There Is No Right to Health Care..
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I agree with this completely. It's the real deal, those who support socialized, subsidized, highly regulated, bureaucratic nightmare healthcare are totally ignorant of the real consequences of those systems and only view it with the perspective that was taught to them through a lifetime a propaganda and dependency on government handouts and ridiculous laws. Ron Paul March 18, 2010 Statement before the United States House of Representatives, September 23, 2009 Government has been mismanaging medical care for more than 45 years; for every problem it has created it has responded by exponentially expanding the role of government. Points to consider: 1.) No one has a right to medical care. If one assumes such a right, it endorses the notion that some individuals have a right to someone else’s life and property. This totally contradicts the principles of liberty. 2.) If medical care is provided by government, this can only be achieved by an authoritarian government unconcerned about the rights of the individual. 3.) Economic fallacies accepted for more than 100 years in the United States has deceived policy makers into believing that quality medical care can only be achieved by government force, taxation, regulations, and bowing to a system of special interests that creates a system of corporatism. 4.) More dollars into any monopoly run by government never increases quality but it always results in higher costs and prices. 5.) Government does have an important role to play in facilitating the delivery of all goods and services in an ethical and efficient manner. 6.) First, government should do no harm. It should get out of the way and repeal all the laws that have contributed to the mess we have. 7.) The costs are obviously too high but in solving this problem one cannot ignore the debasement of the currency as a major factor. 8.) Bureaucrats and other third parties must never be allowed to interfere in the doctor/patient relationship. Laws dealing with bad outcomes and prohibiting doctors from entering into voluntary agreements with their patients must be repealed. Tort laws play a significant role in pushing costs higher, prompting unnecessary treatment and excessive testing. Patients deserve the compensation; the attorneys do not. 10.) Insurance sales should be legalized nationally across state lines to increase competition among the insurance companies.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
No one has a right to medical care. If one assumes such a right, it endorses the notion that some individuals have a right to someone else’s life and property. This totally contradicts the principles of liberty.
This is a cascading sequence of lies. No-one has a right to the services of the police under this logic. Which does away with the notion of personal property, how can I have property if no-one will stop people taking it ? There is no right to education. Why should there be ? The reason society gives people access to eduction, law, and health, is that it ultimately benefits society for people to be educated, healthy and safe. Such people are left to contribute to the economy, and to society, because they are not worried about their own survival. That a right to health is a right to someone else's property is plain ridiculous. I assume this means because a person is given a right to be treated by a doctor, yet, that doctors chooses to be a doctor and is paid for his services. At the core all of this argument is pathetic, unless Ron Paul is violently opposed to any form of health insurance, and agrees that every American citizen should have to spend $500 every time they get a sniffle, which is what it cost me to go to a low quality doctor in the USA.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
No one has a right to medical care. If one assumes such a right, it endorses the notion that some individuals have a right to someone else’s life and property. This totally contradicts the principles of liberty.
This is a cascading sequence of lies. No-one has a right to the services of the police under this logic. Which does away with the notion of personal property, how can I have property if no-one will stop people taking it ? There is no right to education. Why should there be ? The reason society gives people access to eduction, law, and health, is that it ultimately benefits society for people to be educated, healthy and safe. Such people are left to contribute to the economy, and to society, because they are not worried about their own survival. That a right to health is a right to someone else's property is plain ridiculous. I assume this means because a person is given a right to be treated by a doctor, yet, that doctors chooses to be a doctor and is paid for his services. At the core all of this argument is pathetic, unless Ron Paul is violently opposed to any form of health insurance, and agrees that every American citizen should have to spend $500 every time they get a sniffle, which is what it cost me to go to a low quality doctor in the USA.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
No-one has a right to the services of the police under this logic.
Well, with your logic, so would government itself. Government has a purpose, to facilitate the delivery of goods and services in an ethical and efficient manner. In a free market system, government only serves to provide security and provide an legal framework under the limited enumerated powers granted by the Constitution.
Christian Graus wrote:
There is no right to education.
Public schools are the worst place for your kids to get an education. The quality is inferior and the costs are outrageous. Healhcare is the same.
Christian Graus wrote:
The reason society gives people access to eduction, law, and health, is that it ultimately benefits society for people to be educated, healthy and safe.
It does, the free market does it better. The free market is efficient and is constantly innovating and people vote what is the best product or service with their dollars. Incentives of profit on the business side, and incentives for better goods and services at cheaper price on the consumer end. This provides a highly competitive environment pushing forever increasing innovation and development. Government on the other hand is an extremely expensive and inefficient system that provides constantly deteriorating goods or services.
Christian Graus wrote:
That a right to health is a right to someone else's property is plain ridiculous.
If a person don't have the incentive to pay for his own goods and services then that person will be a drain on the system, taking the property of others for his own benefit. Healthcare in the unites states is extremely expensive because it is the law that emergency rooms take all patients no matter what, even illegals. They go in there for everything from a hurt toe to a tooth ache. Then there are the endless loopholes and government regulations that promote a monopoly on healthcare (which makes it easier to take healthcare over because everything is consolidated.
Christian Graus wrote:
unless Ron Paul is violently opposed to any form of health insurance
He is opposed to government healthcare and endless regulations, not private insurance.
Christian
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Christian Graus wrote:
No-one has a right to the services of the police under this logic.
Well, with your logic, so would government itself. Government has a purpose, to facilitate the delivery of goods and services in an ethical and efficient manner. In a free market system, government only serves to provide security and provide an legal framework under the limited enumerated powers granted by the Constitution.
Christian Graus wrote:
There is no right to education.
Public schools are the worst place for your kids to get an education. The quality is inferior and the costs are outrageous. Healhcare is the same.
Christian Graus wrote:
The reason society gives people access to eduction, law, and health, is that it ultimately benefits society for people to be educated, healthy and safe.
It does, the free market does it better. The free market is efficient and is constantly innovating and people vote what is the best product or service with their dollars. Incentives of profit on the business side, and incentives for better goods and services at cheaper price on the consumer end. This provides a highly competitive environment pushing forever increasing innovation and development. Government on the other hand is an extremely expensive and inefficient system that provides constantly deteriorating goods or services.
Christian Graus wrote:
That a right to health is a right to someone else's property is plain ridiculous.
If a person don't have the incentive to pay for his own goods and services then that person will be a drain on the system, taking the property of others for his own benefit. Healthcare in the unites states is extremely expensive because it is the law that emergency rooms take all patients no matter what, even illegals. They go in there for everything from a hurt toe to a tooth ache. Then there are the endless loopholes and government regulations that promote a monopoly on healthcare (which makes it easier to take healthcare over because everything is consolidated.
Christian Graus wrote:
unless Ron Paul is violently opposed to any form of health insurance
He is opposed to government healthcare and endless regulations, not private insurance.
Christian
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Well, with your logic, so would government itself.
Yes, that is right. I am extending your logic to it's obvious conclusion. Government exists to provide security, I agree. The definition of security is where we differ.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Public schools are the worst place for your kids to get an education. The quality is inferior and the costs are outrageous. Healhcare is the same.
Perhaps, but that's due to lack of funding. What costs ? You have to pay to send your kids to a public school ? How is it public then ? Healthcare is totally different for reasons I've explained ad nauseum. The government is not going to run health care, they are going to run insurance.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
It does, the free market does it better. The free market is efficient and is constantly innovating and people vote what is the best product or service with their dollars.
Yes, the free market does it better for the few who win under a totally free market system. See my post above about minimum wage, because that's really what all of this is about. The free market system expoits the many for the benefit of the few. Some people are lucky. Many are not.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Government on the other hand is an extremely expensive and inefficient system that provides constantly deteriorating goods or services.
The reason government costs more is that it does not, in theory discriminate. Letting people starve to death or die of curable diseases is obviously not expensive. Although, again, the government wants to run insurance, not health care.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
If a person don't have the incentive to pay for his own goods and services then that person will be a drain on the system, taking the property of others for his own benefit.
This is another truism that does not hold. Doctors will refuse to stop seeing people who are plainly not ill, and a government run insurance system will do the same, just like the current insurance does. Hell, people who want to say how terrible this will be seem to say on the one hand that people will drain the system needlessly, and on the other talk about death panels and lack of access to care. These are opposite theories, so which is it ?
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I agree with this completely. It's the real deal, those who support socialized, subsidized, highly regulated, bureaucratic nightmare healthcare are totally ignorant of the real consequences of those systems and only view it with the perspective that was taught to them through a lifetime a propaganda and dependency on government handouts and ridiculous laws. Ron Paul March 18, 2010 Statement before the United States House of Representatives, September 23, 2009 Government has been mismanaging medical care for more than 45 years; for every problem it has created it has responded by exponentially expanding the role of government. Points to consider: 1.) No one has a right to medical care. If one assumes such a right, it endorses the notion that some individuals have a right to someone else’s life and property. This totally contradicts the principles of liberty. 2.) If medical care is provided by government, this can only be achieved by an authoritarian government unconcerned about the rights of the individual. 3.) Economic fallacies accepted for more than 100 years in the United States has deceived policy makers into believing that quality medical care can only be achieved by government force, taxation, regulations, and bowing to a system of special interests that creates a system of corporatism. 4.) More dollars into any monopoly run by government never increases quality but it always results in higher costs and prices. 5.) Government does have an important role to play in facilitating the delivery of all goods and services in an ethical and efficient manner. 6.) First, government should do no harm. It should get out of the way and repeal all the laws that have contributed to the mess we have. 7.) The costs are obviously too high but in solving this problem one cannot ignore the debasement of the currency as a major factor. 8.) Bureaucrats and other third parties must never be allowed to interfere in the doctor/patient relationship. Laws dealing with bad outcomes and prohibiting doctors from entering into voluntary agreements with their patients must be repealed. Tort laws play a significant role in pushing costs higher, prompting unnecessary treatment and excessive testing. Patients deserve the compensation; the attorneys do not. 10.) Insurance sales should be legalized nationally across state lines to increase competition among the insurance companies.
Life, Liberty, Pursuit of happiness. You see that first one? If you can't afford to get health care, you will drop dead from something sooner or later. Oh, but there are insurance companies, right? Yea, they have a tendency to investigate their customers for fraud or some possible issue the moment a customer is diagnosed with a life threatening illness of a certain cost. They deny treatment to some people and generally try and make that insurance policy simply a tax to the company and not an actual policy. Unfettered capitalism is about exploiting the masses if you are a corporation. Why compete when you can collude? Just ask Visa and their credit/debit card scheme.
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I agree with this completely. It's the real deal, those who support socialized, subsidized, highly regulated, bureaucratic nightmare healthcare are totally ignorant of the real consequences of those systems and only view it with the perspective that was taught to them through a lifetime a propaganda and dependency on government handouts and ridiculous laws. Ron Paul March 18, 2010 Statement before the United States House of Representatives, September 23, 2009 Government has been mismanaging medical care for more than 45 years; for every problem it has created it has responded by exponentially expanding the role of government. Points to consider: 1.) No one has a right to medical care. If one assumes such a right, it endorses the notion that some individuals have a right to someone else’s life and property. This totally contradicts the principles of liberty. 2.) If medical care is provided by government, this can only be achieved by an authoritarian government unconcerned about the rights of the individual. 3.) Economic fallacies accepted for more than 100 years in the United States has deceived policy makers into believing that quality medical care can only be achieved by government force, taxation, regulations, and bowing to a system of special interests that creates a system of corporatism. 4.) More dollars into any monopoly run by government never increases quality but it always results in higher costs and prices. 5.) Government does have an important role to play in facilitating the delivery of all goods and services in an ethical and efficient manner. 6.) First, government should do no harm. It should get out of the way and repeal all the laws that have contributed to the mess we have. 7.) The costs are obviously too high but in solving this problem one cannot ignore the debasement of the currency as a major factor. 8.) Bureaucrats and other third parties must never be allowed to interfere in the doctor/patient relationship. Laws dealing with bad outcomes and prohibiting doctors from entering into voluntary agreements with their patients must be repealed. Tort laws play a significant role in pushing costs higher, prompting unnecessary treatment and excessive testing. Patients deserve the compensation; the attorneys do not. 10.) Insurance sales should be legalized nationally across state lines to increase competition among the insurance companies.
Dude. you're killing it. you're killing the movement. you're more than a pest. you've been doing this for a week. I mean, it's great that you agree with it, and Ron Paul definitely is the man. But wow dude. If Christian didn't like you just copying and pasting (include links!) something the first five times, why continue to do it? I understand you're bitter about having something taken down, but it won't stop him from doing it again! Speaking of Christian, I still have to respond to him. What an ass I am.
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Dude. you're killing it. you're killing the movement. you're more than a pest. you've been doing this for a week. I mean, it's great that you agree with it, and Ron Paul definitely is the man. But wow dude. If Christian didn't like you just copying and pasting (include links!) something the first five times, why continue to do it? I understand you're bitter about having something taken down, but it won't stop him from doing it again! Speaking of Christian, I still have to respond to him. What an ass I am.
You are a fucking moron. I posted this once, and CG deleted it, so I posted it again, and I will do it again and again if he deletes it. I will do the same for other posts. There is nothing that will stop me from doing that. If you want to play games with CG then go ahead, it is a waste of time. I'm killing the movement. Phhh.....,........ :rolleyes: :doh: Take a look in the mirror, you are a girlyboy not a man.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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You are a fucking moron. I posted this once, and CG deleted it, so I posted it again, and I will do it again and again if he deletes it. I will do the same for other posts. There is nothing that will stop me from doing that. If you want to play games with CG then go ahead, it is a waste of time. I'm killing the movement. Phhh.....,........ :rolleyes: :doh: Take a look in the mirror, you are a girlyboy not a man.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I'm killing the movement. Phhh.....,........ Roll eyes D'Oh! Take a look in the mirror, you are a girlyboy not a man.
Whether you believe I'm a girly boy or not doesn't mean I'm killing the movement. Nice logic there.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I posted this once, and CG deleted it, so I posted it again, and I will do it again and again if he deletes it. I will do the same for other posts. There is nothing that will stop me from doing that. If you want to play games with CG then go ahead, it is a waste of time.
What I'd call a waste of time is the fact that you keep reposting, because you know what he'll do. You really have no idea what logic is, do you? I suggest you think things out before you say them. My father used to say, "The brain is a terrible thing to waste." I think he was right.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I'm killing the movement. Phhh.....,........ Roll eyes D'Oh! Take a look in the mirror, you are a girlyboy not a man.
Whether you believe I'm a girly boy or not doesn't mean I'm killing the movement. Nice logic there.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I posted this once, and CG deleted it, so I posted it again, and I will do it again and again if he deletes it. I will do the same for other posts. There is nothing that will stop me from doing that. If you want to play games with CG then go ahead, it is a waste of time.
What I'd call a waste of time is the fact that you keep reposting, because you know what he'll do. You really have no idea what logic is, do you? I suggest you think things out before you say them. My father used to say, "The brain is a terrible thing to waste." I think he was right.
josda1000 wrote:
What I'd call a waste of time is the fact that you keep reposting, because you know what he'll do.
This is your girly man attitude, CG is your master, I am his master, therefor you are my little whipping boy.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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You are a fucking moron. I posted this once, and CG deleted it, so I posted it again, and I will do it again and again if he deletes it. I will do the same for other posts. There is nothing that will stop me from doing that. If you want to play games with CG then go ahead, it is a waste of time. I'm killing the movement. Phhh.....,........ :rolleyes: :doh: Take a look in the mirror, you are a girlyboy not a man.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
Reality check... Notice how when you actually reply to the rebuttals, instead of just copy-pasting and then ignoring the thread, CG actually leaves it up? He's not trying to censor your opinion. Quite the opposite... He's trying to encourage you to STATE your opinion, as opposed to just copying other peoples' opinions.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
josda1000 wrote:
What I'd call a waste of time is the fact that you keep reposting, because you know what he'll do.
This is your girly man attitude, CG is your master, I am his master, therefor you are my little whipping boy.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
This is your girly man attitude
To me, this sounds like a neo-con point of view. You have to be so manly to be considered respectable. You sure you're liberty-minded? Anyway, Yes, continue away with your little fantasy dude. Last time I pay you any respect. Calling me a girl is hardly respectable. I'm sure you like the idea of whipping a guy though, I can definitely see that.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
This is your girly man attitude
To me, this sounds like a neo-con point of view. You have to be so manly to be considered respectable. You sure you're liberty-minded? Anyway, Yes, continue away with your little fantasy dude. Last time I pay you any respect. Calling me a girl is hardly respectable. I'm sure you like the idea of whipping a guy though, I can definitely see that.
Go watch a Ninnie'nen'ninya music video of the girl faded into the misty blue background where she says "I'm so so sorry" over and over real soft, and then starts crying at the end of the video, and then she fades deep into the background.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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Go watch a Ninnie'nen'ninya music video of the girl faded into the misty blue background where she says "I'm so so sorry" over and over real soft, and then starts crying at the end of the video, and then she fades deep into the background.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
You know what I'm sorry about? I'm sorry you have to make sad comments like these in order to get any fucking attention here. The funny thing is, we're supposed to be on the same side. If you're worried about liberty in the States, then you should be trying to unite people, and debate people in order to try to persuade them into supporting the cause we have in common. But something's jaded you, and you have to turn on everyone here, even comrades. You really are just a lost soul, "faded deep into the background".
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You know what I'm sorry about? I'm sorry you have to make sad comments like these in order to get any fucking attention here. The funny thing is, we're supposed to be on the same side. If you're worried about liberty in the States, then you should be trying to unite people, and debate people in order to try to persuade them into supporting the cause we have in common. But something's jaded you, and you have to turn on everyone here, even comrades. You really are just a lost soul, "faded deep into the background".
I don't unite with fairies and marxists.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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Reality check... Notice how when you actually reply to the rebuttals, instead of just copy-pasting and then ignoring the thread, CG actually leaves it up? He's not trying to censor your opinion. Quite the opposite... He's trying to encourage you to STATE your opinion, as opposed to just copying other peoples' opinions.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/3411971/Re-There-Is-No-Right-to-Health-Care.aspx[^] Just for the record. You may want this one.
Nah, too short to be amusing... But I snatched the one before it :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Nah, too short to be amusing... But I snatched the one before it :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
I miss those dumbass lines lol It's amazing how he tries to mock Christian or someone, but he really just makes an ass of himself. I should bookmark your profile lol How goes it?
He doesn't seem to understand the general principle of flame wars... The first person to lose his temper will inevitably lose :) Anyway... Life continues... Eat, sleep, work, play, write... Second novel coming out in the next few weeks, and already outlining the third and fourth.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
He doesn't seem to understand the general principle of flame wars... The first person to lose his temper will inevitably lose :) Anyway... Life continues... Eat, sleep, work, play, write... Second novel coming out in the next few weeks, and already outlining the third and fourth.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Nice dude. Sounds like work is cut out for you. I saw the Dropkick Murphys last week, my God are they amazing. And I'm still doing my show, and I went on a date finally two days ago. Looks like we're seeing each other, but she lives on Long Island. It's kind of a ways away from Lowell MA. Actually, you're closer to me than she is, aren't you? lol Figures.
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Nice dude. Sounds like work is cut out for you. I saw the Dropkick Murphys last week, my God are they amazing. And I'm still doing my show, and I went on a date finally two days ago. Looks like we're seeing each other, but she lives on Long Island. It's kind of a ways away from Lowell MA. Actually, you're closer to me than she is, aren't you? lol Figures.
Heh, I know a few people out on LI... Went to college out there... Would be funny if I knew her. I stick to the city, though. I ditched my car when I moved here, so I'm pretty much reliant on mass transit. Don't want to start a relationship with someone if I can't easily visit them. I just don't like the sound of "Hey, want to meet up this weekend? Great, when can you pick me up from the bus stop?" You figure in a city this large, I'd have found someone by now... But no, been single for a couple years now.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Heh, I know a few people out on LI... Went to college out there... Would be funny if I knew her. I stick to the city, though. I ditched my car when I moved here, so I'm pretty much reliant on mass transit. Don't want to start a relationship with someone if I can't easily visit them. I just don't like the sound of "Hey, want to meet up this weekend? Great, when can you pick me up from the bus stop?" You figure in a city this large, I'd have found someone by now... But no, been single for a couple years now.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)You may know her, but she is actually two years younger than I am, and I'm 25. Just sayin. lol But yeah, actually I'm gonna take a drive out to her, going to the sunrise highway. The funny thing is, the more people get together in cities, the more spiritually apart they are from each other. Boston, Lowell, they're like that. But if you get to places like Andover, Middleton, Littleton, they're not. I don't know if you agree or not, just an observation.