Do we really need Java runtime?
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Of course the crowd here will find this hard to believe, but there are some environments where Windows is NOT the dominant OS. In particular, among educators, Mac's are very popular. Consequently, work targeting educators often needs to be cross-platform (often involving even more exotic OS's; you know, like Linux ;) ), and hence, often involves the use of Java.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
Regarding my experience people tends to overestimate Java “multiplatform” future. And when it goes to system programing it’s less multiplatform then C\C++ in some cases/using the serial port for example/. Also Java doesn’t supports or partially supports some operation systems/not legacy ones/ used in the Enterprise business/banks etc./ which have built in C++ support for example. Multiplatform language means multiplatform framework and Java doesn’t offer such thing, except for web or Java Swing which however is suitable only for creating a basic applications/installers. Edit: Don’t get me wrong, I don’t trying to snap on Java here, it used to pay my bills for a couple of years but there are a better options out there.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
modified on Friday, February 19, 2010 5:11 PM
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Regarding my experience people tends to overestimate Java “multiplatform” future. And when it goes to system programing it’s less multiplatform then C\C++ in some cases/using the serial port for example/. Also Java doesn’t supports or partially supports some operation systems/not legacy ones/ used in the Enterprise business/banks etc./ which have built in C++ support for example. Multiplatform language means multiplatform framework and Java doesn’t offer such thing, except for web or Java Swing which however is suitable only for creating a basic applications/installers. Edit: Don’t get me wrong, I don’t trying to snap on Java here, it used to pay my bills for a couple of years but there are a better options out there.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
modified on Friday, February 19, 2010 5:11 PM
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
Regarding my experience people tends to overestimate Java “multiplatform” future. And when it goes to system programing it’s less multiplatform then C\C++ in some cases/using the serial port for example/. Also Java doesn’t supports or partially supports some operation systems/not legacy ones/ used in the Enterprise business/banks etc./ which have built in C++ support for example.
Well, if you can't work within the constraints of the system, why are you surprised you find limitations?
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
Multiplatform language means multiplatform framework and Java doesn’t offer such thing, except for web or Java Swing which however is suitable only for creating a basic applications/installers.
My own experience has been significantly different. And totally aware that I'm fighting an uphill battle on this subject with this crowd, that'll be my last word.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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Gwenio wrote:
On topic, I think most people do not need the Java VM and would not miss it. I am stuck with it though because Java is what they teach for introductary computer science classes . Maybe next year I can finally get rid of it.
Don't judge the language on the basis of 'Bluebird' alone. If that's what you're using. ;)
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
We were using BlueJ last semester and the year before that in AP, I suppose that is what you are refering to? Right now I am using notepad for all programming. While I had issues with BlueJ (why must they set the background color of the error message box to white but leave the text the default color?) but it is more the syntax / features it does not have that I have a problem with. Being more familiar with C++ from programming on my own, I want to be able to release memory, and having to create a class when writing methods / defining variables for the entire program is annoying. Edit: That reminds me, now that I am not using BlueJ I can finally set the default text color to yellow again.
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Deyan Georgiev wrote:
Regarding my experience people tends to overestimate Java “multiplatform” future. And when it goes to system programing it’s less multiplatform then C\C++ in some cases/using the serial port for example/. Also Java doesn’t supports or partially supports some operation systems/not legacy ones/ used in the Enterprise business/banks etc./ which have built in C++ support for example.
Well, if you can't work within the constraints of the system, why are you surprised you find limitations?
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
Multiplatform language means multiplatform framework and Java doesn’t offer such thing, except for web or Java Swing which however is suitable only for creating a basic applications/installers.
My own experience has been significantly different. And totally aware that I'm fighting an uphill battle on this subject with this crowd, that'll be my last word.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
Read the “edit” part from my previous post – I’m not fighting with you, and I don’t hate Java, there are a plenty of great libraries and applications written with Java. I just think that this technology is not the proper solution for the problems which it’s targeting to resolve and the practice proves this.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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We were using BlueJ last semester and the year before that in AP, I suppose that is what you are refering to? Right now I am using notepad for all programming. While I had issues with BlueJ (why must they set the background color of the error message box to white but leave the text the default color?) but it is more the syntax / features it does not have that I have a problem with. Being more familiar with C++ from programming on my own, I want to be able to release memory, and having to create a class when writing methods / defining variables for the entire program is annoying. Edit: That reminds me, now that I am not using BlueJ I can finally set the default text color to yellow again.
That's it! Bluebird, Bluejay, Blueballs... something like that. :-D
Gwenio wrote:
but it is more the syntax / features it does not have that I have a problem with
Yeah, it's pretty silly. I don't know why they don't just let the beginners use NetBeans or Eclipse. Most of 'em have probably already had some exposure to a real IDE.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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Read the “edit” part from my previous post – I’m not fighting with you, and I don’t hate Java, there are a plenty of great libraries and applications written with Java. I just think that this technology is not the proper solution for the problems which it’s targeting to resolve and the practice proves this.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
Yeah, I saw. No offense taken. All I can say is I've found it to be an effective solution to the problems I've been presented with. That said, I've just stopped working with it as my primary language again maybe 6 months ago. I still feel like I'm shaking the cobwebs out of my head when it comes to keeping track of my own mem/resource allocations. Java kills brain cells, I tells ya. :-D
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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:omg: And that's tied in how...? :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
I have no idea, but I experienced internal need to put Jessica Alba, her legs and my new Alianware in one sentence. Thank you for giving me opportunity to do it again. :-D
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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I have no idea, but I experienced internal need to put Jessica Alba, her legs and my new Alianware in one sentence. Thank you for giving me opportunity to do it again. :-D
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
Delighted I can be of help! Personally I prefer sentences with Salma Hayek and her legs, but I can see a certain charm that Jessica has as well.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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Deyan Georgiev wrote:
this annoying Java VM updates, which is impossible to be turned off
??? Yet I have it turned off on my laptop. If you decide to keep it, try going to Control Pannel and looking for "Java". The dialog this brings up should have an update tab where you can choose to make it not update without you premission and even make it not check for updates. ------------------ On topic, I think most people do not need the Java VM and would not miss it. I am stuck with it though because Java is what they teach for introductary computer science classes X| . Maybe next year I can finally get rid of it.
Gwenio wrote:
Yet I have it turned off on my laptop. If you decide to keep it, try going to Control Pannel and looking for "Java". The dialog this brings up should have an update tab where you can choose to make it not update without you premission and even make it not check for updates.
Thank you but this was the first thing I did and yet it persists in trying to download and install updates. Anyway I’m not going to investigate where the problem is; I’m going to get rid of it.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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The LunaticFringe’s post bellow reminded me that I’m willing to ask this question from some time. I’m tired to fight with this annoying Java VM updates, which is impossible to be turned off. In fact I started to love UAC because of this – it’s my only friend against Java updates. So my question is what I’m going to miss if I just uninstall the thing? I’m not doing Java from years now and I hope I’ll never do it again, so development is not an issue. I don’t care about the websites build with Java – they are very few, so what I’m missing? BTW - Happy Friday to all!
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
Java is currently the most popular programming language. http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html[^]
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
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Yep, OpenOffice relies on Java, though you can get by without Java if you don't use the Java features (one big thing is that Base requires Java, but who uses Base anyway).
aspdotnetdev wrote:
but who uses Base anyway
All your base are belong to us. :laugh: ;)
WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your a$$ will be laminated. There are 10 kinds of people in the world: People who know binary and people who don't.
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aspdotnetdev wrote:
but who uses Base anyway
All your base are belong to us. :laugh: ;)
WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your a$$ will be laminated. There are 10 kinds of people in the world: People who know binary and people who don't.
That's ok, I didn't want it (them?) anyway.
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Of course the crowd here will find this hard to believe, but there are some environments where Windows is NOT the dominant OS. In particular, among educators, Mac's are very popular. Consequently, work targeting educators often needs to be cross-platform (often involving even more exotic OS's; you know, like Linux ;) ), and hence, often involves the use of Java.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
Don't forget Electrical/Computer Engineers designing processors, asics, etc. Windows is simply not powerful enough to run the software that most people use (Cadence Open Source). Solaris / Linux / Java rules in that area. nanohub.org -- can't use its simulators without java. Also, since this is a windows-centric site, many of the regulars refuse to admit (or are in serious denial) that in the large scheme of things (neglecting gaming and lob-type apps) windows is simply a non-player, has-been or so far behind that it simply doesn't matter. ^ I won't even argue the above point, because if you're aware of the bigger computing picture you know what I'm talking about. That being said I like Windows because it does other things very well. And to top it all off: To this day I still have not come across one windows application that I use regularly that requires .Net runtimes. Anything I use regularly on Windows (AutoCAD, ESRI, etc) would simply cause .Net to commit suicide.
-Sean ---- Fire Nuts
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Gwenio wrote:
Yet I have it turned off on my laptop. If you decide to keep it, try going to Control Pannel and looking for "Java". The dialog this brings up should have an update tab where you can choose to make it not update without you premission and even make it not check for updates.
Thank you but this was the first thing I did and yet it persists in trying to download and install updates. Anyway I’m not going to investigate where the problem is; I’m going to get rid of it.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
Running Windows 7 or Vista? Try running javacpl.exe with admin rights, then set the option. You can find javacpl.exe in the java installation folder.
-Sean ---- Fire Nuts
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Java is currently the most popular programming language. http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html[^]
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
Last time I checked the average java programmer made more than the average C/C++/C#/VB programmer.
-Sean ---- Fire Nuts
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The LunaticFringe’s post bellow reminded me that I’m willing to ask this question from some time. I’m tired to fight with this annoying Java VM updates, which is impossible to be turned off. In fact I started to love UAC because of this – it’s my only friend against Java updates. So my question is what I’m going to miss if I just uninstall the thing? I’m not doing Java from years now and I hope I’ll never do it again, so development is not an issue. I don’t care about the websites build with Java – they are very few, so what I’m missing? BTW - Happy Friday to all!
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
MySQL uses Java. And my company's product uses MySQL, so I'm going to be stuck with it for a long time.
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Java is currently the most popular programming language. http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html[^]
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
Is this some kind of joke? Where is the joke icon then? Programming Community index? MATLAB? Go? ActionScript? ABAP? SAS? And no Fortran, Cobol? Perl before Delphi??? WTF? Words fails me.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Last time I checked the average java programmer made more than the average C/C++/C#/VB programmer.
-Sean ---- Fire Nuts
Sounds perfectly logical to me. The average Java programmer needs to be familiar with seven brazilian technologies in order to create a Hello World program. Such people are expensive.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
-
The LunaticFringe’s post bellow reminded me that I’m willing to ask this question from some time. I’m tired to fight with this annoying Java VM updates, which is impossible to be turned off. In fact I started to love UAC because of this – it’s my only friend against Java updates. So my question is what I’m going to miss if I just uninstall the thing? I’m not doing Java from years now and I hope I’ll never do it again, so development is not an issue. I don’t care about the websites build with Java – they are very few, so what I’m missing? BTW - Happy Friday to all!
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
Once in a very long while I run across some web based app almost always put out by a university somewhere that I want to try out that requires java but it's getting fewer and farther between. Unless you need open office I think it's pointless.
Yesterday they said today was tomorrow but today they know better. - Poul Anderson
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I think OpenOffice uses Java for something or other. I think it's even part of the installer.
Bloatus Goatse uses Java as well.
Software Zen:
delete this;
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