Outsourcing Developer's Job
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We're getting firmly into politics now. I'll not go much further. I will ask why a group of people manage to blatently lie during a debate (took me 30 seconds on google to find the statement which one person denied making) and the other group failed to make good on this? It isn't that one party has managed to screw their people and gotten away with it. It's that the other group refuses to actually grow a spine and call them on it. Even the current situation shows this to be the truth. You can lie all you want when the other guy refuses to call you on it and nail you to the wall for it. But get burned really hard once for it and you might stop. And Fiorina needs to be shown for what she is. I don't care that she's a woman (she's played this card.) I care that she is a selfish monster that failed at basic human decency towards employees and can't even manage to use this trait to do well in the business world. And who thought that a well to do company known for quality products buying a dying company known for selling junk would adopt the dead company's business model?
ragnaroknrol wrote:
We're getting firmly into politics now.
Yup.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
It isn't that one party has managed to screw their people and gotten away with it. It's that the other group refuses to actually grow a spine and call them on it. Even the current situation shows this to be the truth. You can lie all you want when the other guy refuses to call you on it and nail you to the wall for it. But get burned really hard once for it and you might stop.
Yup. The past year has demonstrated that the once opposition is just as useless as when they were the minority.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
And Fiorina needs to be shown for what she is. I don't care that she's a woman (she's played this card.) I care that she is a selfish monster that failed at basic human decency towards employees and can't even manage to use this trait to do well in the business world. And who thought that a well to do company known for quality products buying a dying company known for selling junk would adopt the dead company's business model?
There was a time when Bell Labs and HP were the two pre-eminent research companies in the country, maybe in the world. Took the justice dept. to destroy the one; Carly trashed the second all by herself. :laugh:
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Well, we have separate pension and stock. And we are partially vested in pension at 10 yrs and fully at 25 yrs. From what little I know about pensions, they are regulated and they owe me the portion I'm vested for even if they do away with pensions. Of course like you say, they could give it to me in stock and then turn around and make me sell it.
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Well, we have separate pension and stock. And we are partially vested in pension at 10 yrs and fully at 25 yrs. From what little I know about pensions, they are regulated and they owe me the portion I'm vested for even if they do away with pensions. Of course like you say, they could give it to me in stock and then turn around and make me sell it.
The defined benefit plan is regulated by Employee Retirement Investment Security Act of 1974 (ERISA) and the Pension Protection Act of 2006. These are administered by the Emplyee Benefits Security Administration[^] of the Department of Labor. The linked EBSA website has a lot of information on the subject that you may wish to peruse (This is some particularly good info)[^], as it is complex, and your exact rights and protections depend on the type of pension (yours sounds like defined benefit plan, not a 401K). If you do not also have a 401K plan, you should consider protecting yourself with a traditional or Roth IRA. Every little bit helps.
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Has anyone been through a cycle or outsourcing at their company? UPS is in the process of outsourcing coding, unit testing and integration testing to India. They are starting with 10% of projects as pilot phase. For most of the developers on my project, that's the part of development that we enjoy. We put up with requirement, testing and design meetings and tasks, just so we get to write code. Just wandering what we have to look forward to, and if it is worth staying and waiting it out. One of our best developers has left already and looks like others are testing the water.
I have worked with a number of companies that decided to outsource to India, and it has always been a disaster. 1) They are a whole world away, and if you to talk to them, you have to get up at 3 am. 2) If you don't spell out VERY CLEARLY exactly what you want, you won't get it. 3) When we did get results, they were not very good. We ended up reworking alot of the project 4) You better be prepared for a project management nightmare. In the end, the savings gained bu outsourcing is lost in rework and time lost to project managament. In my opinion, go work somewhere that still values quality work and the American worker.
Everything makes sense in someone's mind
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ragnaroknrol wrote:
We're getting firmly into politics now.
Yup.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
It isn't that one party has managed to screw their people and gotten away with it. It's that the other group refuses to actually grow a spine and call them on it. Even the current situation shows this to be the truth. You can lie all you want when the other guy refuses to call you on it and nail you to the wall for it. But get burned really hard once for it and you might stop.
Yup. The past year has demonstrated that the once opposition is just as useless as when they were the minority.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
And Fiorina needs to be shown for what she is. I don't care that she's a woman (she's played this card.) I care that she is a selfish monster that failed at basic human decency towards employees and can't even manage to use this trait to do well in the business world. And who thought that a well to do company known for quality products buying a dying company known for selling junk would adopt the dead company's business model?
There was a time when Bell Labs and HP were the two pre-eminent research companies in the country, maybe in the world. Took the justice dept. to destroy the one; Carly trashed the second all by herself. :laugh:
Funny how quickly the right person can take something good and turn it into complete trash... And just think, she wants to bring this expertise to government! On second thought, maybe that would actually help... Viva la revolucion!
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I have worked with a number of companies that decided to outsource to India, and it has always been a disaster. 1) They are a whole world away, and if you to talk to them, you have to get up at 3 am. 2) If you don't spell out VERY CLEARLY exactly what you want, you won't get it. 3) When we did get results, they were not very good. We ended up reworking alot of the project 4) You better be prepared for a project management nightmare. In the end, the savings gained bu outsourcing is lost in rework and time lost to project managament. In my opinion, go work somewhere that still values quality work and the American worker.
Everything makes sense in someone's mind
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Has anyone been through a cycle or outsourcing at their company? UPS is in the process of outsourcing coding, unit testing and integration testing to India. They are starting with 10% of projects as pilot phase. For most of the developers on my project, that's the part of development that we enjoy. We put up with requirement, testing and design meetings and tasks, just so we get to write code. Just wandering what we have to look forward to, and if it is worth staying and waiting it out. One of our best developers has left already and looks like others are testing the water.
app1dak wrote:
outsourcing at their company
Yes we did that for a bit. Fortunately for us, we didn't have to lose billions to figure out that it was not worthwhile. We only lost 100K and I lost many hours redoing everything that we paid them to do. So now we do not outsource.
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Has anyone been through a cycle or outsourcing at their company? UPS is in the process of outsourcing coding, unit testing and integration testing to India. They are starting with 10% of projects as pilot phase. For most of the developers on my project, that's the part of development that we enjoy. We put up with requirement, testing and design meetings and tasks, just so we get to write code. Just wandering what we have to look forward to, and if it is worth staying and waiting it out. One of our best developers has left already and looks like others are testing the water.
-
Has anyone been through a cycle or outsourcing at their company? UPS is in the process of outsourcing coding, unit testing and integration testing to India. They are starting with 10% of projects as pilot phase. For most of the developers on my project, that's the part of development that we enjoy. We put up with requirement, testing and design meetings and tasks, just so we get to write code. Just wandering what we have to look forward to, and if it is worth staying and waiting it out. One of our best developers has left already and looks like others are testing the water.
I've had to deal with outsourced developers in India and it was an utter nightmare. UPS probably has enough money to fly over there, interview in person and hire decent developers, tho. In which case, I'd say run for it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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On the bright side, are you a good developer? Do you have good communication skills? Can you turn this into an opportunity to take a lead/management position. Your company needs people to manager the offshore groups technically and manegrial wise and that person may be you.
Yeah?? Every person I've seen take that position has burned at the stake because of the failed garbage that came back from off shore. Even in my current job, we had to rework every package that came back just to make it conform to a set of basic standards, and then we had to FIX them all.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007, 2008
But no longer in 2009... -
Yeah?? Every person I've seen take that position has burned at the stake because of the failed garbage that came back from off shore. Even in my current job, we had to rework every package that came back just to make it conform to a set of basic standards, and then we had to FIX them all.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007, 2008
But no longer in 2009...There are some briliant programmers in India, if you dont believe search codeproject and you would see some great articles written by indian programmers in India. The fact that you know people that worked with some crappy developers doesnt make that a fact appliable to every situation. Please understand that I am not saying its an easy job. Working with people of different cultures is not walk in the park. But I speak from experience as I have seen successfull cases. Its really all about management.
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There are some briliant programmers in India, if you dont believe search codeproject and you would see some great articles written by indian programmers in India. The fact that you know people that worked with some crappy developers doesnt make that a fact appliable to every situation. Please understand that I am not saying its an easy job. Working with people of different cultures is not walk in the park. But I speak from experience as I have seen successfull cases. Its really all about management.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
There are some briliant programmers in India
Oh, I don't deny that. I've met a few and they do a fantastic job. But, Corporate America seems to think that these brilliant programmers, and other IT people, grow on trees out there.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
The fact that you know people that worked with some crappy developers doesnt make that a fact appliable to every situation
No, no, no. I didn't say that I know people who have worked with them. I said I worked with them! The number of crappy IT people FAR AND AWAY outnumbers the number of good ones.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Its really all about management.
This is only true to a point. There's too many people out there trying to make a rupee by jumping on the outsourcing bandwagon. So, they hire as many contractors as they can hoping they can do the work that the contract company just won the bid for.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007, 2008
But no longer in 2009... -
I have worked with a number of companies that decided to outsource to India, and it has always been a disaster. 1) They are a whole world away, and if you to talk to them, you have to get up at 3 am. 2) If you don't spell out VERY CLEARLY exactly what you want, you won't get it. 3) When we did get results, they were not very good. We ended up reworking alot of the project 4) You better be prepared for a project management nightmare. In the end, the savings gained bu outsourcing is lost in rework and time lost to project managament. In my opinion, go work somewhere that still values quality work and the American worker.
Everything makes sense in someone's mind
Kevin Marois wrote:
- If you don't spell out VERY CLEARLY exactly what you want, you won't get it.
Doesn't that happen often with every customer and development team?
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail! Books are as useful to a stupid person as a mirror is useful to a blind person. - Chanakya
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I've had to deal with outsourced developers in India and it was an utter nightmare. UPS probably has enough money to fly over there, interview in person and hire decent developers, tho. In which case, I'd say run for it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Unfortunately they contracted to hire the company, not any specific resources, so the contracting company is doing the hiring. We just get atempt to train them on application and business rules. Anyway, thanks for the forum. A lot of sarcastic remarks from the developers (I guess it's the same all over), but a lot of good info too.