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  3. Freelance work... contract or no contract?

Freelance work... contract or no contract?

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  • D Offline
    D Offline
    DaTxomin
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    I've been doing freelance work for a while "commando style" (let's say). I took advice from one of the posters here and charge 1/3 upfront, 1/3 upon delivery of product, and 1/3 upon delivery of source code. This worked great, btw, so a big thanks to you-know-who-you-are. Up to this point, however, I've never worried about contracts of any kind. Budgets and specs are discussed over email so, I guess, they might have been some kind of "verbal contracts". Honestly, I couldn't say what legalese applies. So, the amount of business I'm doing is growing and, more often than not, I'm dealing with companies (rather than privates). I have become increasingly concerned about issues of liability and what not. Truth be said, the projects I contract for are not on the million dollar mark in any way whatsoever. Rather, the software I develop is the "do X and Y" kind and that's that. Nonetheless, I keep thinking, what about a contract? I most politely would like to request the advice of seniors and other experienced folk on these matters. Any pointers or links would be appreciated. I will say that, it appears to me, adding the work of writing down contracts would increase my expenses. I'm not sure how to factor this in when one of my usual project goes for some US$5,000 give or take.

    C _ M D S 7 Replies Last reply
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    • D DaTxomin

      I've been doing freelance work for a while "commando style" (let's say). I took advice from one of the posters here and charge 1/3 upfront, 1/3 upon delivery of product, and 1/3 upon delivery of source code. This worked great, btw, so a big thanks to you-know-who-you-are. Up to this point, however, I've never worried about contracts of any kind. Budgets and specs are discussed over email so, I guess, they might have been some kind of "verbal contracts". Honestly, I couldn't say what legalese applies. So, the amount of business I'm doing is growing and, more often than not, I'm dealing with companies (rather than privates). I have become increasingly concerned about issues of liability and what not. Truth be said, the projects I contract for are not on the million dollar mark in any way whatsoever. Rather, the software I develop is the "do X and Y" kind and that's that. Nonetheless, I keep thinking, what about a contract? I most politely would like to request the advice of seniors and other experienced folk on these matters. Any pointers or links would be appreciated. I will say that, it appears to me, adding the work of writing down contracts would increase my expenses. I'm not sure how to factor this in when one of my usual project goes for some US$5,000 give or take.

      C Offline
      C Offline
      Christian Graus
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      My advice would be to insist that a contract be written up, and make the point that such a contract will include their ownership of the code you write, and therefore exists for their protection. I'd come up with something pro forma to offer if they don't have anything, to make it as easy as possible for them. Of course, it would lay out your terms, your liability, etc. It would also lay out any warranty period. I would always fix bugs for a period after delivery if they were found.

      Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.

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      • D DaTxomin

        I've been doing freelance work for a while "commando style" (let's say). I took advice from one of the posters here and charge 1/3 upfront, 1/3 upon delivery of product, and 1/3 upon delivery of source code. This worked great, btw, so a big thanks to you-know-who-you-are. Up to this point, however, I've never worried about contracts of any kind. Budgets and specs are discussed over email so, I guess, they might have been some kind of "verbal contracts". Honestly, I couldn't say what legalese applies. So, the amount of business I'm doing is growing and, more often than not, I'm dealing with companies (rather than privates). I have become increasingly concerned about issues of liability and what not. Truth be said, the projects I contract for are not on the million dollar mark in any way whatsoever. Rather, the software I develop is the "do X and Y" kind and that's that. Nonetheless, I keep thinking, what about a contract? I most politely would like to request the advice of seniors and other experienced folk on these matters. Any pointers or links would be appreciated. I will say that, it appears to me, adding the work of writing down contracts would increase my expenses. I'm not sure how to factor this in when one of my usual project goes for some US$5,000 give or take.

        _ Offline
        _ Offline
        _Damian S_
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        DaTxomin wrote:

        I have become increasingly concerned about issues of liability and what not.

        You must invest in professional indemnity insurance if you haven't already. As far as "contracts" go, so long as you have something that says "I charge X per hour" and they say go ahead, then go for it. I have been running my company for nearly 8 years now, and have only ever been burned once (and pretty minor) using this theory - the "client" said to go ahead and do something, so I did, took it and gave it to them, then invoiced them only to have them say "show me where I gave written authority for this work to proceed". After threatening legal action, I received 50% of the invoice (told them I'd wear the other 50% as a show of good faith), then proceeded to tell everyone I met in the world not to do any work for Lectel Consulting at Morayfield in Queensland, lest they too be ripped off. ;-)

        I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!

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        • _ _Damian S_

          DaTxomin wrote:

          I have become increasingly concerned about issues of liability and what not.

          You must invest in professional indemnity insurance if you haven't already. As far as "contracts" go, so long as you have something that says "I charge X per hour" and they say go ahead, then go for it. I have been running my company for nearly 8 years now, and have only ever been burned once (and pretty minor) using this theory - the "client" said to go ahead and do something, so I did, took it and gave it to them, then invoiced them only to have them say "show me where I gave written authority for this work to proceed". After threatening legal action, I received 50% of the invoice (told them I'd wear the other 50% as a show of good faith), then proceeded to tell everyone I met in the world not to do any work for Lectel Consulting at Morayfield in Queensland, lest they too be ripped off. ;-)

          I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!

          C Offline
          C Offline
          Christian Graus
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          _Damian S_ wrote:

          Lectel Consulting at Morayfield in Queensland,

          ROTFL - brilliant.

          Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.

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          • D DaTxomin

            I've been doing freelance work for a while "commando style" (let's say). I took advice from one of the posters here and charge 1/3 upfront, 1/3 upon delivery of product, and 1/3 upon delivery of source code. This worked great, btw, so a big thanks to you-know-who-you-are. Up to this point, however, I've never worried about contracts of any kind. Budgets and specs are discussed over email so, I guess, they might have been some kind of "verbal contracts". Honestly, I couldn't say what legalese applies. So, the amount of business I'm doing is growing and, more often than not, I'm dealing with companies (rather than privates). I have become increasingly concerned about issues of liability and what not. Truth be said, the projects I contract for are not on the million dollar mark in any way whatsoever. Rather, the software I develop is the "do X and Y" kind and that's that. Nonetheless, I keep thinking, what about a contract? I most politely would like to request the advice of seniors and other experienced folk on these matters. Any pointers or links would be appreciated. I will say that, it appears to me, adding the work of writing down contracts would increase my expenses. I'm not sure how to factor this in when one of my usual project goes for some US$5,000 give or take.

            M Offline
            M Offline
            Mycroft Holmes
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            I did this style of development for many years in the early 90's and never used a contract, and the value of the developments were considerably more than the 5k. Having said that I no longer work that way for a reason - you CAN go broke doing that, one really pissed off client will kill you, you are trading on your reputation and good name and have to protect that at almost any cost, this makes you vulnerable and it only takes one lousy client to take advantage of that to ruin your business. As CG suggested I would hunt around for a proforma contract that keeps it simple and limits your liability while giving your client the IP to the code, that being the general trade off.

            Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH

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            • D DaTxomin

              I've been doing freelance work for a while "commando style" (let's say). I took advice from one of the posters here and charge 1/3 upfront, 1/3 upon delivery of product, and 1/3 upon delivery of source code. This worked great, btw, so a big thanks to you-know-who-you-are. Up to this point, however, I've never worried about contracts of any kind. Budgets and specs are discussed over email so, I guess, they might have been some kind of "verbal contracts". Honestly, I couldn't say what legalese applies. So, the amount of business I'm doing is growing and, more often than not, I'm dealing with companies (rather than privates). I have become increasingly concerned about issues of liability and what not. Truth be said, the projects I contract for are not on the million dollar mark in any way whatsoever. Rather, the software I develop is the "do X and Y" kind and that's that. Nonetheless, I keep thinking, what about a contract? I most politely would like to request the advice of seniors and other experienced folk on these matters. Any pointers or links would be appreciated. I will say that, it appears to me, adding the work of writing down contracts would increase my expenses. I'm not sure how to factor this in when one of my usual project goes for some US$5,000 give or take.

              D Offline
              D Offline
              DaTxomin
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Thank you all for the replies.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • D DaTxomin

                I've been doing freelance work for a while "commando style" (let's say). I took advice from one of the posters here and charge 1/3 upfront, 1/3 upon delivery of product, and 1/3 upon delivery of source code. This worked great, btw, so a big thanks to you-know-who-you-are. Up to this point, however, I've never worried about contracts of any kind. Budgets and specs are discussed over email so, I guess, they might have been some kind of "verbal contracts". Honestly, I couldn't say what legalese applies. So, the amount of business I'm doing is growing and, more often than not, I'm dealing with companies (rather than privates). I have become increasingly concerned about issues of liability and what not. Truth be said, the projects I contract for are not on the million dollar mark in any way whatsoever. Rather, the software I develop is the "do X and Y" kind and that's that. Nonetheless, I keep thinking, what about a contract? I most politely would like to request the advice of seniors and other experienced folk on these matters. Any pointers or links would be appreciated. I will say that, it appears to me, adding the work of writing down contracts would increase my expenses. I'm not sure how to factor this in when one of my usual project goes for some US$5,000 give or take.

                S Offline
                S Offline
                smcnulty2000
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                DaTxomin wrote:

                Up to this point, however, I've never worried about contracts of any kind. Budgets and specs are discussed over email so, I guess, they might have been some kind of "verbal contracts". Honestly, I couldn't say what legalese applies.

                Depends on which legal system is in play. In a US court anything in writing, including emails, is taken into account by a court in the event of a lawsuit. A written contract is a part of that. They will even take into account verbal statements, but paper items trump verbal, and a written contract trumps the other papers if there is a disagreement. Emails are in writing, so they would hold a little more weight than a verbal contract. The point of a contract is truly that you and your client have a "meeting of minds" in agreeing to what you are each going to provide. The paper contract is only a reflection of what all involved parties were agreeing to at the moment they agreed. Additionally you are both required to exchange "consideration", which is a good, service, or the like. If there is no consideration then you don't have a contract. The exceptions are rare, such as charitable donations where you can be held accountable if you promise to give money and then don't. I'm not saying you shouldn't have a formal contract. I think its a good idea. What I'm saying is that under some circumstances the email exchange can be seen as a contract, depending on the contents. That's one of the reasons that most contracts include a statement to the effect that "this document supersedes all previous agreements whether verbal or written". You may already have been in a contract without knowing it. I will, when I'm going the full formal route, write up a statement of work (SOW) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statement_of_work[^]. I have never needed to go with a "Master Service Agreement" (MSA) but I think that wouldn't be a tough next step. That's where you make a master agreement with a company that spells out things like who owns the source code, warranties, etc, and then you have your SOW simply refer to the MSA for those elements. Then you do another contract with the same people; you just have to build another SOW referring to your previous MSA. I have no idea if you'd need all of that, or some other mix.

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                • D DaTxomin

                  I've been doing freelance work for a while "commando style" (let's say). I took advice from one of the posters here and charge 1/3 upfront, 1/3 upon delivery of product, and 1/3 upon delivery of source code. This worked great, btw, so a big thanks to you-know-who-you-are. Up to this point, however, I've never worried about contracts of any kind. Budgets and specs are discussed over email so, I guess, they might have been some kind of "verbal contracts". Honestly, I couldn't say what legalese applies. So, the amount of business I'm doing is growing and, more often than not, I'm dealing with companies (rather than privates). I have become increasingly concerned about issues of liability and what not. Truth be said, the projects I contract for are not on the million dollar mark in any way whatsoever. Rather, the software I develop is the "do X and Y" kind and that's that. Nonetheless, I keep thinking, what about a contract? I most politely would like to request the advice of seniors and other experienced folk on these matters. Any pointers or links would be appreciated. I will say that, it appears to me, adding the work of writing down contracts would increase my expenses. I'm not sure how to factor this in when one of my usual project goes for some US$5,000 give or take.

                  E Offline
                  E Offline
                  Ennis Ray Lynch Jr
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  A written contract is nothing more than a statement between two parties about an agreement. It should not increase your cost by any significance. I always have a written contract in place before I do work. Keep a standard contract on file and use it.

                  Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane

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                  • D DaTxomin

                    I've been doing freelance work for a while "commando style" (let's say). I took advice from one of the posters here and charge 1/3 upfront, 1/3 upon delivery of product, and 1/3 upon delivery of source code. This worked great, btw, so a big thanks to you-know-who-you-are. Up to this point, however, I've never worried about contracts of any kind. Budgets and specs are discussed over email so, I guess, they might have been some kind of "verbal contracts". Honestly, I couldn't say what legalese applies. So, the amount of business I'm doing is growing and, more often than not, I'm dealing with companies (rather than privates). I have become increasingly concerned about issues of liability and what not. Truth be said, the projects I contract for are not on the million dollar mark in any way whatsoever. Rather, the software I develop is the "do X and Y" kind and that's that. Nonetheless, I keep thinking, what about a contract? I most politely would like to request the advice of seniors and other experienced folk on these matters. Any pointers or links would be appreciated. I will say that, it appears to me, adding the work of writing down contracts would increase my expenses. I'm not sure how to factor this in when one of my usual project goes for some US$5,000 give or take.

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                    J Offline
                    Jorgen Andersson
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    If liability is your concern you should maybe inform yourself on liability insurances. When you get the wrong job for the wrong customer...

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