Desperately Seeking Employment
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Stan, What's the environment like in Indiana? My parents have recently taken ill and I have been thinking about relocating to the area. Last time I was there it seemed like a lot of business applications and no one was in the consumer software end of things. It was also strange to see adds looking for a senior developer with 3 - 5 years experience. To me that is a junior developer unless they are exceptional so I am concerned about finding challenging work. Jay
Strange, thats exactly why I moved here - my wife's folks are elderly and she needed to be closer to them because of their health. Your right that most of the work here is internal applications for big business, which pretty much means VB, and there are a LOT of VB, peoplesoft, etc, guys around here. There are a few entreprenurial/consumer shops here, but in interviewing with these companies, I found they had very little respect for local talent. Most of them were staffed with young guys recruited out of California or New England and seemed to be really put out that they had to interview some middle aged red neck from Oklahoma. I was dismissed as a "weak" programmer after each interview - so much for 15+ years of professional experience! I didn't see a gray hair in any of those places. THere are also quite a few contracting/consulting firms around - but they seem to concentrate on hard core database talent, Oracle, SQL Server, etc. I currently work for a small(I'm their only full time programmer!), privately owned and well founded, Unified messaging company. Its not a bad place, but obviously there is little upward mobility, and little chance to use questionable new technologies, but the pay is good, the work is challenging enough, and there is little stress aside from the code. If you are a hardcore c++/windows/AS400 guy, my boss might like to talk to you. If I were a bit more mobile, however, but had to live in the midwest (gag) I would try Chicago - seems to be a pretty decent market up there.
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I'm about to become unemployed (and by all indications, unemployable in San Antonio). If anyone knows of a job in this area or a company that needs a C++/MFC programmer, please let me know. Even if the job is for a few months, anything is better than nothing. There's nothing in the paper, and I can telecommute if the job is outside my "max acceptable driving range" of 50 miles. Thanks in advance.
Good luck John n/m Regardz Colin Davies
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Well, I relocated to San Antonio almost a year ago and bought a house, and am not inclined to relocate again. Texas is not the hotbed of software developement that everyone thinks it is unless you live in Dallas, Houston, or Austin, and most of the jobs are for one of the anti-languages (VB, Java, ASP, etc). Admittedly, Austin is only about an hour away, but then you have to consider the traffic on I35 and the possibility that the part of Austin you're trying to reach may be on the opposite (north) side of town. We're talking about a 3-6 hours of commute ever day. I'm on a motorcycle, so the commute gets kinda dicey (if you've ever driven in Texas, you know what mean), and the likelihood of me getting hurt/killed because of some moron in a car/truck not paying attention to what they're doing goes up dramatically in extended driving periods, especially at the beginning/end of a work day. I'm not willing to live away fro my family for 5 days out of every week and book-end the brief visits home with 4-6 hour drives back to an almost empty apartment. I'm 45 and shouldn't have to do that crap. You're right - it's bleak, and it's scary. I have a little over 1 year worth of child-support payments left and that makes it even worse.
Still, picking up new skills can't hurt. I have no intention of going the VB route. Java? I doubt it. But I intend to spend the summer coming up to speed with the palm top systems, and when .Net/C# etc is released, I am going to jump all over that. If that technology takes off, we will all be at the starting gate together, and I can still outpace most of the young punks I know. I think people moving into it from the VC++ side will smoke those coming into it form the VB side. I also think sometimes about jumping onto the Linux bandwagon but there are just too many hippies and commies in that bunch for an old cold warrior like me.
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Strange, thats exactly why I moved here - my wife's folks are elderly and she needed to be closer to them because of their health. Your right that most of the work here is internal applications for big business, which pretty much means VB, and there are a LOT of VB, peoplesoft, etc, guys around here. There are a few entreprenurial/consumer shops here, but in interviewing with these companies, I found they had very little respect for local talent. Most of them were staffed with young guys recruited out of California or New England and seemed to be really put out that they had to interview some middle aged red neck from Oklahoma. I was dismissed as a "weak" programmer after each interview - so much for 15+ years of professional experience! I didn't see a gray hair in any of those places. THere are also quite a few contracting/consulting firms around - but they seem to concentrate on hard core database talent, Oracle, SQL Server, etc. I currently work for a small(I'm their only full time programmer!), privately owned and well founded, Unified messaging company. Its not a bad place, but obviously there is little upward mobility, and little chance to use questionable new technologies, but the pay is good, the work is challenging enough, and there is little stress aside from the code. If you are a hardcore c++/windows/AS400 guy, my boss might like to talk to you. If I were a bit more mobile, however, but had to live in the midwest (gag) I would try Chicago - seems to be a pretty decent market up there.
Stan, Hmmmm.... That is what I thought. It is a shame that the consumer shops have that attitude. It is the lack of mature developers that get mosst projects into trouble and for that matter it isn't that big of a wonder why so many startups went under. I had thought about Chicago but if my parents condition does not improve it would require me to be close so the Indianapolis area is the only option. I just hate to uproot and move to a harsher job environment. I am working in the Seattle area right now and feel a little spoiled with the number of interesting opportunities. Thanks for the feedback. Jay
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Well, I relocated to San Antonio almost a year ago and bought a house, and am not inclined to relocate again. Texas is not the hotbed of software developement that everyone thinks it is unless you live in Dallas, Houston, or Austin, and most of the jobs are for one of the anti-languages (VB, Java, ASP, etc). Admittedly, Austin is only about an hour away, but then you have to consider the traffic on I35 and the possibility that the part of Austin you're trying to reach may be on the opposite (north) side of town. We're talking about a 3-6 hours of commute ever day. I'm on a motorcycle, so the commute gets kinda dicey (if you've ever driven in Texas, you know what mean), and the likelihood of me getting hurt/killed because of some moron in a car/truck not paying attention to what they're doing goes up dramatically in extended driving periods, especially at the beginning/end of a work day. I'm not willing to live away fro my family for 5 days out of every week and book-end the brief visits home with 4-6 hour drives back to an almost empty apartment. I'm 45 and shouldn't have to do that crap. You're right - it's bleak, and it's scary. I have a little over 1 year worth of child-support payments left and that makes it even worse.
>>and most of the jobs are for one of the anti-languages (VB, Java, ASP, etc Bwhaahahahahaha !!!! Christian #include "std_disclaimer.h"
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I'm about to become unemployed (and by all indications, unemployable in San Antonio). If anyone knows of a job in this area or a company that needs a C++/MFC programmer, please let me know. Even if the job is for a few months, anything is better than nothing. There's nothing in the paper, and I can telecommute if the job is outside my "max acceptable driving range" of 50 miles. Thanks in advance.
it is quite damn stupid that the world needs good software (and by extension good software engineers) and yet someone like you is worried about work being available ... the age thing seems like an instant b grade when it should be the opposite ... but hey ... managers didn't get where they are by being clever now did they? i spent the past 18 months writing an app we sell to the financial markets and it has taken off big time so i guess (with luck) i will be cool for work for the rest of my working life (however long i choose to make that) but your message reminded me of the payback i'm getting for the past effort good luck and take no crap :) --- "every year we invent better idiot proof systems and every year they invent better idiots"
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Nobody is looking for a C++/MFC programmer here, or if they are, the person must currently have a secret/top secret clearance. I can get a clearance (I had one up through 1988/89), but the process takes 1 - 3 months (and sometimes as long as a year) to complete, and in the meantime, I wouldn't be able/allowed to work on the product, so I'm not at the top of that particular list of qualified people. The remaining jobs in this town are VB, Java, XML, ASP, et al. You might respnd that by learning those things, I could broaden my "hireability", but think about it from the project manager/interviewer's perspective. I walk in and say I taught myself a little [insert your favorite language here], at least enough to be conversant in it, but that I have no practical experience in that language, but that to compensate, I would consider less salary than my years of C++ experience would normally command. The project manager is looking for someone that can jump right in and provide instant gratification for the suits, and will reject my application for employment because I simply don't have enough experience, despite the fact that I've got a history of being able to learn whatever I needed to learn in order to do a job. On the one hand, I can't blame them for their outlook, but on the other, I don't feel that's quite fair to me. So, here I am, unemployable in San Antonio because I don't have any experience in any of the newer languages/paradigms, simply because I didn't need to know them in my previous work, and despite my demonstrated ability to learn as I go. :|
There are a lot of C++/MFC jobs in Dallas, at least when I was looking about a year ago. Wayne
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Stan, Hmmmm.... That is what I thought. It is a shame that the consumer shops have that attitude. It is the lack of mature developers that get mosst projects into trouble and for that matter it isn't that big of a wonder why so many startups went under. I had thought about Chicago but if my parents condition does not improve it would require me to be close so the Indianapolis area is the only option. I just hate to uproot and move to a harsher job environment. I am working in the Seattle area right now and feel a little spoiled with the number of interesting opportunities. Thanks for the feedback. Jay
If you do decide to look into Indy, send me an e-mail. My boss is from the Seattle area originally also, and he likes it here well enough, you guys might get along.
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I'm about to become unemployed (and by all indications, unemployable in San Antonio). If anyone knows of a job in this area or a company that needs a C++/MFC programmer, please let me know. Even if the job is for a few months, anything is better than nothing. There's nothing in the paper, and I can telecommute if the job is outside my "max acceptable driving range" of 50 miles. Thanks in advance.
John, this does not make me feel secure! I'm 42 and have four more weeks of school before I get my ATA in Computer Information Systems. I live in the Seattle area, and all I have for experience is three classes in C++ and one in MFC. I really want to be a programmer, but if you have the experience you have, and your finding a lack in the market, what do you think a person starting out should consider for future skill sets? I love C++ and would like to only invest my time in solid skills that will get me a job. Thanks RON:confused:
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John, this does not make me feel secure! I'm 42 and have four more weeks of school before I get my ATA in Computer Information Systems. I live in the Seattle area, and all I have for experience is three classes in C++ and one in MFC. I really want to be a programmer, but if you have the experience you have, and your finding a lack in the market, what do you think a person starting out should consider for future skill sets? I love C++ and would like to only invest my time in solid skills that will get me a job. Thanks RON:confused:
My complaint is about the local market. Seattle may be usting with C++/MFC jobs, but San Antonio is most definitely *not* the place to live for anyone wanting to make a living in C++. I hate job hopping (I spent 12 years at one company - as a programmer), and believe it or not, I'm not in this for the money. I write programs because I like doing it. I don't care if I ever become famous or get rich or come up with the latest killer app. I just want to to do what I do and receive a heart-felt and honest "great effort, and great programming" from the guy that signs my paycheck. As I see it, companies aren't interested in delivering a quality product (or quality after-sale support) with a two-or-more major revision lifecycle. They see an original idea and sink their fangs into it and bleed it dry in a matter of months. Users are left with non-supported software with no hope of even the most minor of bug-fix releases because the coporate beancounters wanted the fastest buck with as little expenditure as possible, and they wanted experts *immediately* that work for peanuts. They're not interested in nurturing an employee, and loyalty is a one-way term for corporate suits. As long as *you're* loyal to "the company", you're fine, but don't even *dare* to expect the same favor in return. Am I bitter? Maybe a little. Am I angry? You bet, and everybody that crusise this website should be, too. We're at the mercy of corporate America, and corporate America doesn't give a rat's ass about us because some programmer wanna-be with a four year sheepskin that thinks Visual Basic is "the best language ever" is being pumped out of our colleges by the thousanads, so there's always someone who can step in where integrity and pride in a job done well has long-since taken a powder. I'm ready to dazzle anyone (with the gumption to hire me) with some first-class code, and I can learn any of the anti-languages necessary to get a job done. :suss:
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John, this does not make me feel secure! I'm 42 and have four more weeks of school before I get my ATA in Computer Information Systems. I live in the Seattle area, and all I have for experience is three classes in C++ and one in MFC. I really want to be a programmer, but if you have the experience you have, and your finding a lack in the market, what do you think a person starting out should consider for future skill sets? I love C++ and would like to only invest my time in solid skills that will get me a job. Thanks RON:confused:
Ron, its always the same issue, no matter how old or how experienced you are. You can only be an "expert" in so much. The number of companies which will give you an opportunity to develope professional expertise in a wide range of technologies are very few. So you have a tendency to become pegion-holed technologically. When you want to grow professionally, to develope and implement new technical skills, you are always back to square one - can't get the job without the expericence can't get the experience witout the job.
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John, this does not make me feel secure! I'm 42 and have four more weeks of school before I get my ATA in Computer Information Systems. I live in the Seattle area, and all I have for experience is three classes in C++ and one in MFC. I really want to be a programmer, but if you have the experience you have, and your finding a lack in the market, what do you think a person starting out should consider for future skill sets? I love C++ and would like to only invest my time in solid skills that will get me a job. Thanks RON:confused:
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it is quite damn stupid that the world needs good software (and by extension good software engineers) and yet someone like you is worried about work being available ... the age thing seems like an instant b grade when it should be the opposite ... but hey ... managers didn't get where they are by being clever now did they? i spent the past 18 months writing an app we sell to the financial markets and it has taken off big time so i guess (with luck) i will be cool for work for the rest of my working life (however long i choose to make that) but your message reminded me of the payback i'm getting for the past effort good luck and take no crap :) --- "every year we invent better idiot proof systems and every year they invent better idiots"
Yeah, I know. Check out my resume on my website. Lots of people say the same thing you do, but when it comes right down to getting an interview, nobody wants to talk to me because I don't have any VB, ASP, SOAP, XML, JAVA, or [insert your favorite anti-language here] experience. I've interviewed for exactly one C++/MFC job in this town since 11/2000. They weren't even sure they needed a programmer (and it turns out that they didn't). http://www.paddedwall.org/john/programmer I spent 12 years at one company (through 05/2000), nine of those were spent writing in C++, and I taught myself Turbo Pascal, C++, MFC, the Windows API, amd all while learning how to do estate planning. I can (and have demostrated the aptitude to) learn anything, but nobody wants to hear that. They want instant experience.
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My complaint is about the local market. Seattle may be usting with C++/MFC jobs, but San Antonio is most definitely *not* the place to live for anyone wanting to make a living in C++. I hate job hopping (I spent 12 years at one company - as a programmer), and believe it or not, I'm not in this for the money. I write programs because I like doing it. I don't care if I ever become famous or get rich or come up with the latest killer app. I just want to to do what I do and receive a heart-felt and honest "great effort, and great programming" from the guy that signs my paycheck. As I see it, companies aren't interested in delivering a quality product (or quality after-sale support) with a two-or-more major revision lifecycle. They see an original idea and sink their fangs into it and bleed it dry in a matter of months. Users are left with non-supported software with no hope of even the most minor of bug-fix releases because the coporate beancounters wanted the fastest buck with as little expenditure as possible, and they wanted experts *immediately* that work for peanuts. They're not interested in nurturing an employee, and loyalty is a one-way term for corporate suits. As long as *you're* loyal to "the company", you're fine, but don't even *dare* to expect the same favor in return. Am I bitter? Maybe a little. Am I angry? You bet, and everybody that crusise this website should be, too. We're at the mercy of corporate America, and corporate America doesn't give a rat's ass about us because some programmer wanna-be with a four year sheepskin that thinks Visual Basic is "the best language ever" is being pumped out of our colleges by the thousanads, so there's always someone who can step in where integrity and pride in a job done well has long-since taken a powder. I'm ready to dazzle anyone (with the gumption to hire me) with some first-class code, and I can learn any of the anti-languages necessary to get a job done. :suss:
I agree with you John. You should have added Java in your list.;)
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Thanks for letting me know this up front :) At least this way I'm getting the real picture of the field instead of some school blowing smoke. Now I can start making plans for my future based on reality. As for VB, yes I did take two classes on this and was not impressed with it. But then again it is just another tool.(I think). But I guess what I would like to know from people that are in the field is what skills look like they have a promising future :confused: Java, Asp, XML etc. Thank RON
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Thanks for letting me know this up front :) At least this way I'm getting the real picture of the field instead of some school blowing smoke. Now I can start making plans for my future based on reality. As for VB, yes I did take two classes on this and was not impressed with it. But then again it is just another tool.(I think). But I guess what I would like to know from people that are in the field is what skills look like they have a promising future :confused: Java, Asp, XML etc. Thank RON
Well, dispite everything I've said about wanting to learn new technology, I actually honestly believe that C++/VC++ remains the best bet. I think the hype around Java, VB etc, is going to fade away. Reality will sink in with the industry, and demand for "real" programmers will come back with a vengence, as well written C++ apps continue to outperform those written with any other platform. C# might be worth a look, but I will actuall be suprised if 5 years from now the world is clamoring for C# programmers. I do think XML has a tremendous future. Also, keeping your database skills up to date will continue to be important.
