Guardian.UK: Climate Priests withdraw journal claims of rising sea levels
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
The debate is NEVER over
Tell that to the eco-nazis not me.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Here's someone on your side of the fence (Anti-AGW) explaining it...
What, RealClimate? You gotta be kidding me, thats a site maintained by one of Hansens employees. Its as biassed as it comes. However, to quote the section you indicated: "the trees react weakly to any further temperature increase." SO its not a decline its a weak increase? I hardly think then they have answered the quesiton!
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
Tell that to the eco-nazis
I invoke Godwins Law[^] - you lose!
You should never use standby on an elephant. It always crashes when you lift the ears. - Mark Wallace C/C++ (I dont see a huge difference between them, and the 'benefits' of C++ are questionable, who needs inheritance when you have copy and paste) - fat_boy
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fat_boy wrote:
What, RealClimate? You gotta be kidding me, thats a site maintained by one of Hansens employees. Its as biassed as it comes.
Well, sorry, I don't keep track of which websites are political shills. I just grabbed the first google link, because I don't want to be at this all day.
fat_boy wrote:
However, to quote the section you indicated: "the trees react weakly to any further temperature increase." SO its not a decline its a weak increase? I hardly think then they have answered the quesiton!
I'm no expert, but it looks like the particular trees in question are from one small region, and that region had some unusually-hot weather...Now, this link[^] shows some of the raw data, and it seems that one particular tree had a really odd growth pattern, and that was throwing off the calculations in the tree-ring study. Keep in mind that all of this data is going through some kind of formulaic translation, since they're getting tree ring data (Widths, I'd assume) and using those to derive temperature changes. "React weakly" does not necessarily translate to "weak increase"... You're playing with the words without understanding the context.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)Ian Shlasko wrote:
"React weakly" does not necessarily translate to "weak increase"...
No? So if it gets warmer, tree rings get wider, up to a point aparently, where they start to react weakly. Which means as it gets warmer, the rings dont get so wide. I dont see any implication a decline here, in temperature or tree ring width. Yes, and that ONE tree is famous. There is apic on the internet of it with a plaque attatched. Its quite funny, pitty I cant find the link, but basically, this one tree is behind the hockey stick, and all GW hysteria since!
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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fat_boy wrote:
Tell that to the eco-nazis
I invoke Godwins Law[^] - you lose!
You should never use standby on an elephant. It always crashes when you lift the ears. - Mark Wallace C/C++ (I dont see a huge difference between them, and the 'benefits' of C++ are questionable, who needs inheritance when you have copy and paste) - fat_boy
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Its a bunch of religious goobuldigluck. They disguise fairytales of ghosts of pink unicorns and flying spaghetti monsters inas random scientific sounding nonsense.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Its a bunch of religious goobuldigluck. They disguise fairytales of ghosts of pink unicorns and flying spaghetti monsters inas random scientific sounding nonsense.
But then, what do you know about anything?
Bob Emmett @ Ynys Thanatos
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
"React weakly" does not necessarily translate to "weak increase"...
No? So if it gets warmer, tree rings get wider, up to a point aparently, where they start to react weakly. Which means as it gets warmer, the rings dont get so wide. I dont see any implication a decline here, in temperature or tree ring width. Yes, and that ONE tree is famous. There is apic on the internet of it with a plaque attatched. Its quite funny, pitty I cant find the link, but basically, this one tree is behind the hockey stick, and all GW hysteria since!
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
I don't claim to understand the calculations they're doing... But supposedly the formula starts to fail around the '50s or '60s... As in the nearby thermometers show higher temperatures, but the tree rings don't correspond anymore. I found a little more explanation on the topic... Yes, it's a blog post, but then, so is most of our "evidence" nowadays... At least he quotes from a textbook. http://scienceblogs.com/islandofdoubt/2009/11/hacked_emails_tree-ring_proxie.php[^]
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel) -
Noooo, godwins lae is about mentioning Hitler, not a political position.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
Ha! You mentioned Hitler! You lose! :) Actually, Godwin's Law applies to mention of Nazis too. Anything that compares people or things to Hitler or the Nazis qualifies as a Godwin invocation, except for totalitarian regimes and dictators, which are obviously similar. So technically, "eco-nazis" does qualify.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel) -
They are criminals. When you commit a crime, you've made a mistake.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
All water ice is made from water; Not all water is ice. When you commit a crime, you've made a criminal mistake; When you make a mistake, you have not necessarily committed a crime. Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
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Scientists have been forced to withdraw a study on projected sea level rise due to global warming after finding mistakes that undermined the findings. The STUPID PIECE OF SHIT Climate Cultists need whipped with a leather belt. Stomped on, cursed at, spit on, and whipped some more. Filthy slimy pieces of trash. Whip their faces.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The STUPID PIECE OF sh*t Climate Cultists need whipped with a leather belt. Stomped on, cursed at, spit on, and whipped some more. Filthy slimy pieces of trash. Whip their faces.
As usual, you do so much to foster and encourage reasonable debate on these issues. It's not at all like you're a barely literate, clueless moron, who doesn't really care what the issue is, so long as he can abuse someone, as a way to feel better about himself and his pathetic, failed life.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Yes, quite agree. There must be hundreds of studies relating to climate change which are full of inacuracies and lies just waiting to be exposed.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
As someone else said, that's how science works. It's not a question of exposure, but of self correction over time, by scientists as a whole.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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You know it's enough just to say that you disagree or are pleased at the outcome or results; you don't know to get all melodramatic and spiteful: it detracts from your point and makes you look a bit, well, ignorant.
Tychotics: take us back to the moon "Life, for ever dying to be born afresh, for ever young and eager, will presently stand upon this earth as upon a footstool, and stretch out its realm amidst the stars." H. G. Wells
digital man wrote:
and makes you look a bit, well, ignorant.
You'd rather he kept it a secret ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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All water ice is made from water; Not all water is ice. When you commit a crime, you've made a criminal mistake; When you make a mistake, you have not necessarily committed a crime. Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
Your honor, my client would like to plead guilty to the charge of "Forgetting to carry the one."
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel) -
digital man wrote:
and makes you look a bit, well, ignorant.
You'd rather he kept it a secret ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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They committed outright fraud and perpetuated a fear-mongering lie using taxpayer dollars, and broke various other laws in the process. They destroyed science.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album (They sound very much like Metallica, great lyrics too)[^]
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
They committed outright fraud
No they didn't, they hadn't considered a couple of points that two other scientists pointed out to them.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
perpetuated a fear-mongering lie
Who is frightened, exactly? Why would anybody be afraid of a rise of 1.5m over 100 years? Not exactly a tsunami. Where is the lie? They published a paper giving sea-level projections and how they were arrived at. Are hurricane forecasts fear-mongering lies; or do they merely enable people to prepare appropriately, even though, in the event, the hurricane does not strike them?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
using taxpayer dollars
Taxpayers' pounds, actually.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
and broke various other laws in the process
Oh, do tell! Riding a bicycle without lights?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
They destroyed science
No, the incident shows that science is alive and well.
Bob Emmett @ Ynys Thanatos
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Ha! You mentioned Hitler! You lose! :) Actually, Godwin's Law applies to mention of Nazis too. Anything that compares people or things to Hitler or the Nazis qualifies as a Godwin invocation, except for totalitarian regimes and dictators, which are obviously similar. So technically, "eco-nazis" does qualify.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)Nazionalsocialism does not only apply to Germany post 1933. In fact this political movement was started prior to Hitler taking over the leadership. Ernst Rhomm for example was a prominent early leader, and in fact WAS the leader of the Brown Shirts, the defacto hard men of the Nazi party. Hitler otook out his competition for the leadership in the famous Night of the Long Knives where Rhomm and other prominent leaders wre killed.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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I don't claim to understand the calculations they're doing... But supposedly the formula starts to fail around the '50s or '60s... As in the nearby thermometers show higher temperatures, but the tree rings don't correspond anymore. I found a little more explanation on the topic... Yes, it's a blog post, but then, so is most of our "evidence" nowadays... At least he quotes from a textbook. http://scienceblogs.com/islandofdoubt/2009/11/hacked_emails_tree-ring_proxie.php[^]
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel) -
As someone else said, that's how science works. It's not a question of exposure, but of self correction over time, by scientists as a whole.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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So basically, as Mann and Briffa later state in your linki, tree rings are unreliable as hel and shouldnt be used, thus destroying the hockey stick entirely.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
After 1960, or whatever the exact year was, yes. So the CRU researchers obediently removed the tree ring data after that point (They had actual temperature readings anyway). That was what "hiding the decline" was.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel) -
After 1960, or whatever the exact year was, yes. So the CRU researchers obediently removed the tree ring data after that point (They had actual temperature readings anyway). That was what "hiding the decline" was.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)Nah, still dont buy it. If there is warming, and trees respnd weakly, then they will still show increased ring width. There is no decline there ot hode. The only decline possible is a decline in temperature or ring width. And hiding that is dishonest.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Bob Emmett wrote:
Who is frightened, exactly? Why would anybody be afraid of a rise of 1.5m over 100 years? Not exactly a tsunami.
Because they and their families have lived at 1.2 meters above MSL for 150 years? :)
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
Because they and their families have lived at 1.2 meters above MSL for 150 years?
Stilts? :) However, they can rest secure in the knowledge that concerned Governments and NGOs will spare no effort in resettling them before the end of the century. I understand that some[^] are ready to take their children now.
Bob Emmett @ Ynys Thanatos
