Iranian cleric denounces dog owners
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What is the big deal? Different countries have different ways of living. Ok, people in Iran don't have the freedom to own a dog, but I don't have the freedom to enjoy a dog-meat dish in the USA. Did you see any beef sandwich sold in India (MacDonald and Burger King will never prosper there, I guess)?
Joker wrote: What is the big deal? Different countries have different ways of living. Don't care at all. I think it's a little silly, but if that's the way they want it, they can have it that way. Until of course they start flying airplanes into buildings in someone elses country to protest 'Western lifestyles'. Then we start playin' spanky-bottom. Paul Oss
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Joker wrote: MacDonald and Burger King will never prosper there, I guess I have worked with some Indian contractors and when the Macdonalds in Bombay opened people used to get dressed up to eat there ! I don't know if they sold beefburgers though Elaine (cosmopolitan fluffy tigress) Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
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Ok, people in Iran don't have the freedom to own a dog, but I don't have the freedom to enjoy a dog-meat dish in the USA. Right, but in the US, the "freedom to enjoy a dog-meat dish" is prohibited because it is considered cruelty to an animal that we relate to. (Feel free to question killing a pig for meat, since pigs are actually quite intelligent, like dogs. But this is "okay" because we tend not to relate with pigs.) Hence, it's reasonable to say that your freedom ends where cruelty begins. But owning a dog is cruel to who? Further, the cleric is arguing that people who have dogs have to get rid of them ("Honey, I know you love Fluffy, but the government says we can't keep her.") Which seems a little cruel. Preventing dog ownership seems like a rather odd battle to fight. Further, you assume the argument that Iranian dog owners are not part of the culture, whereas Muslim clerics are some sort of authority on Iranian culture. I'm half-tempted to argue that the Muslim cleric is the foreign force which is acting to suppress the new Iranian dog-owning culture - in which case, you would have to support the Iranian dog owners against that culture-disrespecting cleric. And, of course, there is the issue that hard-line Islamic clerics always seem to go over-the-top. It's not enough to say, "Muslims should not own dogs". It's not enough to say, "Owning a dog makes you a bad Muslim." No, no, they have to denounce dog ownership and the police will come and get you if you own a dog. ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion
Brit wrote: But owning a dog is cruel to who? I don't know how the iranians will answer this question, but off the top of my head: owning a dog is cruel to the millions of starving children. I don't really enjoy dog-meat. My point is, as I already said, different countries have different ways of living. There are plenty of cruelty in the USA, but people grew up here don't notice.
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Joker wrote: What is the big deal? Different countries have different ways of living. Don't care at all. I think it's a little silly, but if that's the way they want it, they can have it that way. Until of course they start flying airplanes into buildings in someone elses country to protest 'Western lifestyles'. Then we start playin' spanky-bottom. Paul Oss
Paul Oss wrote: Until of course they start flying airplanes into buildings in someone elses country to protest 'Western lifestyles'. Then we start playin' spanky-bottom. If I remember correctly, they (the iranians) never crashed any plane in any western countries. The US on the other hand shotdown their commericial passenger plane flying outside the US. Of course it just a "human error" all of us should forget.
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Paul Oss wrote: Until of course they start flying airplanes into buildings in someone elses country to protest 'Western lifestyles'. Then we start playin' spanky-bottom. If I remember correctly, they (the iranians) never crashed any plane in any western countries. The US on the other hand shotdown their commericial passenger plane flying outside the US. Of course it just a "human error" all of us should forget.
Joker wrote: If I remember correctly, they (the iranians) never crashed any plane in any western countries. I never said they did. I was simply making a statement about the general concept of intervening in someone elses lifestyle. Joker wrote: The US on the other hand shotdown their commericial passenger plane flying outside the US. Of course it just a "human error" all of us should forget. I'm going to stay out of the never-ending spiral of 'moral equivalency' arguments here. Paul Oss
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Joker wrote: but I don't have the freedom to enjoy a dog-meat dish in the USA. The new McFido! :) Jeremy Falcon Imputek "Oh no there was a knife in that kitchen drawer and I cut myself - please remove the kitchen." - David Wulff
Jeremy Falcon wrote: The new McFido! Chihuahua McNuggets? :-) Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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Paul Oss wrote: Until of course they start flying airplanes into buildings in someone elses country to protest 'Western lifestyles'. Then we start playin' spanky-bottom. If I remember correctly, they (the iranians) never crashed any plane in any western countries. The US on the other hand shotdown their commericial passenger plane flying outside the US. Of course it just a "human error" all of us should forget.
But they did invade US territory and take hostages. They held them for 444 days. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
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Brit wrote: But owning a dog is cruel to who? I don't know how the iranians will answer this question, but off the top of my head: owning a dog is cruel to the millions of starving children. I don't really enjoy dog-meat. My point is, as I already said, different countries have different ways of living. There are plenty of cruelty in the USA, but people grew up here don't notice.
I don't hear a call for pig owners to be arrested. EDIT: And if I did, I would call that person SILLY too. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
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Joker wrote: MacDonald and Burger King will never prosper there, I guess I have worked with some Indian contractors and when the Macdonalds in Bombay opened people used to get dressed up to eat there ! I don't know if they sold beefburgers though Elaine (cosmopolitan fluffy tigress) Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
Trollslayer wrote: I have worked with some Indian contractors and when the Macdonalds in Bombay opened people used to get dressed up to eat there ! I worked with an Indian programmer here in Atlanta who was very enamored of Western culture, and loved hamburgers. When his Mom in India found out, she gave him a hard time when he returned home for a visit, as I believe cows are considered sacred by Hindus since they were Krishna's pet (at least that's how he explained it to me). He justified his stance by explaining to her, "It's okay, Mom - these are Christian cows... Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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Joker wrote: MacDonald and Burger King will never prosper there, I guess I have worked with some Indian contractors and when the Macdonalds in Bombay opened people used to get dressed up to eat there ! I don't know if they sold beefburgers though Elaine (cosmopolitan fluffy tigress) Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
Trollslayer wrote: I don't know if they sold beefburgers though No there are big signs in Macdonalds' in India saying "We don't serve any kind of beef". The mistakes made in this API make me realise that Microsoft has become big enough that it can shelter morons. If anyone working for me wrote anything this bad and tried to release it, I would kill them and display the body as a warning to the rest of the team. - Christian Graus about C# - GDI+
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What is the big deal? Different countries have different ways of living. Ok, people in Iran don't have the freedom to own a dog, but I don't have the freedom to enjoy a dog-meat dish in the USA. Did you see any beef sandwich sold in India (MacDonald and Burger King will never prosper there, I guess)?
Not quite the same thing. Humans and dogs have an almost symbiotic relationship that goes back several hundred thousand years. Pre- history pre-civilisation pre- damn near anything. Cattle , chickens, pigs, goats, etc.. have been historically a food item for most humans but with rare exception dogs were not raised as food. They were eaten at times by various civilisations but were not domesticated as a food animal. They have a particular attraction to humans not shared by any other animal. Theya re animal companions - they are helpers - they are special. Almost all other food restrictions are based on religion and as such are easily explained ( and generally stupid ) but the restriction on eating dog meat is almost as ingrained as that on cannibilism. Yea it happens but rarely. Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
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But they did invade US territory and take hostages. They held them for 444 days. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
Tim Smith wrote: But they did invade US territory and take hostages. They held them for 444 days. That is true. Do you consider it a more serious crime than assasinating another country's elected leader? Is it alright if the crime is done by a democratic country? I am not defending or attacking anyone, just want o point out some hypocrisy here.
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I don't hear a call for pig owners to be arrested. EDIT: And if I did, I would call that person SILLY too. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
What is your point? Do you mean it is silly to arrest either dog owners or pig owners? Do you not agree that it is silly to allow poeple to kill pigs for food but not allowing them to kill dogs for food (and cows)? I don't understand your logic, may be we don't have an argument after all. ;P
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Joker wrote: If I remember correctly, they (the iranians) never crashed any plane in any western countries. I never said they did. I was simply making a statement about the general concept of intervening in someone elses lifestyle. Joker wrote: The US on the other hand shotdown their commericial passenger plane flying outside the US. Of course it just a "human error" all of us should forget. I'm going to stay out of the never-ending spiral of 'moral equivalency' arguments here. Paul Oss
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Once againt proving that the US doesn't corner the market on morons. :laugh: Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
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Not quite the same thing. Humans and dogs have an almost symbiotic relationship that goes back several hundred thousand years. Pre- history pre-civilisation pre- damn near anything. Cattle , chickens, pigs, goats, etc.. have been historically a food item for most humans but with rare exception dogs were not raised as food. They were eaten at times by various civilisations but were not domesticated as a food animal. They have a particular attraction to humans not shared by any other animal. Theya re animal companions - they are helpers - they are special. Almost all other food restrictions are based on religion and as such are easily explained ( and generally stupid ) but the restriction on eating dog meat is almost as ingrained as that on cannibilism. Yea it happens but rarely. Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
Richard Stringer wrote: Not quite the same thing. Humans and dogs have an almost symbiotic relationship that goes back several hundred thousand years. What you said are absolutely true if you are restricting your "civilisations" to those of western countries only. People in the west treat dogs as their family members, but you call a person a dog in another country (say, China), it might be the biggest insult. I am not really a dog-eater, just using this to make a point.
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Trollslayer wrote: I have worked with some Indian contractors and when the Macdonalds in Bombay opened people used to get dressed up to eat there ! I worked with an Indian programmer here in Atlanta who was very enamored of Western culture, and loved hamburgers. When his Mom in India found out, she gave him a hard time when he returned home for a visit, as I believe cows are considered sacred by Hindus since they were Krishna's pet (at least that's how he explained it to me). He justified his stance by explaining to her, "It's okay, Mom - these are Christian cows... Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
Christopher Duncan wrote: "It's okay, Mom - these are Christian cows... :-D Something to think about next time i'm at Mickey-D's...
Shog9 ------
And on the pedestal, these words appear: "My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings, Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!" Nothing beside remains.
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Richard Stringer wrote: Not quite the same thing. Humans and dogs have an almost symbiotic relationship that goes back several hundred thousand years. What you said are absolutely true if you are restricting your "civilisations" to those of western countries only. People in the west treat dogs as their family members, but you call a person a dog in another country (say, China), it might be the biggest insult. I am not really a dog-eater, just using this to make a point.
Joker wrote: but you call a person a dog in another country (say, China), it might be the biggest insult. Well, to be honest, it's not exactly considered a polite complement here either...
Shog9 ------
And on the pedestal, these words appear: "My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings, Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!" Nothing beside remains.
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Paul Oss wrote: Until of course they start flying airplanes into buildings in someone elses country to protest 'Western lifestyles'. Then we start playin' spanky-bottom. If I remember correctly, they (the iranians) never crashed any plane in any western countries. The US on the other hand shotdown their commericial passenger plane flying outside the US. Of course it just a "human error" all of us should forget.
Joker wrote: The US on the other hand shotdown their commericial passenger plane flying outside the US. Of course it just a "human error" all of us should forget. Before this one gets out of hand, a 'smart' radar system told the ships captain that an ascending civilian Airbus was a descending military fighter aircraft. He was in a no win situation there, this wasn't a 'fire at them anyway' situation. I would hate to have to make that decision. Elaine Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
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What is the big deal? Different countries have different ways of living. Ok, people in Iran don't have the freedom to own a dog, but I don't have the freedom to enjoy a dog-meat dish in the USA. Did you see any beef sandwich sold in India (MacDonald and Burger King will never prosper there, I guess)?
Joker wrote: I don't have the freedom to enjoy a dog-meat dish in the USA Just try the "special of the day" at some of the seedier establishments in your area.