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US Transportation Secretary and Bikes

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  • C Chris Maunder

    Unless bike lanes are separated from main roads via a moat, preferably filled with sharks with laser beams strapped to their heads, people who feel that their tax dollars give them more right to the road than my tax dollars will still do that thing where they try and see what happens when a wing mirror hits a bicycle helmet. Lanes aren't needed. Sharks with friggin' laser beamsA different attitude is.

    cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP

    C Offline
    C Offline
    Christopher Duncan
    wrote on last edited by
    #18

    Chris Maunder wrote:

    who feel that their tax dollars give them more right to the road than my tax dollars

    Not to stick my head in the lion's mouth (or laser guided sharks, if you prefer), but I've never been able to accept this justifation. Like many intellectual exercises, the math may work out okay on paper but it doesn't always mesh well with reality. There are countless nature trails dedicated to hikers and cyclists. If a group of bikers wanted to take their souped up, 1 gazillion horsepower, no muffler trail bikes and tear up and down the nature paths, they could well argue that their tax dollars give them just as much right to the road as anyone else. Nonetheless, I would see that as a gross violation of the purpose for which the trails were built and find the bikers' actions offensive and out of place. Once upon a time, roads were used by horses. Eventually, when automobiles came along, construction and maintenance of roads changed to support motorized transport. Since roads were once the domain of horses and the like, Farmer Jones could drive his 20 mule team down the middle of 2nd Avenue in New York and claim with much righteous indignation that he had just as much right to the road as anyone else. And tax dollar for tax dollar, the man's got a point. But his 20 mule team interferes with the other 99.99999% of people who use the roads for motorized transport. It's not just unrealistic. It's inconsiderate and an example of an attitude which dictates that the needs of the many must bow to the needs of the few. Modern roadways are meant for motorized transport, and from both a productivity and safety point of view it's simply not realistic to insist on bicycles and cars being treated as equals. However, until a better solution presents itself (I'm sure the shark and laser manufacturers are gearing up their lobbyists even as we speak), I thought that an attempt to redesign roadways so that they are more conducive to supporting both types of traffic was a step in the right direction.

    Chris Maunder wrote:

    see what happens when a wing mirror hits a bicycle helmet. ... Lanes aren't needed. Sharks with friggin' laser beams A different attitude is.

    Now you're talking about a completely different topic. If you can find a way to rid the human race of assholes with bad attitudes (without the plan involving putting Nazis in charge), sign me up. If you think that cyclists are the o

    M C J 3 Replies Last reply
    0
    • G Gary Wheeler

      Chris Maunder wrote:

      Lanes aren't needed. Sharks with friggin' laser beams A different attitude is.

      Bikes that mount an anti-tank weapon with a recoil management system are what's needed.

      Software Zen: delete this;

      C Offline
      C Offline
      Christopher Duncan
      wrote on last edited by
      #19

      Trust me, there are days I'd like to mount one of these on my Vette as well, and certainly not for the cyclists.

      Christopher Duncan
      www.PracticalUSA.com
      Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
      Copywriting Services

      G 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • C Christopher Duncan

        Trust me, there are days I'd like to mount one of these on my Vette as well, and certainly not for the cyclists.

        Christopher Duncan
        www.PracticalUSA.com
        Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
        Copywriting Services

        G Offline
        G Offline
        Gary Wheeler
        wrote on last edited by
        #20

        I understand; I'd like one for my Civic, as well as the bike. With the Civic I could carry additional ammo, in case I needed to reload.

        Software Zen: delete this;

        C 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • G Gary Wheeler

          I understand; I'd like one for my Civic, as well as the bike. With the Civic I could carry additional ammo, in case I needed to reload.

          Software Zen: delete this;

          C Offline
          C Offline
          Christopher Duncan
          wrote on last edited by
          #21

          A friend of mine is into model rocketry, and some of his are 6 or 7 feet long. So, he & the family are headed to a launch one day with several strapped, nose pointing forward, to the top of his Honda Pilot. As his wife was getting in the car she took in the visual and said, "You know we're going to get pulled over, right?"

          Christopher Duncan
          www.PracticalUSA.com
          Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
          Copywriting Services

          G 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • G Gary Wheeler

            One of the tech writers on my product was hit by a driver about 10 years ago who was passing improperly. Tom was in the hospital for weeks, and has an amazing set of scars. It took him a long time to be able and willing to ride a bike again, and he is still extremely shy of riding streets.

            Software Zen: delete this;

            L Offline
            L Offline
            Lost User
            wrote on last edited by
            #22

            I was riding to work at Bell Labs in Andover about 25 years ago or so, going down a hill in Haverhill, when an 86 year old guy, half blinded with cataracts, passed me and then made a right turn into a driveway directly in front of me. I had nowhere to go, t-boned the side of the car, and, as the bike flipped into the air, I was literally screwed under the car frame, with my legs still tangled in the bike. The guy stopped, looked around and didn't see anything (I was under the car), and started to drive off, dragging me under the vehicle. I was sliding backwards towards the rear wheels, with my head about to go under one, when I managed to get the fingers of one hand into the window sill on the rear door and pivot my body away from the wheels. It was still touch and go when someone ran in front of the car, screaming 'Stop your car, you f#$%ing old fool!' I'm laying on the ground, watching under the car, as a pair of geriatric support shoes emerge and hit the pavement, and a quavery old voice says 'What I hit, anyway?' :suss:

            L u n a t i c F r i n g e

            G 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • C Christopher Duncan

              A friend of mine is into model rocketry, and some of his are 6 or 7 feet long. So, he & the family are headed to a launch one day with several strapped, nose pointing forward, to the top of his Honda Pilot. As his wife was getting in the car she took in the visual and said, "You know we're going to get pulled over, right?"

              Christopher Duncan
              www.PracticalUSA.com
              Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
              Copywriting Services

              G Offline
              G Offline
              Gary Wheeler
              wrote on last edited by
              #23

              That is just too awesome for words :laugh:.

              Software Zen: delete this;

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • L Lost User

                I was riding to work at Bell Labs in Andover about 25 years ago or so, going down a hill in Haverhill, when an 86 year old guy, half blinded with cataracts, passed me and then made a right turn into a driveway directly in front of me. I had nowhere to go, t-boned the side of the car, and, as the bike flipped into the air, I was literally screwed under the car frame, with my legs still tangled in the bike. The guy stopped, looked around and didn't see anything (I was under the car), and started to drive off, dragging me under the vehicle. I was sliding backwards towards the rear wheels, with my head about to go under one, when I managed to get the fingers of one hand into the window sill on the rear door and pivot my body away from the wheels. It was still touch and go when someone ran in front of the car, screaming 'Stop your car, you f#$%ing old fool!' I'm laying on the ground, watching under the car, as a pair of geriatric support shoes emerge and hit the pavement, and a quavery old voice says 'What I hit, anyway?' :suss:

                L u n a t i c F r i n g e

                G Offline
                G Offline
                Gary Wheeler
                wrote on last edited by
                #24

                Good lord.

                Software Zen: delete this;

                L 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • C Christopher Duncan

                  Chris Maunder wrote:

                  who feel that their tax dollars give them more right to the road than my tax dollars

                  Not to stick my head in the lion's mouth (or laser guided sharks, if you prefer), but I've never been able to accept this justifation. Like many intellectual exercises, the math may work out okay on paper but it doesn't always mesh well with reality. There are countless nature trails dedicated to hikers and cyclists. If a group of bikers wanted to take their souped up, 1 gazillion horsepower, no muffler trail bikes and tear up and down the nature paths, they could well argue that their tax dollars give them just as much right to the road as anyone else. Nonetheless, I would see that as a gross violation of the purpose for which the trails were built and find the bikers' actions offensive and out of place. Once upon a time, roads were used by horses. Eventually, when automobiles came along, construction and maintenance of roads changed to support motorized transport. Since roads were once the domain of horses and the like, Farmer Jones could drive his 20 mule team down the middle of 2nd Avenue in New York and claim with much righteous indignation that he had just as much right to the road as anyone else. And tax dollar for tax dollar, the man's got a point. But his 20 mule team interferes with the other 99.99999% of people who use the roads for motorized transport. It's not just unrealistic. It's inconsiderate and an example of an attitude which dictates that the needs of the many must bow to the needs of the few. Modern roadways are meant for motorized transport, and from both a productivity and safety point of view it's simply not realistic to insist on bicycles and cars being treated as equals. However, until a better solution presents itself (I'm sure the shark and laser manufacturers are gearing up their lobbyists even as we speak), I thought that an attempt to redesign roadways so that they are more conducive to supporting both types of traffic was a step in the right direction.

                  Chris Maunder wrote:

                  see what happens when a wing mirror hits a bicycle helmet. ... Lanes aren't needed. Sharks with friggin' laser beams A different attitude is.

                  Now you're talking about a completely different topic. If you can find a way to rid the human race of assholes with bad attitudes (without the plan involving putting Nazis in charge), sign me up. If you think that cyclists are the o

                  M Offline
                  M Offline
                  Mustafa Ismail Mustafa
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #25

                  Christopher Duncan wrote:

                  I'm sure the shark and laser manufacturers

                  Wow. I wan't to work in Georgia where sharks are made! :-D Silliness indulged. You can go back to your regular postings...

                  If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?

                  C 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • G Gary Wheeler

                    Good lord.

                    Software Zen: delete this;

                    L Offline
                    L Offline
                    Lost User
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #26

                    Yeah, that's my scariest bike/car encounter story. Not the only one, but the scariest.

                    L u n a t i c F r i n g e

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • M Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

                      Christopher Duncan wrote:

                      I'm sure the shark and laser manufacturers

                      Wow. I wan't to work in Georgia where sharks are made! :-D Silliness indulged. You can go back to your regular postings...

                      If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?

                      C Offline
                      C Offline
                      Christopher Duncan
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #27

                      Actually, they're made in Florida[^]. We just import them. :-D

                      Christopher Duncan
                      www.PracticalUSA.com
                      Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
                      Copywriting Services

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • G Gary Wheeler

                        Chris Maunder wrote:

                        Lanes aren't needed. Sharks with friggin' laser beams A different attitude is.

                        Bikes that mount an anti-tank weapon with a recoil management system are what's needed.

                        Software Zen: delete this;

                        D Offline
                        D Offline
                        Dan Neely
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #28

                        Missles (atgm, rpg, "recoilless rifles") have minimal recoil. You need to make sure you're not in the backblast though. On the plus side you can crisp the idiot tailgating you as part of a 2 for 1 special. :laugh:

                        3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18

                        G C 2 Replies Last reply
                        0
                        • C Christopher Duncan

                          Chris Maunder wrote:

                          who feel that their tax dollars give them more right to the road than my tax dollars

                          Not to stick my head in the lion's mouth (or laser guided sharks, if you prefer), but I've never been able to accept this justifation. Like many intellectual exercises, the math may work out okay on paper but it doesn't always mesh well with reality. There are countless nature trails dedicated to hikers and cyclists. If a group of bikers wanted to take their souped up, 1 gazillion horsepower, no muffler trail bikes and tear up and down the nature paths, they could well argue that their tax dollars give them just as much right to the road as anyone else. Nonetheless, I would see that as a gross violation of the purpose for which the trails were built and find the bikers' actions offensive and out of place. Once upon a time, roads were used by horses. Eventually, when automobiles came along, construction and maintenance of roads changed to support motorized transport. Since roads were once the domain of horses and the like, Farmer Jones could drive his 20 mule team down the middle of 2nd Avenue in New York and claim with much righteous indignation that he had just as much right to the road as anyone else. And tax dollar for tax dollar, the man's got a point. But his 20 mule team interferes with the other 99.99999% of people who use the roads for motorized transport. It's not just unrealistic. It's inconsiderate and an example of an attitude which dictates that the needs of the many must bow to the needs of the few. Modern roadways are meant for motorized transport, and from both a productivity and safety point of view it's simply not realistic to insist on bicycles and cars being treated as equals. However, until a better solution presents itself (I'm sure the shark and laser manufacturers are gearing up their lobbyists even as we speak), I thought that an attempt to redesign roadways so that they are more conducive to supporting both types of traffic was a step in the right direction.

                          Chris Maunder wrote:

                          see what happens when a wing mirror hits a bicycle helmet. ... Lanes aren't needed. Sharks with friggin' laser beams A different attitude is.

                          Now you're talking about a completely different topic. If you can find a way to rid the human race of assholes with bad attitudes (without the plan involving putting Nazis in charge), sign me up. If you think that cyclists are the o

                          C Offline
                          C Offline
                          Chris Maunder
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #29

                          Christopher Duncan wrote:

                          Chris Maunder wrote: who feel that their tax dollars give them more right to the road than my tax dollars Not to stick my head in the lion's mouth (or laser guided sharks, if you prefer), but I've never been able to accept this justifation

                          This whole thing certainly does need to be put in context. The specific situations I find are: - riding along on a two-lane-per-direction road, and having cars get cranky because they aren't able to drive using both lanes at once - riding along a deserted country road (two lane) and having cars get cranky because they aren't able to drive using both lanes at once, or cranky because they have to execute an overtaking manoeuvre (a notoriously difficult operation that, once accomplished, can lead to advanced studies in Indicator Usage and Checking One's Blindspot) There are, however, cases were capital punishment should be used - cyclists riding in the centre of the lane, downtown at 6pm on a Thursday - cyclists riding 2 or more abreast on a single lane - cyclists whose jersey and helmet colours do match their bike.

                          cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP

                          C 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • C Christopher Duncan

                            Chris Maunder wrote:

                            who feel that their tax dollars give them more right to the road than my tax dollars

                            Not to stick my head in the lion's mouth (or laser guided sharks, if you prefer), but I've never been able to accept this justifation. Like many intellectual exercises, the math may work out okay on paper but it doesn't always mesh well with reality. There are countless nature trails dedicated to hikers and cyclists. If a group of bikers wanted to take their souped up, 1 gazillion horsepower, no muffler trail bikes and tear up and down the nature paths, they could well argue that their tax dollars give them just as much right to the road as anyone else. Nonetheless, I would see that as a gross violation of the purpose for which the trails were built and find the bikers' actions offensive and out of place. Once upon a time, roads were used by horses. Eventually, when automobiles came along, construction and maintenance of roads changed to support motorized transport. Since roads were once the domain of horses and the like, Farmer Jones could drive his 20 mule team down the middle of 2nd Avenue in New York and claim with much righteous indignation that he had just as much right to the road as anyone else. And tax dollar for tax dollar, the man's got a point. But his 20 mule team interferes with the other 99.99999% of people who use the roads for motorized transport. It's not just unrealistic. It's inconsiderate and an example of an attitude which dictates that the needs of the many must bow to the needs of the few. Modern roadways are meant for motorized transport, and from both a productivity and safety point of view it's simply not realistic to insist on bicycles and cars being treated as equals. However, until a better solution presents itself (I'm sure the shark and laser manufacturers are gearing up their lobbyists even as we speak), I thought that an attempt to redesign roadways so that they are more conducive to supporting both types of traffic was a step in the right direction.

                            Chris Maunder wrote:

                            see what happens when a wing mirror hits a bicycle helmet. ... Lanes aren't needed. Sharks with friggin' laser beams A different attitude is.

                            Now you're talking about a completely different topic. If you can find a way to rid the human race of assholes with bad attitudes (without the plan involving putting Nazis in charge), sign me up. If you think that cyclists are the o

                            J Offline
                            J Offline
                            Jim Crafton
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #30

                            Christopher Duncan wrote:

                            Now you're talking about a completely different topic. If you can find a way to rid the human race of assholes with bad attitudes

                            Throw in pretty much any dipshit who drives an SUV in that category. I can't tell you how many times I've been close to being run over by these inconsiderate douche-bags as a pedestrian on green light, with a WALK sign all lit up.

                            ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow

                            C 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • C Chris Maunder

                              Christopher Duncan wrote:

                              Chris Maunder wrote: who feel that their tax dollars give them more right to the road than my tax dollars Not to stick my head in the lion's mouth (or laser guided sharks, if you prefer), but I've never been able to accept this justifation

                              This whole thing certainly does need to be put in context. The specific situations I find are: - riding along on a two-lane-per-direction road, and having cars get cranky because they aren't able to drive using both lanes at once - riding along a deserted country road (two lane) and having cars get cranky because they aren't able to drive using both lanes at once, or cranky because they have to execute an overtaking manoeuvre (a notoriously difficult operation that, once accomplished, can lead to advanced studies in Indicator Usage and Checking One's Blindspot) There are, however, cases were capital punishment should be used - cyclists riding in the centre of the lane, downtown at 6pm on a Thursday - cyclists riding 2 or more abreast on a single lane - cyclists whose jersey and helmet colours do match their bike.

                              cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP

                              C Offline
                              C Offline
                              Christopher Duncan
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #31

                              I would agree with all of that, but respectfully add one more to the list: - cyclists who wear spandex (or anything like it) unless they look like Jessica Alba. That last part's for you, Doug.

                              Christopher Duncan
                              www.PracticalUSA.com
                              Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
                              Copywriting Services

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • D Dan Neely

                                Missles (atgm, rpg, "recoilless rifles") have minimal recoil. You need to make sure you're not in the backblast though. On the plus side you can crisp the idiot tailgating you as part of a 2 for 1 special. :laugh:

                                3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18

                                G Offline
                                G Offline
                                Gary Wheeler
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #32

                                Good to know. Thanks!

                                Software Zen: delete this;

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • J Jim Crafton

                                  Christopher Duncan wrote:

                                  Now you're talking about a completely different topic. If you can find a way to rid the human race of assholes with bad attitudes

                                  Throw in pretty much any dipshit who drives an SUV in that category. I can't tell you how many times I've been close to being run over by these inconsiderate douche-bags as a pedestrian on green light, with a WALK sign all lit up.

                                  ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow

                                  C Offline
                                  C Offline
                                  Christopher Duncan
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #33

                                  You just have to learn to see the humor in all things (assuming you survive the experience, of course). SUVs, almost none of which have seen the business end of either Sport or Utility, became massively popular because auto industry execs discovered that, for a family, the minivan is the single most practical mode of transportation out there. Problem is, sexist world that we live in, it's usually the guys who make the buying decisions. And most guys simply don't have a big enough set of enough self confidence to survive being seen in such a vehicle by their macho buddies. The solution? Create something with the utilitarian appeal of a minivan (actually, a minivan kicks an SUV's top heavy butt in pretty much every functional category), but looks manly. And thus, the SUV was born. And so, the next time one of these bozos buzzes you, just remember. They're driving a minivan with a facelift because they have to do what the wife tells them. [Insert the plural of your favorite machismo insulting descriptive epithet here.] :-D And just for the record, when I was a working musician, I drove a minivan, not an SUV. Biology speaks sufficiently to identify my gender. :)

                                  Christopher Duncan
                                  www.PracticalUSA.com
                                  Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
                                  Copywriting Services

                                  J J 2 Replies Last reply
                                  0
                                  • D Dan Neely

                                    Missles (atgm, rpg, "recoilless rifles") have minimal recoil. You need to make sure you're not in the backblast though. On the plus side you can crisp the idiot tailgating you as part of a 2 for 1 special. :laugh:

                                    3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18

                                    C Offline
                                    C Offline
                                    Christopher Duncan
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #34

                                    5! Heaven knows I do love tactical brilliance. :)

                                    Christopher Duncan
                                    www.PracticalUSA.com
                                    Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
                                    Copywriting Services

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • C Christopher Duncan

                                      You just have to learn to see the humor in all things (assuming you survive the experience, of course). SUVs, almost none of which have seen the business end of either Sport or Utility, became massively popular because auto industry execs discovered that, for a family, the minivan is the single most practical mode of transportation out there. Problem is, sexist world that we live in, it's usually the guys who make the buying decisions. And most guys simply don't have a big enough set of enough self confidence to survive being seen in such a vehicle by their macho buddies. The solution? Create something with the utilitarian appeal of a minivan (actually, a minivan kicks an SUV's top heavy butt in pretty much every functional category), but looks manly. And thus, the SUV was born. And so, the next time one of these bozos buzzes you, just remember. They're driving a minivan with a facelift because they have to do what the wife tells them. [Insert the plural of your favorite machismo insulting descriptive epithet here.] :-D And just for the record, when I was a working musician, I drove a minivan, not an SUV. Biology speaks sufficiently to identify my gender. :)

                                      Christopher Duncan
                                      www.PracticalUSA.com
                                      Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
                                      Copywriting Services

                                      J Offline
                                      J Offline
                                      Jim Crafton
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #35

                                      Except that half the time the drivers are women!!! Talking on their godammn cell phones. What I wouldn't give for a lightsaber...

                                      ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow

                                      C 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • J Jim Crafton

                                        Except that half the time the drivers are women!!! Talking on their godammn cell phones. What I wouldn't give for a lightsaber...

                                        ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow

                                        C Offline
                                        C Offline
                                        Christopher Duncan
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #36

                                        You don't seriously think it's the vehicle that the women wanted, do you? Besides, who needs a light sabre?

                                        Jim Crafton wrote:

                                        Talking on their godammn cell phones.

                                        The Force can have a strong effect on the weak minded. "Honest, officer, I don't know how my car ended up in a tree! It just happened. Really!" :)

                                        Christopher Duncan
                                        www.PracticalUSA.com
                                        Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
                                        Copywriting Services

                                        J 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • C Christopher Duncan

                                          You don't seriously think it's the vehicle that the women wanted, do you? Besides, who needs a light sabre?

                                          Jim Crafton wrote:

                                          Talking on their godammn cell phones.

                                          The Force can have a strong effect on the weak minded. "Honest, officer, I don't know how my car ended up in a tree! It just happened. Really!" :)

                                          Christopher Duncan
                                          www.PracticalUSA.com
                                          Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
                                          Copywriting Services

                                          J Offline
                                          J Offline
                                          Jim Crafton
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #37

                                          Christopher Duncan wrote:

                                          You don't seriously think it's the vehicle that the women wanted, do you?

                                          I don't know (and frankly I don't really care - I just want them off the road), but you hear a lot about the "soccer moms" and their affinity for cars like these because of so called safety "features".

                                          ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow

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