Big Numbers
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"Bugga"
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
"Wanka"
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After Yotta[^] I would like to suggest the "Harpa", "Chica" and "Groucha"
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
How About Slovenia ? :laugh:
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After Yotta[^] I would like to suggest the "Harpa", "Chica" and "Groucha"
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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RichardM1 wrote:
LOL! I like how it ends pre-Obama.
... and we don't even have to add the "a" to the end: obamabytes works without "change" ;P .
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since Obama has only been in office for a single budget year, i couldn't find any charts with his numbers.
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How about just stopping at yotta and extend by using existing designations for numbers of zeros, e.g. kiloyotta KY) is 27 zeros, MY is 30 zeros, and 72 zeros is yotta yotta yotta ...
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Holy crap, Batman![^] It looks like,just last year, Obama beat Bush's full 8 year deficit. :wtf: At this point in Bush's presidency, dems said none of Bush's problems were Clinton's fault.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
1. a projection != reality. any chart which makes any specific claims about the budget in 2012 is BS. 2. as i'm sure you're well aware, a lot of the Obama deficit projection is due to the fact that Obama is not hiding the cost of Bush's two wars in off-budget "emergency" spending, as Bush did. more importantly, the idea that Republicanism has anything to do with fiscal responsibility is truly laughable. there hasn't been a fically-responsible Republican in the White House in 50 years. not a single Republican President in modern times has done a single thing to lower the deficit.
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After Yotta[^] I would like to suggest the "Harpa", "Chica" and "Groucha"
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Did anyone else notice the "full" list (see below) of SI prefixes is only about half full? FULL LIST OF SI PREFIXES 10 = deca 100 = hecto 1,000 = kilo 1,000,000 = mega 1,000,000,000 = giga 1,000,000,000,000 = tera 1,000,000,000,000,000 = peta 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 = exa 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 = zetta 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 = yotta
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1. a projection != reality. any chart which makes any specific claims about the budget in 2012 is BS. 2. as i'm sure you're well aware, a lot of the Obama deficit projection is due to the fact that Obama is not hiding the cost of Bush's two wars in off-budget "emergency" spending, as Bush did. more importantly, the idea that Republicanism has anything to do with fiscal responsibility is truly laughable. there hasn't been a fically-responsible Republican in the White House in 50 years. not a single Republican President in modern times has done a single thing to lower the deficit.
Chris Losinger wrote:
a projection != reality.
LOL! The chart you used (which seems to be from 2009.01) spoke to Bush's 2008 deficit. In 2010.02, I only spoke to Obama's 2009 huge deficit. Apples to apples.
Chris Losinger wrote:
any chart which makes any specific claims about the budget in 2012 is BS
Freaking A! I think you should tell those totally hosed, deluded stupids in the Obama administration and the dem controlled CBO to stop lying to the US people by underestimating!:mad:
Chris Losinger wrote:
a lot of the Obama deficit projection is due to the fact that Obama is not hiding the cost of Bush's two wars in off-budget "emergency" spending
While Bush's 'Budgets' did not include the war costs, the deficits in the chart shown do include the war costs. :) Again, Obama (who really has come to 'own' the Afghan war, don't you think?), in his first year has almost out-deficited Bush's eight years. :wtf: According to these obviously pro-war folks, Iraq is about 710 giga bucks, Afghani about 260 giga bucks.[^] So ALL of Bush's hidden war funding, PLUS the open Obama funding is less than 1000 giga bucks. The DoD is asking for less than 200 giga bucks for 2011. You don't think Obama would let them lie about the cost,do you? So the entire cost of both wars is a little more than half of Obama's first deficit. In other words, that lie does not float, less than 20% of the deficit is war costs.
Chris Losinger wrote:
the idea that Republicanism has anything to do with fiscal responsibility is truly laughable
Where exactly did you see me say anything positive about reps? :confused: This is one of the many reasons I am not a rep! Another is so I can remind upstanding finger pointers like you that you don't have to be a rep to know the dems are truly screwed up. :rolleyes:
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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Chris Losinger wrote:
a projection != reality.
LOL! The chart you used (which seems to be from 2009.01) spoke to Bush's 2008 deficit. In 2010.02, I only spoke to Obama's 2009 huge deficit. Apples to apples.
Chris Losinger wrote:
any chart which makes any specific claims about the budget in 2012 is BS
Freaking A! I think you should tell those totally hosed, deluded stupids in the Obama administration and the dem controlled CBO to stop lying to the US people by underestimating!:mad:
Chris Losinger wrote:
a lot of the Obama deficit projection is due to the fact that Obama is not hiding the cost of Bush's two wars in off-budget "emergency" spending
While Bush's 'Budgets' did not include the war costs, the deficits in the chart shown do include the war costs. :) Again, Obama (who really has come to 'own' the Afghan war, don't you think?), in his first year has almost out-deficited Bush's eight years. :wtf: According to these obviously pro-war folks, Iraq is about 710 giga bucks, Afghani about 260 giga bucks.[^] So ALL of Bush's hidden war funding, PLUS the open Obama funding is less than 1000 giga bucks. The DoD is asking for less than 200 giga bucks for 2011. You don't think Obama would let them lie about the cost,do you? So the entire cost of both wars is a little more than half of Obama's first deficit. In other words, that lie does not float, less than 20% of the deficit is war costs.
Chris Losinger wrote:
the idea that Republicanism has anything to do with fiscal responsibility is truly laughable
Where exactly did you see me say anything positive about reps? :confused: This is one of the many reasons I am not a rep! Another is so I can remind upstanding finger pointers like you that you don't have to be a rep to know the dems are truly screwed up. :rolleyes:
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
The chart you used (which seems to be from 2009.01) spoke to Bush's 2008 deficit.
go ahead, look up the real numbers. i'll wait.
RichardM1 wrote:
So the entire cost of both wars is a little more than half of Obama's first deficit.
i like the implication that a new president starts with a clean slate, a completely balanced budget, and nothing the previous administration did has any effect on anything. it's as if the recession started on inauguration day, as if the structural elements of the budget magically came into being 1/09. it's awesome! best of all, your precious republicans remain blameless - it' all Obama's fault! yay for W !
RichardM1 wrote:
I think you should tell those totally hosed, deluded stupids in the Obama administration and the dem controlled CBO to stop lying to the US people by underestimating!
right right. it's a big conspiracy. and it's all the Dem's fault. typical Republican idiocy.
RichardM1 wrote:
Where exactly did you see me say anything positive about reps? Confused This is one of the many reasons I am not a rep!
for someone who's "not a rep", you sure do spend a lot of effort defending them. in fact, it's about all you've done here. therefore, i call BS.
image processing toolkits | batch image processing
modified on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 7:02 PM
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RichardM1 wrote:
The chart you used (which seems to be from 2009.01) spoke to Bush's 2008 deficit.
go ahead, look up the real numbers. i'll wait.
RichardM1 wrote:
So the entire cost of both wars is a little more than half of Obama's first deficit.
i like the implication that a new president starts with a clean slate, a completely balanced budget, and nothing the previous administration did has any effect on anything. it's as if the recession started on inauguration day, as if the structural elements of the budget magically came into being 1/09. it's awesome! best of all, your precious republicans remain blameless - it' all Obama's fault! yay for W !
RichardM1 wrote:
I think you should tell those totally hosed, deluded stupids in the Obama administration and the dem controlled CBO to stop lying to the US people by underestimating!
right right. it's a big conspiracy. and it's all the Dem's fault. typical Republican idiocy.
RichardM1 wrote:
Where exactly did you see me say anything positive about reps? Confused This is one of the many reasons I am not a rep!
for someone who's "not a rep", you sure do spend a lot of effort defending them. in fact, it's about all you've done here. therefore, i call BS.
image processing toolkits | batch image processing
modified on Wednesday, March 3, 2010 7:02 PM
Chris Losinger wrote:
go ahead, look up the real numbers. i'll wait.
I never questioned your numbers, just your representation.
Chris Losinger wrote:
i like the implication that a new president starts with a clean slate, a completely balanced budget, and nothing the previous administration did has any effect on anything.
I did not imply that, you inferred it. I said your statement blaming the size of Obama's deficit on the Iraq and Afghan wars is a flat lie (or willful ignorance, I will give you that). It is less than 20% of the deficit.
Chris Losinger wrote:
right right. it's a big conspiracy. and it's all the Dem's fault. typical Republican idiocy.
:confused: But YOU said "any chart which makes any specific claims about the budget in 2012 is BS." I was just agreeing with you. The chart you called BS on had White House and CBO numbers. I just pointed out, in a sarcastic manner, that they are both dem controlled.
Chris Losinger wrote:
for someone who's "not a rep", you sure do spend a lot of effort defending them. in fact, it's about all you've done here. therefore, i call BS.
No, I have not defended any reps in this thread. What I did was: 1) Say Obama has out-deficited Bush 2) Pointed out flaws in your reasoning and facts Just because I believe Obama (and your unquestioning support of him in this thread) is f'd up, does not mean that I support f'd up reps. Let me put it a different way.
You have two enemies.
They are enemies of each other.
Neither is your friend.You might support one, when the other is too powerful, but don't think they're your friend. Or you end up X|
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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Chris Losinger wrote:
go ahead, look up the real numbers. i'll wait.
I never questioned your numbers, just your representation.
Chris Losinger wrote:
i like the implication that a new president starts with a clean slate, a completely balanced budget, and nothing the previous administration did has any effect on anything.
I did not imply that, you inferred it. I said your statement blaming the size of Obama's deficit on the Iraq and Afghan wars is a flat lie (or willful ignorance, I will give you that). It is less than 20% of the deficit.
Chris Losinger wrote:
right right. it's a big conspiracy. and it's all the Dem's fault. typical Republican idiocy.
:confused: But YOU said "any chart which makes any specific claims about the budget in 2012 is BS." I was just agreeing with you. The chart you called BS on had White House and CBO numbers. I just pointed out, in a sarcastic manner, that they are both dem controlled.
Chris Losinger wrote:
for someone who's "not a rep", you sure do spend a lot of effort defending them. in fact, it's about all you've done here. therefore, i call BS.
No, I have not defended any reps in this thread. What I did was: 1) Say Obama has out-deficited Bush 2) Pointed out flaws in your reasoning and facts Just because I believe Obama (and your unquestioning support of him in this thread) is f'd up, does not mean that I support f'd up reps. Let me put it a different way.
You have two enemies.
They are enemies of each other.
Neither is your friend.You might support one, when the other is too powerful, but don't think they're your friend. Or you end up X|
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
I just pointed out, in a sarcastic manner, that they are both dem controlled.
right, it's a big conspiracy. CBO helicopters aren't black though, they're a deep gray.
RichardM1 wrote:
I said your statement blaming the size of Obama's deficit on the Iraq and Afghan wars is a flat lie
it is part of the increase. i never said it was the whole increase.
RichardM1 wrote:
No, I have not defended any reps in this thread.
OMFG :laugh: when you stand in front of the goal, trying to block shots, nobody wonders what team you're playing for.
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RichardM1 wrote:
I just pointed out, in a sarcastic manner, that they are both dem controlled.
right, it's a big conspiracy. CBO helicopters aren't black though, they're a deep gray.
RichardM1 wrote:
I said your statement blaming the size of Obama's deficit on the Iraq and Afghan wars is a flat lie
it is part of the increase. i never said it was the whole increase.
RichardM1 wrote:
No, I have not defended any reps in this thread.
OMFG :laugh: when you stand in front of the goal, trying to block shots, nobody wonders what team you're playing for.
Chris Losinger wrote:
RichardM1 wrote: I just pointed out, in a sarcastic manner, that they are both dem controlled. right, it's a big conspiracy.
No, neither side is good enough to run a big conspiracy. But I guess you are right. Last year proved that the dems, even with the presidency, a super majority in the senate and majority in the house, can't control much of anything. The reps didn't get anything productive done when they had full control, either, so don't feel too bad.
Chris Losinger wrote:
it is part of the increase. i never said it was the whole increase.
No, you did not say the whole increase, you said:
Chris Losinger wrote:
a lot of the Obama deficit projection is due to the fact that Obama is not hiding the cost of Bush's two wars in off-budget "emergency" spending
'A lot' is an adverb meaning a good deal, a great deal, much, very much[^] That translates to 'Wah! Wah!, It's Bush's fault'. So don't be a wimp, stickup for what you said. Make your party be responsible for their own decisions! What am I saying? This is politics, it's always the other guys fault.
Chris Losinger wrote:
when you stand in front of the goal, trying to block shots, nobody wonders what team you're playing for.
I'm not standing in the goal, blocking shots. I'm standing in front of you, kicking groin shots. :wtf: When I see misrepresented facts, I call it, either side. Even if I was standing in your goal, do you see the reps even being able to make any shots for me to block? It would have been easier for me to block rep shoots if I was standing in their goal. Self-GOOOOOAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLL!!!!! If I said I thought Bush had spent like a drunken sailor and kicked the crap out of the bill of rights (which I do), do you think this would have been interesting at all? Shoot, you probably would not even have commented.:cool:
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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Chris Losinger wrote:
RichardM1 wrote: I just pointed out, in a sarcastic manner, that they are both dem controlled. right, it's a big conspiracy.
No, neither side is good enough to run a big conspiracy. But I guess you are right. Last year proved that the dems, even with the presidency, a super majority in the senate and majority in the house, can't control much of anything. The reps didn't get anything productive done when they had full control, either, so don't feel too bad.
Chris Losinger wrote:
it is part of the increase. i never said it was the whole increase.
No, you did not say the whole increase, you said:
Chris Losinger wrote:
a lot of the Obama deficit projection is due to the fact that Obama is not hiding the cost of Bush's two wars in off-budget "emergency" spending
'A lot' is an adverb meaning a good deal, a great deal, much, very much[^] That translates to 'Wah! Wah!, It's Bush's fault'. So don't be a wimp, stickup for what you said. Make your party be responsible for their own decisions! What am I saying? This is politics, it's always the other guys fault.
Chris Losinger wrote:
when you stand in front of the goal, trying to block shots, nobody wonders what team you're playing for.
I'm not standing in the goal, blocking shots. I'm standing in front of you, kicking groin shots. :wtf: When I see misrepresented facts, I call it, either side. Even if I was standing in your goal, do you see the reps even being able to make any shots for me to block? It would have been easier for me to block rep shoots if I was standing in their goal. Self-GOOOOOAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLL!!!!! If I said I thought Bush had spent like a drunken sailor and kicked the crap out of the bill of rights (which I do), do you think this would have been interesting at all? Shoot, you probably would not even have commented.:cool:
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
Last year proved that the dems, even with the presidency, a super majority in the senate and majority in the house, can't control much of anything.
no fault of anyone else, of course. three years of record-setting use of the filibuster? pshaw - never happened! the Senate Dems are feckless, no doubt. but t would take a real fool to blame them for the laughably hypocritical abuse of procedure that the GOP has been up to.
RichardM1 wrote:
That translates to 'Wah! Wah!, It's Bush's fault'.
only in your mind.
RichardM1 wrote:
When I see misrepresented facts, I call it, either side.
sorry, i don't believe it. not even a little. it's one thing to play the argument game, it's quite another to recite "conservative" talking points.
RichardM1 wrote:
So don't be a wimp, stickup for what you said.
i have been. that it isn't what you want me to have said isn't my fault.
RichardM1 wrote:
Make your party be responsible for their own decisions!
i'm not ? how could you possibly know either way ?
RichardM1 wrote:
Even if I was standing in your goal, do you see the reps even being able to make any shots for me to block?
why, yes.
RichardM1 wrote:
If I said I thought Bush had spent like a drunken sailor and kicked the crap out of the bill of rights (which I do), do you think this would have been interesting at all?
i do love this new truth that Bush wasn't a real "conservative". wash your hands! don't worry. nobody noticed the eight years of hero-worship!
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RichardM1 wrote:
Last year proved that the dems, even with the presidency, a super majority in the senate and majority in the house, can't control much of anything.
no fault of anyone else, of course. three years of record-setting use of the filibuster? pshaw - never happened! the Senate Dems are feckless, no doubt. but t would take a real fool to blame them for the laughably hypocritical abuse of procedure that the GOP has been up to.
RichardM1 wrote:
That translates to 'Wah! Wah!, It's Bush's fault'.
only in your mind.
RichardM1 wrote:
When I see misrepresented facts, I call it, either side.
sorry, i don't believe it. not even a little. it's one thing to play the argument game, it's quite another to recite "conservative" talking points.
RichardM1 wrote:
So don't be a wimp, stickup for what you said.
i have been. that it isn't what you want me to have said isn't my fault.
RichardM1 wrote:
Make your party be responsible for their own decisions!
i'm not ? how could you possibly know either way ?
RichardM1 wrote:
Even if I was standing in your goal, do you see the reps even being able to make any shots for me to block?
why, yes.
RichardM1 wrote:
If I said I thought Bush had spent like a drunken sailor and kicked the crap out of the bill of rights (which I do), do you think this would have been interesting at all?
i do love this new truth that Bush wasn't a real "conservative". wash your hands! don't worry. nobody noticed the eight years of hero-worship!
Chris Losinger wrote:
no fault of anyone else, of course. three years of record-setting use of the filibuster? pshaw - never happened!
That's right, three years of filibustering blocked obamacare. Against a dem supermajority. How does that work again? :doh: But for the argument: Check the stats[^], Last time the dems became a minority, they had a record number of filibusters, too. Goes around,comes around. :shrug:
Chris Losinger wrote:
sorry, i don't believe it.
I can't help you there. I know my opinions. :suss: If I disbelieve that you're stupid, does it change your intelligence?
Chris Losinger wrote:
recite "conservative" talking points
What I did was provide facts that were inconsistent with your conjectures. Since I don't know them, which conservative talking points correlated with the facts I gave? So I don't use them again, which facts did I give that were wrong?
Chris Losinger wrote:
RichardM1 wrote: So don't be a wimp, stickup for what you said. i have been. that it isn't what you want me to have said isn't my fault.
First you say the WH/CBO deficit numbers are BS, then when I agree with you, you say I'm calling it a big conspiracy. I don't see how that is sticking up for what you said.
Chris Losinger wrote:
RichardM1 wrote: Make your party be responsible for their own decisions! i'm not ?
That's right, you're not. You're blaming reps for dems' decisions Talk about reciting talking points! :rolleyes: Next you'll be calling me a racist!
Chris Losinger wrote:
RichardM1 wrote: do you see the reps even being able to make any shots for me to block? why, yes.
OK, they have some power since Mass wouldn't elect a dem, but even that happened because of dem decisions. Same way the dems came into power based on incompetent rep decisions.
Chris Losinger wrote:
i do love this new truth that Bush
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Chris Losinger wrote:
no fault of anyone else, of course. three years of record-setting use of the filibuster? pshaw - never happened!
That's right, three years of filibustering blocked obamacare. Against a dem supermajority. How does that work again? :doh: But for the argument: Check the stats[^], Last time the dems became a minority, they had a record number of filibusters, too. Goes around,comes around. :shrug:
Chris Losinger wrote:
sorry, i don't believe it.
I can't help you there. I know my opinions. :suss: If I disbelieve that you're stupid, does it change your intelligence?
Chris Losinger wrote:
recite "conservative" talking points
What I did was provide facts that were inconsistent with your conjectures. Since I don't know them, which conservative talking points correlated with the facts I gave? So I don't use them again, which facts did I give that were wrong?
Chris Losinger wrote:
RichardM1 wrote: So don't be a wimp, stickup for what you said. i have been. that it isn't what you want me to have said isn't my fault.
First you say the WH/CBO deficit numbers are BS, then when I agree with you, you say I'm calling it a big conspiracy. I don't see how that is sticking up for what you said.
Chris Losinger wrote:
RichardM1 wrote: Make your party be responsible for their own decisions! i'm not ?
That's right, you're not. You're blaming reps for dems' decisions Talk about reciting talking points! :rolleyes: Next you'll be calling me a racist!
Chris Losinger wrote:
RichardM1 wrote: do you see the reps even being able to make any shots for me to block? why, yes.
OK, they have some power since Mass wouldn't elect a dem, but even that happened because of dem decisions. Same way the dems came into power based on incompetent rep decisions.
Chris Losinger wrote:
i do love this new truth that Bush
RichardM1 wrote:
That's right, three years of filibustering blocked obamacare.
i suppose it wouldn't do any good to point out that Obama has only been President for 1 year, that your team's love of the filibuster started in 2006, and that all the bills in Congress were written by Congressmen and not Obama. facts, schmacts !
RichardM1 wrote:
Last time the dems became a minority, they had a record number of filibusters, too.
and the GOP is currently set to double that record. as for the rest of your rant... whatever. maybe you're ashamed to admit you're a Republican. it's OK, i understand. i would be too. but, you're not fooling anyone.
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RichardM1 wrote:
That's right, three years of filibustering blocked obamacare.
i suppose it wouldn't do any good to point out that Obama has only been President for 1 year, that your team's love of the filibuster started in 2006, and that all the bills in Congress were written by Congressmen and not Obama. facts, schmacts !
RichardM1 wrote:
Last time the dems became a minority, they had a record number of filibusters, too.
and the GOP is currently set to double that record. as for the rest of your rant... whatever. maybe you're ashamed to admit you're a Republican. it's OK, i understand. i would be too. but, you're not fooling anyone.
Chris Losinger wrote:
whatever. maybe you're ashamed to admit you're a Republican. it's OK, i understand. i would be too. but, you're not fooling anyone.
So all you got was "blah blah blah - disagrees with me - must be a rep"? "No. Really. If you don't agree with me, you are a rep." "Guy says he isn't a rep. That makes him a liar. That makes him a rep." "Facts to back up position? Clearly isn't a dem. That makes him a rep." "Did I mention? reps are bad, so anything dems do is OK." :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer: :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer: :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer: :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer: Here, have a case. Your gonna need these to get through life.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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Chris Losinger wrote:
whatever. maybe you're ashamed to admit you're a Republican. it's OK, i understand. i would be too. but, you're not fooling anyone.
So all you got was "blah blah blah - disagrees with me - must be a rep"? "No. Really. If you don't agree with me, you are a rep." "Guy says he isn't a rep. That makes him a liar. That makes him a rep." "Facts to back up position? Clearly isn't a dem. That makes him a rep." "Did I mention? reps are bad, so anything dems do is OK." :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer: :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer: :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer: :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer: Here, have a case. Your gonna need these to get through life.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
So all you got was "blah blah blah - disagrees with me - must be a rep"?
actually no. it was the fact that all of your arguments are boilerplate GOP talking points. as i've said before.
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RichardM1 wrote:
So all you got was "blah blah blah - disagrees with me - must be a rep"?
actually no. it was the fact that all of your arguments are boilerplate GOP talking points. as i've said before.
Chris Losinger wrote:
it was the fact that all of your arguments are boilerplate GOP talking points.
I responded to your comments with facts that I got from googling (googleing ?). I provided citations to the facts I presented. One link was to the Heritage Foundation, showing WH and CBO numbers, the others were to either neutral or antiwar sights. What fact did I give that was incorrect, or taken out of context, to support what I said? Seriously, the argument aside, are you just yanking my chain? If you can't point out the errors with my arguments, and can't accept them, you are not looking at the reality of the situation. If you are just yanking my chain, I'll go on debating it. If you really can't see that it is possible to come to the conclusions I have, without being in the GOP, or starting from their talking points, you need to step back and rethink ... something. Do you really think that the dems can't be wrong, facts be damned? Sometimes, when the dems say the reps are f'd up, they are right. And sometimes, when the reps say the dems are f'd up, they are right. Most of the time, when either side says they are right, they are wrong.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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Chris Losinger wrote:
it was the fact that all of your arguments are boilerplate GOP talking points.
I responded to your comments with facts that I got from googling (googleing ?). I provided citations to the facts I presented. One link was to the Heritage Foundation, showing WH and CBO numbers, the others were to either neutral or antiwar sights. What fact did I give that was incorrect, or taken out of context, to support what I said? Seriously, the argument aside, are you just yanking my chain? If you can't point out the errors with my arguments, and can't accept them, you are not looking at the reality of the situation. If you are just yanking my chain, I'll go on debating it. If you really can't see that it is possible to come to the conclusions I have, without being in the GOP, or starting from their talking points, you need to step back and rethink ... something. Do you really think that the dems can't be wrong, facts be damned? Sometimes, when the dems say the reps are f'd up, they are right. And sometimes, when the reps say the dems are f'd up, they are right. Most of the time, when either side says they are right, they are wrong.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
If you can't point out the errors with my arguments, and can't accept them, you are not looking at the reality of the situation.
honestly, i'm not sure what you're arguing any more. is your point that the deficit is bigger under Obama? well, yes, of course it is: all the things that go into making a deficit are worse for Obama than they were for Bush. and many of those things are not Obama's fault. he inherited Bush's un-payed-for wars (and has failed to stop them). he inherited Bush's budding recession (and has failed to stop it, but is at least trying). he inherited Bush's irresponsible tax cuts (and added some more of his own, though the GOP has made sure that nobody knows that he cut taxes on 95% of working class Americans). he inherited structural spending increases which are outside the control of any president. he has spent a lot of money trying to keep our economy from going tits-up, but it's a ridiculous fantasy to think things these would've been much different under McCain. especially giver that the biggest budget items are all essentially immune from spending reduction (military, Medicare, SS). so, yes, while i think Obama has made a lot of mistakes, the deficit isn't one of them. as i said above: a lot of it is structural, a lot of it is due to the economy, and a lot of it is due to spending that no president would touch.
RichardM1 wrote:
Do you really think that the dems can't be wrong, facts be damned?
got any evidence to support the idea that i think such a thing ? my basic point is that the modern GOP has absolutely no claim to be the party of fiscal responsibility - at least at the national level. they have no record of deficit reduction; quite the opposite, in fact - every GOP president from Reagan onward has increased the deficit. the GOP's reputation for being fiscally conservative is a myth - an enduring one, sure. but it's a myth nonetheless. only Dems have reduced the deficit. i don't think that makes the Dems the party of fiscal responsibility, though. it just means that a reduced deficit is possible, but the GOP is not actually interested in doing it - at least not when they're in power. yes, they love to scream about responsibility when they're in the minority - oh how they love to scream - but it's just talk. it's a way to sell the GOP to people who can't be bothered to look at a chart or two. a.k.a. rubes. the Dems
