Question for Kindle Owners
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Hey folks, I was given a kindle for Christmas but I am not sure I really want it or it's cousin the nook[^]. My biggest concern/question is do you really 'own' the ebooks you buy? Once I am done with an ebook can I give it as a gift or re-sale it? I read about 30 non-programming books a year and I rarely keep them; I usually give them away or trade them in at a used book store. I am just looking to see if it will fit my way of doing things before I pass judgement and ship it back.
And above all things, never think that you're not good enough yourself. A man should never think that. My belief is that in life people will take you at your own reckoning. --Isaac Asimov Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
If you think the Kindle is crippled in that you cannot lend/sell your used books then consider that the nook only works for 1 publisher B&N. Oh and non DRM books of course. eReaders and the publishing industry have not come up with a viable business model yet. IMHO it is the software that will supply the core solution, I use mobipocket but cannot buy from US sites - go figure!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Thanks for the link Drew, this and some other stuff I ran into pretty much makes me think that I'd have zero use for the thing. Too bad, it is an interesting bit of hardware.
And above all things, never think that you're not good enough yourself. A man should never think that. My belief is that in life people will take you at your own reckoning. --Isaac Asimov Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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If you think the Kindle is crippled in that you cannot lend/sell your used books then consider that the nook only works for 1 publisher B&N. Oh and non DRM books of course. eReaders and the publishing industry have not come up with a viable business model yet. IMHO it is the software that will supply the core solution, I use mobipocket but cannot buy from US sites - go figure!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
What is even more insane for me is that the DRM is tied to name and Credit Card, that should be ridiculously easy to crack.
And above all things, never think that you're not good enough yourself. A man should never think that. My belief is that in life people will take you at your own reckoning. --Isaac Asimov Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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Hey folks, I was given a kindle for Christmas but I am not sure I really want it or it's cousin the nook[^]. My biggest concern/question is do you really 'own' the ebooks you buy? Once I am done with an ebook can I give it as a gift or re-sale it? I read about 30 non-programming books a year and I rarely keep them; I usually give them away or trade them in at a used book store. I am just looking to see if it will fit my way of doing things before I pass judgement and ship it back.
And above all things, never think that you're not good enough yourself. A man should never think that. My belief is that in life people will take you at your own reckoning. --Isaac Asimov Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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I'd give a pass on the nook. The reviews are more or less universal in saying that the current firmware is garbage.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
Aside from the firmware, my concern is about actually owning the books I purchase. Since I'm not one accumulate cruft that I won't use I'd rather have the ability to give it away or resale it. From all I've read about the DRM and licensing on these e-book readers plus Amazon and B&N it looks like they are just licensing the book with very restrictive rights. If this is the path book publishers are headed down then I can picture a future where I never 'buy' another book.
And above all things, never think that you're not good enough yourself. A man should never think that. My belief is that in life people will take you at your own reckoning. --Isaac Asimov Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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Aside from the firmware, my concern is about actually owning the books I purchase. Since I'm not one accumulate cruft that I won't use I'd rather have the ability to give it away or resale it. From all I've read about the DRM and licensing on these e-book readers plus Amazon and B&N it looks like they are just licensing the book with very restrictive rights. If this is the path book publishers are headed down then I can picture a future where I never 'buy' another book.
And above all things, never think that you're not good enough yourself. A man should never think that. My belief is that in life people will take you at your own reckoning. --Isaac Asimov Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
I already don't buy before something between a quick scan and a light evaluation (latter for technical books). I have a PDF of an o'Reilly pub that would cost me R500 to buy locally, where I 'worked' through 800 pages in two days, because a lot of it was fluff. If I could, I would contribute pro rata, maybe R100, but I'm glad to have not bought the book.
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Hey folks, I was given a kindle for Christmas but I am not sure I really want it or it's cousin the nook[^]. My biggest concern/question is do you really 'own' the ebooks you buy? Once I am done with an ebook can I give it as a gift or re-sale it? I read about 30 non-programming books a year and I rarely keep them; I usually give them away or trade them in at a used book store. I am just looking to see if it will fit my way of doing things before I pass judgement and ship it back.
And above all things, never think that you're not good enough yourself. A man should never think that. My belief is that in life people will take you at your own reckoning. --Isaac Asimov Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
I thought it was obvious to everyone that DRM isn't just to prevent piracy but resale.
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I thought it was obvious to everyone that DRM isn't just to prevent piracy but resale.
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Hey folks, I was given a kindle for Christmas but I am not sure I really want it or it's cousin the nook[^]. My biggest concern/question is do you really 'own' the ebooks you buy? Once I am done with an ebook can I give it as a gift or re-sale it? I read about 30 non-programming books a year and I rarely keep them; I usually give them away or trade them in at a used book store. I am just looking to see if it will fit my way of doing things before I pass judgement and ship it back.
And above all things, never think that you're not good enough yourself. A man should never think that. My belief is that in life people will take you at your own reckoning. --Isaac Asimov Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
I own two Kindles. Got the first one when they were announced and the second last year for my daughter. Highly recommended. If you bought the Kindle just for reference books then I would say send it back. It isn’t suited for this. While there is a search feature, nothing beats flipping through pages. It also renders diagrams, screen shots and the like poorly. The bigger DX might do better but I doubt it. You also can’t loan your books out (give them away, really. They never come back). You can, however share them amongst your family. You can link multiple Kindles to a single credit card and they all stay in sync with one another. As pointed out in another thread, there is also a PC and an iPhone reader. As a device for reading fiction, it is wonderful. I find it difficult to read a normal book anymore. It’s like the convenience of an mp3 collection over vinyl. You give up the trophies on the wall, and the ability to loan to friends, but really, the books are just clutter, and at 5 bucks a book, my friends can buy their own. You can even rationalize the cost of the thing if you consider what the value of all that space is you’re using to hold your giant paperback collection. I love the fact that I can carry every book I own, and every book I could ever want to own, in a device smaller than a paperback. The writing is on the wall for the mass market bookstore. Just take a look at the music and video market. I used to hang out in several of the local record shops and it was great. Now, I can’t even buy a CD at Best Buy that isn’t in the top 10. All the video rental places are closing down. The game exchange shops will follow soon. Bookstores are next. The avid book readers (the one’s that spend the money that keeps book sellers and writers in business) are switching to e-books. You can’t justify the existence of a book store just to sell the top ten best sellers that the general public consumes. Once the critical mass is hit, it will be over. I also doubt you will see DRM free mass market books any time soon (The Kindle does work with DRM free titles, btw). The data files are too small. You could literally copy a publisher’s entire base of intellectual property in a few files. Amazon does support self published works, however. Perhaps this is the future. Like the music industry, the writers will cut out the middle man.
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I own two Kindles. Got the first one when they were announced and the second last year for my daughter. Highly recommended. If you bought the Kindle just for reference books then I would say send it back. It isn’t suited for this. While there is a search feature, nothing beats flipping through pages. It also renders diagrams, screen shots and the like poorly. The bigger DX might do better but I doubt it. You also can’t loan your books out (give them away, really. They never come back). You can, however share them amongst your family. You can link multiple Kindles to a single credit card and they all stay in sync with one another. As pointed out in another thread, there is also a PC and an iPhone reader. As a device for reading fiction, it is wonderful. I find it difficult to read a normal book anymore. It’s like the convenience of an mp3 collection over vinyl. You give up the trophies on the wall, and the ability to loan to friends, but really, the books are just clutter, and at 5 bucks a book, my friends can buy their own. You can even rationalize the cost of the thing if you consider what the value of all that space is you’re using to hold your giant paperback collection. I love the fact that I can carry every book I own, and every book I could ever want to own, in a device smaller than a paperback. The writing is on the wall for the mass market bookstore. Just take a look at the music and video market. I used to hang out in several of the local record shops and it was great. Now, I can’t even buy a CD at Best Buy that isn’t in the top 10. All the video rental places are closing down. The game exchange shops will follow soon. Bookstores are next. The avid book readers (the one’s that spend the money that keeps book sellers and writers in business) are switching to e-books. You can’t justify the existence of a book store just to sell the top ten best sellers that the general public consumes. Once the critical mass is hit, it will be over. I also doubt you will see DRM free mass market books any time soon (The Kindle does work with DRM free titles, btw). The data files are too small. You could literally copy a publisher’s entire base of intellectual property in a few files. Amazon does support self published works, however. Perhaps this is the future. Like the music industry, the writers will cut out the middle man.
Robert Surtees wrote:
Amazon does support self published works, however. Perhaps this is the future. Like the music industry, the writers will cut out the middle man.
The only middlemen I can see going away are the printer/distributors. Poke around at random self published stuff sometime; most of it is staggeringly mindblowingly bad, and unlike music files that are only a few minutes long you can't quickly identify some of the biggest failure modes because they don't become apparent until you're half or most of the way through a book. Traditional publishers are needed as a crap filter. Even within the bookstore they provide useful filtering because they print different styles of story. If I need to grab a book quickly as a time killer I don't look at the racks as a whole; instead I look first for the Baen Spaceship and Tor Mountain imprints because they're the publishers whose tastes most closely align with mine and have the best chance of a random book by an unknown author being a good read.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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I own two Kindles. Got the first one when they were announced and the second last year for my daughter. Highly recommended. If you bought the Kindle just for reference books then I would say send it back. It isn’t suited for this. While there is a search feature, nothing beats flipping through pages. It also renders diagrams, screen shots and the like poorly. The bigger DX might do better but I doubt it. You also can’t loan your books out (give them away, really. They never come back). You can, however share them amongst your family. You can link multiple Kindles to a single credit card and they all stay in sync with one another. As pointed out in another thread, there is also a PC and an iPhone reader. As a device for reading fiction, it is wonderful. I find it difficult to read a normal book anymore. It’s like the convenience of an mp3 collection over vinyl. You give up the trophies on the wall, and the ability to loan to friends, but really, the books are just clutter, and at 5 bucks a book, my friends can buy their own. You can even rationalize the cost of the thing if you consider what the value of all that space is you’re using to hold your giant paperback collection. I love the fact that I can carry every book I own, and every book I could ever want to own, in a device smaller than a paperback. The writing is on the wall for the mass market bookstore. Just take a look at the music and video market. I used to hang out in several of the local record shops and it was great. Now, I can’t even buy a CD at Best Buy that isn’t in the top 10. All the video rental places are closing down. The game exchange shops will follow soon. Bookstores are next. The avid book readers (the one’s that spend the money that keeps book sellers and writers in business) are switching to e-books. You can’t justify the existence of a book store just to sell the top ten best sellers that the general public consumes. Once the critical mass is hit, it will be over. I also doubt you will see DRM free mass market books any time soon (The Kindle does work with DRM free titles, btw). The data files are too small. You could literally copy a publisher’s entire base of intellectual property in a few files. Amazon does support self published works, however. Perhaps this is the future. Like the music industry, the writers will cut out the middle man.
Robert Surtees wrote:
The avid book readers (the one’s that spend the money that keeps book sellers and writers in business) are switching to e-books.
I am a very avid reader, I read about 30-40 works of fiction a year plus technical books and professional journals and 10-15 non-fiction works a year. But, if this is the direction the industry is heading then I am sure there will be a time when I no longer willingly pay for a title.
Robert Surtees wrote:
You can even rationalize the cost of the thing if you consider what the value of all that space is you’re using to hold your giant paperback collection. I love the fact that I can carry every book I own, and every book I could ever want to own, in a device smaller than a paperback.
I don't keep most of the books I've read, like I said I give them as gifts or sell them because I hate the clutter. But, I loathe the idea of having to keep a book forever or simply delete it. It is a pretty shitty idea. Now, I imagine I'll just have to stick to the public library in the future.
Robert Surtees wrote:
If you bought the Kindle just for reference books then I would say send it back. It isn’t suited for this.
I didn't buy it, it was a gift from my beautiful wife. Not something I asked for but she thought I'd enjoy it. This will be the first gift she's given me which I can find absolutely no practical use.
And above all things, never think that you're not good enough yourself. A man should never think that. My belief is that in life people will take you at your own reckoning. --Isaac Asimov Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
modified on Monday, January 4, 2010 11:03 AM
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Robert Surtees wrote:
Amazon does support self published works, however. Perhaps this is the future. Like the music industry, the writers will cut out the middle man.
The only middlemen I can see going away are the printer/distributors. Poke around at random self published stuff sometime; most of it is staggeringly mindblowingly bad, and unlike music files that are only a few minutes long you can't quickly identify some of the biggest failure modes because they don't become apparent until you're half or most of the way through a book. Traditional publishers are needed as a crap filter. Even within the bookstore they provide useful filtering because they print different styles of story. If I need to grab a book quickly as a time killer I don't look at the racks as a whole; instead I look first for the Baen Spaceship and Tor Mountain imprints because they're the publishers whose tastes most closely align with mine and have the best chance of a random book by an unknown author being a good read.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
Dan Neely wrote:
The only middlemen I can see going away are the printer/distributors. Poke around at random self published stuff sometime; most of it is staggeringly mindblowingly bad
A good point -- I think you're right. I hope it doesn't mean that is what is in store for us. I suppose the music industry isn't such a good parallel as the music publishers seem to be the ones crapifying everything at the moment. The big book stores are still going to have a tough time of it. The Walmarts and Targets of the world sell the best sellers at a loss which sucks most of the profit out of the book only places.
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Dan Neely wrote:
The only middlemen I can see going away are the printer/distributors. Poke around at random self published stuff sometime; most of it is staggeringly mindblowingly bad
A good point -- I think you're right. I hope it doesn't mean that is what is in store for us. I suppose the music industry isn't such a good parallel as the music publishers seem to be the ones crapifying everything at the moment. The big book stores are still going to have a tough time of it. The Walmarts and Targets of the world sell the best sellers at a loss which sucks most of the profit out of the book only places.
Robert Surtees wrote:
The Walmarts and Targets of the world sell the best sellers at a loss which sucks most of the profit out of the book only places.
Unless they're selling at <~50% cover price they're not selling at a loss; before store overheads are factored in at least (no idea how to get a reasonable figure for these).
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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Robert Surtees wrote:
The avid book readers (the one’s that spend the money that keeps book sellers and writers in business) are switching to e-books.
I am a very avid reader, I read about 30-40 works of fiction a year plus technical books and professional journals and 10-15 non-fiction works a year. But, if this is the direction the industry is heading then I am sure there will be a time when I no longer willingly pay for a title.
Robert Surtees wrote:
You can even rationalize the cost of the thing if you consider what the value of all that space is you’re using to hold your giant paperback collection. I love the fact that I can carry every book I own, and every book I could ever want to own, in a device smaller than a paperback.
I don't keep most of the books I've read, like I said I give them as gifts or sell them because I hate the clutter. But, I loathe the idea of having to keep a book forever or simply delete it. It is a pretty shitty idea. Now, I imagine I'll just have to stick to the public library in the future.
Robert Surtees wrote:
If you bought the Kindle just for reference books then I would say send it back. It isn’t suited for this.
I didn't buy it, it was a gift from my beautiful wife. Not something I asked for but she thought I'd enjoy it. This will be the first gift she's given me which I can find absolutely no practical use.
And above all things, never think that you're not good enough yourself. A man should never think that. My belief is that in life people will take you at your own reckoning. --Isaac Asimov Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
modified on Monday, January 4, 2010 11:03 AM
I feel your pain. As an avid music collector I miss the days of dealing with my local record shop, but gone they are. I just don't think there will be any money left in running a book store unless they add some sort of value to the experience. The all seem to have coffee shops and whatnot in them now. It would be interesting to see how much of the profit comes from non-book sources. I just look at my Kindle as a fairly pricey bookshelf that never gets full. If you don't want the extra books physically on the device you can just delete them. Amazon retains you're entire collection and you can redownload anything on demand. You just have to bet on Amazon staying in business :) I'd encourage you to give it a go. It's nice to laze on your side and not worry about the pages flipping. You can haul it around with you wherever. You can read embarassing titles without anyone knowing. If you have crap eyesight like myself, the adjustable font is the best -- the reason I bought it in the first place as I just can't see the type in a paperback anymore and I was sick of paying for and hunting down hardcovers. I also travel for two and three weeks at a go. Hands down the best addition to life on the road I've ever got. You also can preview any title for free. If someone mentions a book at lunch for example, I can download the first couple of chapters and give it a look straight away. You mentioned hanging out at the library -- I was just at our local branch a couple of days ago. Everyone in the place was on a computer surfing the web! Cracked me up.
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Robert Surtees wrote:
The Walmarts and Targets of the world sell the best sellers at a loss which sucks most of the profit out of the book only places.
Unless they're selling at <~50% cover price they're not selling at a loss; before store overheads are factored in at least (no idea how to get a reasonable figure for these).
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
True, the markup is crazy big I'm sure, but that pays for the other 99% of the books in the store that sit there looking cool and making the place look all bookstorish.