A reply to the WH letter
-
Hi Chris, I know we differ on this stuff... but hopefully neither of us takes it personally.. :) I completely agree with pt#1 -- and from what I can tell Bush and the Justice Dept are; they're trying and arresting these CEOs/officers that are breaking the law. It's going to take time to take out the garbage... Pt #2 -- you probably won't agree with this, but this is where the war comes in: short-term, wars decrease confidence -- long term (after the war's won) confidence will increase without the threat of a wacko running around with nukes who hates Western countries. If Saddam wasn't threatening the US, he'd be threatening Europe or others... How would confidence be if we had an administration that does nothing but talk when our property/people is attacked or threatened? And I'm not talking about former administrations here. What if we take a wait-and-see attitude on Saddam and he kills 1 million+ citizens? Talk about the stock-market tanking on that one... About the 2 citizens, I have a big problem with how they've handled that -- not because they're terrorists, but because they're US citizens, and therefore they DO have rights that non-US terrorists do not. These two must have a trial by jury with good representation, just like if a US-citizen committed any other crime. "If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it." -- Jeremiah 18:7-10 (God, commenting on the value of the United Nations)
Chris Hambleton wrote: What if we take a wait-and-see attitude on Saddam you mean like we've done for the past 10 years? he hasn't killed a million of us yet. why stop with Iraq? there are plenty of other countries we officially Don't Like. let's go take care of business - just like Russia and Israel do. let's show them what our big shiny tanks can do. that'll surely stop them from wanting to kill us in ways we can't defend against. our big shiny tanks aren't going to stop arabs from deciding that the US is a big soft fat target that deserves to be hit, though other things might (things only a cowardly america-hating liberal would even mention). so while we're over there, giving arabs more reason to hate us, they can very well be over here poking holes in our soft white underbelly. no, they can't touch us militarily, but they aren't fighting our military. ask the DC police if they think they can catch all the terrorist threats that might pop up. do you have that much faith in our own civil defenses ? i don't. as you saw with the furor over Falwell's inane comments, the rest of the world is just waiting for something to send it into a frenzy. i feel that bush is leading this country into something truly horrible. -c
Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw
-
Chris Hambleton wrote: Are they citizens of the US? No. true Chris Hambleton wrote: Are non-US citizens entitled to US rights? No. Yes if they are being held by American troops or if they are in American territories they are subject to the laws of said territory Chris Hambleton wrote: Are these prisoners therefore entitled to US rights? No. Yes as they are held by American troops ( I'm not sure who owns the land ) but if they are prosoners of war then they are subject to both American prisoner of war laws and things like the geneva convention. If they are not prisoners of war they are subject to American law as they are being held by the Americans Chris Hambleton wrote: Would you rather have these terrorists free with their rights and causing others to lose theirs? No ones talking of freedom they are talking petty things like proof and trials. If you have them use them. (like their freedom to breath) It's just so easy to tell your a christian. Just another Hypocritical Murderer waiting for a chance to kill someone in the name of a book An before u start no I'm not a christian and no I'm not of any other religion. I'm probably an atheist but the whole things just too dull for me to even bother faking taking sides on one way or the other. And yes I know I'm doomed but then I like getting drunk. It's fun. In that respect I'm in the same boat as anna as far u'r lot are concerned. Anthony www.TonysOpenSource.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
Anthony Roach wrote: It's just so easy to tell your a christian. Just another Hypocritical Murderer waiting for a chance to kill someone in the name of a book That's great, Anthony. Really drove your point home with that one. Just stating your arguments wouldn't have made you seem depressed and bitter enough, i agree.
Shog9 ------
No one's immune now, from a world of problems No one's exempt now, from a world of pain That's the way that it goes when you're down here with the rest of us...
-
Anthony Roach wrote: It's just so easy to tell your a christian. Just another Hypocritical Murderer waiting for a chance to kill someone in the name of a book That's great, Anthony. Really drove your point home with that one. Just stating your arguments wouldn't have made you seem depressed and bitter enough, i agree.
Shog9 ------
No one's immune now, from a world of problems No one's exempt now, from a world of pain That's the way that it goes when you're down here with the rest of us...
:-D Anthony www.TonysOpenSource.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
-
FYI, I didn't write the letter, I re-posted it from Boortz.com... Can you cite specific examples of how Bush has "destroyed the economy"?? Most economic indicators have been on their way up for the last 2 quarters. Do you have specific examples, or are you just quoting from what you read in the managed newspapers/media? Also, what can the President do other than raise/lower taxes & regulation? Usually, raising taxes hurts the economy -- has he done that? You can apply this same argument to Clinton -- he ran around saying that he had created this great economy. Granted, the economy was good during his presidency, but what had HE directly done to help it? Have you thought that maybe the economy isn't really controlled by the government as much as the population and it's confidence? Everyone's concerned about the price of gas going up b/c of the war with Iraq -- but most likely, the prices will drop after the US starts winning b/c of increased confidence. These same things happened before and after the Gulf war -- the prices went up before the US intervened, and dropped during and after the conflict... Concerning the prisoners and their rights: Are they citizens of the US? No. Are non-US citizens entitled to US rights? No. Are these prisoners therefore entitled to US rights? No. Would you rather have these terrorists free with their rights and causing others to lose theirs? (like their freedom to breath) "If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it." -- Jeremiah 18:7-10 (God, commenting on the value of the United Nations)
Chris Hambleton wrote: Also, what can the President do other than raise/lower taxes & regulation? Actually the President can't raise or lower taxes. That function is left to Congress. Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
-
i love when people ask this one: Chris Hambleton wrote: Also, what can the President do other than raise/lower taxes & regulation? Usually, raising taxes hurts the economy -- has he done that? he could put some teeth into corporate accounting rules. this would at least help convince people that there's hope that their own company isn't going to end up folding because of shady accounting practices. Chris Hambleton wrote: Have you thought that maybe the economy isn't really controlled by the government as much as the population and it's confidence? then the govt should do something to restore that confidence. see above for one example. Chris Hambleton wrote: Concerning the prisoners and their rights: Are they citizens of the US? At least one or two of them are, yes. -c
Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw
Chris Losinger wrote: he could put some teeth into corporate accounting rules. this would at least help convince people that there's hope that their own company isn't going to end up folding because of shady accounting practices. And just where in the Constitution does it give the President the power to create/change/enforce laws. I thought that this power lies with Congress and the Judiciary branch. Of course I could be wrong. Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
-
i love when people ask this one: Chris Hambleton wrote: Also, what can the President do other than raise/lower taxes & regulation? Usually, raising taxes hurts the economy -- has he done that? he could put some teeth into corporate accounting rules. this would at least help convince people that there's hope that their own company isn't going to end up folding because of shady accounting practices. Chris Hambleton wrote: Have you thought that maybe the economy isn't really controlled by the government as much as the population and it's confidence? then the govt should do something to restore that confidence. see above for one example. Chris Hambleton wrote: Concerning the prisoners and their rights: Are they citizens of the US? At least one or two of them are, yes. -c
Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw
Chris Losinger wrote: he could put some teeth into corporate accounting rules. We need laws not rules and initiation of new laws would come from the legislature not the executive branch. The executive branch (in this case) enforces the laws and have been doing so with Enron, AA, MCI, AOL, ImClone, etc... What more should they be doing? So far everybody sentenced is getting the max allowed by current law. In addition, I think most of our economy's problems stem from the DOT.COM bust and additional government spending due to post September 11th security initiatives. IMO very little of the current issues revolve around corporate accounting scandals.
Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap
-
Chris Losinger wrote: he could put some teeth into corporate accounting rules. this would at least help convince people that there's hope that their own company isn't going to end up folding because of shady accounting practices. And just where in the Constitution does it give the President the power to create/change/enforce laws. I thought that this power lies with Congress and the Judiciary branch. Of course I could be wrong. Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
the president appoints the people in charge of the SEC. the SEC certainly has the authority to make life difficult for companies who don't follow the rules. -c
Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw
-
--------->Soapbox --------->Spellchecker --------->History --------->Real world
Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap
-
Chris Losinger wrote: he could put some teeth into corporate accounting rules. We need laws not rules and initiation of new laws would come from the legislature not the executive branch. The executive branch (in this case) enforces the laws and have been doing so with Enron, AA, MCI, AOL, ImClone, etc... What more should they be doing? So far everybody sentenced is getting the max allowed by current law. In addition, I think most of our economy's problems stem from the DOT.COM bust and additional government spending due to post September 11th security initiatives. IMO very little of the current issues revolve around corporate accounting scandals.
Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap
Mike Mullikin wrote: We need laws not rules and initiation of new laws would come from the legislature not the executive branch. yes, of course. still, the president is able to command congress to start working on this or that legislation (they don't have to listen, but they usually do). Mike Mullikin wrote: In addition, I think most of our economy's problems stem from the DOT.COM bust you can't deny that the problems with Enron, WorldCom, Xerox, etc. had an effect. maybe that was all unpreventable, maybe not. but the president is nearly silent on the issue. maybe he forgets why his daddy lost in '92. -c
Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw
-
FYI, I didn't write the letter, I re-posted it from Boortz.com... Can you cite specific examples of how Bush has "destroyed the economy"?? Most economic indicators have been on their way up for the last 2 quarters. Do you have specific examples, or are you just quoting from what you read in the managed newspapers/media? Also, what can the President do other than raise/lower taxes & regulation? Usually, raising taxes hurts the economy -- has he done that? You can apply this same argument to Clinton -- he ran around saying that he had created this great economy. Granted, the economy was good during his presidency, but what had HE directly done to help it? Have you thought that maybe the economy isn't really controlled by the government as much as the population and it's confidence? Everyone's concerned about the price of gas going up b/c of the war with Iraq -- but most likely, the prices will drop after the US starts winning b/c of increased confidence. These same things happened before and after the Gulf war -- the prices went up before the US intervened, and dropped during and after the conflict... Concerning the prisoners and their rights: Are they citizens of the US? No. Are non-US citizens entitled to US rights? No. Are these prisoners therefore entitled to US rights? No. Would you rather have these terrorists free with their rights and causing others to lose theirs? (like their freedom to breath) "If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it." -- Jeremiah 18:7-10 (God, commenting on the value of the United Nations)
Chris Hambleton wrote: Concerning the prisoners and their rights: Are they citizens of the US? No. Are non-US citizens entitled to US rights? No. Are these prisoners therefore entitled to US rights? No. I guess it will be OK for you if another country decided to take away rights from US prisoners. Don't tell me americans have never been captured elsewhere. ;P I could argue other things with you, may be another time.
-
the president appoints the people in charge of the SEC. the SEC certainly has the authority to make life difficult for companies who don't follow the rules. -c
Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw
For you edification. From the SEC website: "The Securities and Exchange Commission has five Commissioners who are appointed by the President of the United States with the advice and consent of the Senate. Their terms last five years and are staggered so that one Commissioner's term ends on June 5 of each year. To ensure that the Commission remains non-partisan, no more than three Commissioners may belong to the same political party. The President also designates one of the Commissioners as Chairman, the SEC's top executive." Now you do the math. GW has been in office for how long ? Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
-
For you edification. From the SEC website: "The Securities and Exchange Commission has five Commissioners who are appointed by the President of the United States with the advice and consent of the Senate. Their terms last five years and are staggered so that one Commissioner's term ends on June 5 of each year. To ensure that the Commission remains non-partisan, no more than three Commissioners may belong to the same political party. The President also designates one of the Commissioners as Chairman, the SEC's top executive." Now you do the math. GW has been in office for how long ? Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
very nice. now who is Harvey Pitt, what's his job and who appointed him? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/05/08/national/main290121.shtml[^] A: Head of the SEC, appointed by GWB. and, if you think the pres has no ability to create legislation, you obviously haven't been watching. the pres is completely able to create and send legislation to congress; and congress has no problems approving whatever nonsense comes their way. again, USAPATRIOT. -c
Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw
-
very nice. now who is Harvey Pitt, what's his job and who appointed him? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/05/08/national/main290121.shtml[^] A: Head of the SEC, appointed by GWB. and, if you think the pres has no ability to create legislation, you obviously haven't been watching. the pres is completely able to create and send legislation to congress; and congress has no problems approving whatever nonsense comes their way. again, USAPATRIOT. -c
Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw
Chris Losinger wrote: A: Head of the SEC, appointed by GWB. And who was head of the SEC back when all this crooked accounting was getting underway ? Do you think that it started when GW was inaugurated ? Nope its been going on for 6-7 years in most cases. Chris Losinger wrote: and, if you think the pres has no ability to create legislation, you obviously haven't been watching. the pres is completely able to create and send legislation to congress; and congress has no problems approving whatever nonsense comes their way. again, USAPATRIOT. Congress and the Senate. Richard USAPATRIOT ( hell yes ) America Love it or leave it. They can pry my gun out of my dead hands. Full speed ahead and Damn the torpedos. Lets drop a big one and we'll suprise them. Better Dead than Red. If you can read this you are too damn close When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
-
Chris Losinger wrote: A: Head of the SEC, appointed by GWB. And who was head of the SEC back when all this crooked accounting was getting underway ? Do you think that it started when GW was inaugurated ? Nope its been going on for 6-7 years in most cases. Chris Losinger wrote: and, if you think the pres has no ability to create legislation, you obviously haven't been watching. the pres is completely able to create and send legislation to congress; and congress has no problems approving whatever nonsense comes their way. again, USAPATRIOT. Congress and the Senate. Richard USAPATRIOT ( hell yes ) America Love it or leave it. They can pry my gun out of my dead hands. Full speed ahead and Damn the torpedos. Lets drop a big one and we'll suprise them. Better Dead than Red. If you can read this you are too damn close When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
Richard Stringer wrote: And who was head of the SEC back when all this crooked accounting was getting underway ? who cares? this discussion is about what the president can do to help now, not what someone did five years ago. blame fixes nothing. -c
Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw
-
very nice. now who is Harvey Pitt, what's his job and who appointed him? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/05/08/national/main290121.shtml[^] A: Head of the SEC, appointed by GWB. and, if you think the pres has no ability to create legislation, you obviously haven't been watching. the pres is completely able to create and send legislation to congress; and congress has no problems approving whatever nonsense comes their way. again, USAPATRIOT. -c
Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw
Just another little fact: "WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. Senate report released Monday found "systemic and catastrophic failure" by the Securities and Exchange Commission in regulation of failed energy trader Enron Corp. . The 127-page report by the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee blasted the SEC for failing to detect dubious business practices at Houston-based Enron, for example, by failing to review any of Enron's post-1997 annual reports. " 1997- 1998 -1999 -2000 ( nothing zip nada Clinton ) The along comes George and they get caught. Credit where its due my man Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
-
Just another little fact: "WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. Senate report released Monday found "systemic and catastrophic failure" by the Securities and Exchange Commission in regulation of failed energy trader Enron Corp. . The 127-page report by the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee blasted the SEC for failing to detect dubious business practices at Houston-based Enron, for example, by failing to review any of Enron's post-1997 annual reports. " 1997- 1998 -1999 -2000 ( nothing zip nada Clinton ) The along comes George and they get caught. Credit where its due my man Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
i'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that Skilling and Lay excercised $2M in stock options one month before the company posted $638M in losses and "$1.2 billion reduction in shareholder equity" (10/16/01, a year into GWB's term). 3 weeks after this, the SEC investigation started. in other words, the fucking thing fell apart and the rats got caught trying to get out. before that, everything looked fine, even to GWB. he must've approved, because if there was so much corruption and horribleness going on, GWB, being the honorable and brilliant man that he is, should've been all over Enron just as soon as he got in office. if it's all so clear to you, why didn't GWB see it?? it's Clinton's fault for not doing anything, but it's not GWBs fault for not doing anything? Pure Partisan B.S. i'm dying to find out - why didn't he do anything until the shit hit the fan? enlighten me. -c
Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw
-
Richard Stringer wrote: And who was head of the SEC back when all this crooked accounting was getting underway ? who cares? this discussion is about what the president can do to help now, not what someone did five years ago. blame fixes nothing. -c
Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw
So whats the problem. Under GW we have eliminated Enron, Auther Anderson, Global Crossing, and a few others who's name escapes me at the time. So where is the good word for the Pres ? Of course all we see on TV is shows like "Donahue" parading out the poor broke Enron employees whos pensions and 401's are trashed and they cry and weep. The idea being brougt forth is that all was rosy under Bill and then George came along and wrecked everything. NOT SO. What exactly do you want from GW ? He is cleaning up the mess as fast as he can - which is a complete change from the previous 8 years I might add. There is nothing else he can do to stimulate the economy except to continue to press for tax cuts. And of course there is a certain political party who always starts the dialog on taxes with the quote: "Tax cuts for the very rich " or show grandma being pushed down the hill in her wheelchair sans Social Security. Oh well. Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
-
So whats the problem. Under GW we have eliminated Enron, Auther Anderson, Global Crossing, and a few others who's name escapes me at the time. So where is the good word for the Pres ? Of course all we see on TV is shows like "Donahue" parading out the poor broke Enron employees whos pensions and 401's are trashed and they cry and weep. The idea being brougt forth is that all was rosy under Bill and then George came along and wrecked everything. NOT SO. What exactly do you want from GW ? He is cleaning up the mess as fast as he can - which is a complete change from the previous 8 years I might add. There is nothing else he can do to stimulate the economy except to continue to press for tax cuts. And of course there is a certain political party who always starts the dialog on taxes with the quote: "Tax cuts for the very rich " or show grandma being pushed down the hill in her wheelchair sans Social Security. Oh well. Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
Richard Stringer wrote: What exactly do you want from GW ? i'd like it if he could get his lapdogs in the congress to enact some legislation to prevent Enron/WorldCom from happening again. sure, a lot of the current situation was caused by the .Com bubble, but a lot of it was also caused by the lack of investor confidence resulting from these accounting issues. if he can make put some faith back in corporate principles, maybe investors would start investing, instead of running for the hills. then i'd like it if he'd take the $200 billion that they're estimating Iraq will cost (and govt. estimates are always low) and put it towards this country in ways that don't require us to kill people. but, i don't expect any of that. -c
Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw
-
Excellent reply!
Shog9 ------
No one's immune now, from a world of problems No one's exempt now, from a world of pain That's the way that it goes when you're down here with the rest of us...
-
Joker wrote: Which bothers you more, the spelling errors or the truth in my statements? Hmm... tough choice. I can't say i'm bothered too much by spelling errors, i make so many myself that i've become used to them by now. But, although it's certainly a pity you don't have a job, i can't say it's something that will be keeping me up at night either; out of sight, out of mind, etc. :-O If i wasn't limited to those two choices, i'd say what bothered me the most was that your post seemed as though it was pandering too much to the complaints of certain humorless and misinformed people on an earlier thread...
Shog9 ------
No one's immune now, from a world of problems No one's exempt now, from a world of pain That's the way that it goes when you're down here with the rest of us...