D'oh! I knew I should have tested that!
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News Linky[^] There's never such a thing as an easy change! :doh: First time back into work today for a week and a half, had a nice time off at home with the missus - although she was ill for 5 days of it!! Never mind, back to the grindstone! :)
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" ~ Albert Einstein "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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News Linky[^] There's never such a thing as an easy change! :doh: First time back into work today for a week and a half, had a nice time off at home with the missus - although she was ill for 5 days of it!! Never mind, back to the grindstone! :)
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" ~ Albert Einstein "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
Ugh. And I thought it was bad when an ambulance turned around within a hundred yards, and two others a quarter mile, of a dieing man because snow rendered the road impassible. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35631879/[^]
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Ugh. And I thought it was bad when an ambulance turned around within a hundred yards, and two others a quarter mile, of a dieing man because snow rendered the road impassible. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35631879/[^]
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While not wishing to start an argument, you do realise this article leaves a lot to be desired? For a start, if the paramedics had tried to walk to the patient (as the article seems to suggest they should have), they probably couldn't have done a lot as they probably wouldn't have been able to get said patient back to their vehicle. After all the road was:
Dan Neely wrote:
impassible
Obviously I don't know if your opinion matches that of the article, which seems to make judgements on situations I doubt the author has any experience in, really makes my blood boil.
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While not wishing to start an argument, you do realise this article leaves a lot to be desired? For a start, if the paramedics had tried to walk to the patient (as the article seems to suggest they should have), they probably couldn't have done a lot as they probably wouldn't have been able to get said patient back to their vehicle. After all the road was:
Dan Neely wrote:
impassible
Obviously I don't know if your opinion matches that of the article, which seems to make judgements on situations I doubt the author has any experience in, really makes my blood boil.
Walking through 2 feet of snow is difficult, but certainly possible, the crew that got within a football field doesn't have an excuse IMO. Driving through it without a plow or a 2 foot lift kit and equally oversized tires is something else. Part of the problem is that aside from a single truck assigned to a few of the hilliest neighborhoods (and assuming it hasn't been a budget cut casualty) Pittsburgh doesn't plow any secondary streets until the main ones are clear. In a major storm this generally doesn't happen until after the snow stops falling. They need to either equip a few ambulances with plows and chains so they can get into unplowed areas or to make a plow truck available to emergency services when they're unable to reach an area on their own.
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Walking through 2 feet of snow is difficult, but certainly possible, the crew that got within a football field doesn't have an excuse IMO. Driving through it without a plow or a 2 foot lift kit and equally oversized tires is something else. Part of the problem is that aside from a single truck assigned to a few of the hilliest neighborhoods (and assuming it hasn't been a budget cut casualty) Pittsburgh doesn't plow any secondary streets until the main ones are clear. In a major storm this generally doesn't happen until after the snow stops falling. They need to either equip a few ambulances with plows and chains so they can get into unplowed areas or to make a plow truck available to emergency services when they're unable to reach an area on their own.
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Dan Neely wrote:
Walking through 2 feet of snow is difficult, but certainly possible, the crew that got within a football field doesn't have an excuse IMO.
While I don't disagree out right, I would question how they would get the patient back to their vehicle. Them getting in to the house is only half the battle. You wouldn't be able to get a trolley cot (read: bed on wheels) through that 2 feet of snow, a carry chair would have been worse, and it seems the patient wouldn't have been able to walk it himself. Any other technique (such as bodily lifting up the patient) endangers both patient and paramedic, and so aren't acceptable.
Dan Neely wrote:
Part of the problem is that aside from a single truck assigned to a few of the hilliest neighborhoods (and assuming it hasn't been a budget cut casualty) Pittsburgh doesn't plow any secondary streets until the main ones are clear. In a major storm this generally doesn't happen until after the snow stops falling. They need to either equip a few ambulances with plows and chains so they can get into unplowed areas or to make a plow truck available to emergency services when they're unable to reach an area on their own.
This would be the crux of the problem. As far as I can tell (having not been there) the city was woefully unprepared for this situation and the paramedics are getting the blame. Not that it's much better over here in England. Where I live, the local ambulance service has no 4x4 vehicles. During the snow we had here, the only vehicles that could get around safely on the untreated roads (Edit: and carry patients) belonged to St John Ambulance (the charity of volunteer First Aiders that I belong to). It boggles my mind that a charity can better afford this level of resources than the local statutory service...
modified on Monday, March 22, 2010 12:25 PM
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Dan Neely wrote:
Walking through 2 feet of snow is difficult, but certainly possible, the crew that got within a football field doesn't have an excuse IMO.
While I don't disagree out right, I would question how they would get the patient back to their vehicle. Them getting in to the house is only half the battle. You wouldn't be able to get a trolley cot (read: bed on wheels) through that 2 feet of snow, a carry chair would have been worse, and it seems the patient wouldn't have been able to walk it himself. Any other technique (such as bodily lifting up the patient) endangers both patient and paramedic, and so aren't acceptable.
Dan Neely wrote:
Part of the problem is that aside from a single truck assigned to a few of the hilliest neighborhoods (and assuming it hasn't been a budget cut casualty) Pittsburgh doesn't plow any secondary streets until the main ones are clear. In a major storm this generally doesn't happen until after the snow stops falling. They need to either equip a few ambulances with plows and chains so they can get into unplowed areas or to make a plow truck available to emergency services when they're unable to reach an area on their own.
This would be the crux of the problem. As far as I can tell (having not been there) the city was woefully unprepared for this situation and the paramedics are getting the blame. Not that it's much better over here in England. Where I live, the local ambulance service has no 4x4 vehicles. During the snow we had here, the only vehicles that could get around safely on the untreated roads (Edit: and carry patients) belonged to St John Ambulance (the charity of volunteer First Aiders that I belong to). It boggles my mind that a charity can better afford this level of resources than the local statutory service...
modified on Monday, March 22, 2010 12:25 PM
Tony Richards wrote:
While I don't disagree out right, I would question how they would get the patient back to their vehicle. Them getting in to the house is only half the battle. You wouldn't be able to get a trolley cot (read: bed on wheels) through that 2 feet of snow,
The wheel legs can fold up so they can be carried like a stretcher on rough terrain. IIRC I've seen models that were strictly hand carry as well, but don't know if they're standard equipment.
Tony Richards wrote:
This would be the crux of the problem. As far as I can tell (having not been there) the city was woefully unprepared for this situation and the paramedics are getting the blame.
Same basic problem as what you appear to have. Justifying spending enough money to be able to handle an exceptional storm, the one in Pittsburgh was the heaviest in decades, is impossible to justify to tax payers balking at tax hikes (and Pittsburgh's finances are not far removed from needing to declare bankruptcy). Smaller charities, or private organizations, not being subject to the same level of scrutiny have more latitude to spend extra to cover extreme situations. EDIT: also if the paramedics had walked to the door (which they're now required to do as a result of a policy change) they'd've been able to evaluate the situation more accurately than the person who called 911; if the situation was critical it would have been possible to shovel that much sidewalk in a reasonable amount of time if it was the only way to get the patient out.
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Walking through 2 feet of snow is difficult, but certainly possible, the crew that got within a football field doesn't have an excuse IMO. Driving through it without a plow or a 2 foot lift kit and equally oversized tires is something else. Part of the problem is that aside from a single truck assigned to a few of the hilliest neighborhoods (and assuming it hasn't been a budget cut casualty) Pittsburgh doesn't plow any secondary streets until the main ones are clear. In a major storm this generally doesn't happen until after the snow stops falling. They need to either equip a few ambulances with plows and chains so they can get into unplowed areas or to make a plow truck available to emergency services when they're unable to reach an area on their own.
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I know it was along time ago, but in 1962, when men were men and snow was several feet deep, my Mum went into labour with my youngest sister while ill with pneumonia. The ambulance came as far as it could, and the combined forces of family and neighbours dug a path free for half a mile so the men could carry my Mum out tied on a stretcher held over their heads.
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I know it was along time ago, but in 1962, when men were men and snow was several feet deep, my Mum went into labour with my youngest sister while ill with pneumonia. The ambulance came as far as it could, and the combined forces of family and neighbours dug a path free for half a mile so the men could carry my Mum out tied on a stretcher held over their heads.
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