Wonders of the Solar System
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I was watching the fantastic Wonders of the Solar System[^] last night (which I recommend you all watch) but it raised a question that I'm not sure how to answer. Jupiter's smallest moon Io is heated as a result of being compressed by the gravitational field generated by Jupiter (along with a resonant effect produced by Ganymede and Europa) as it moves around its orbit. The question is, heat is being produced by the internal friction caused by the compression and expansion of the core of the moon but where is the actual work done to create this compression? Obviously gravity plays a role but since gravity doesn't dissipate as it acts, where else in the system is energy expended?? :confused:
Sarchasm : The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
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I was watching the fantastic Wonders of the Solar System[^] last night (which I recommend you all watch) but it raised a question that I'm not sure how to answer. Jupiter's smallest moon Io is heated as a result of being compressed by the gravitational field generated by Jupiter (along with a resonant effect produced by Ganymede and Europa) as it moves around its orbit. The question is, heat is being produced by the internal friction caused by the compression and expansion of the core of the moon but where is the actual work done to create this compression? Obviously gravity plays a role but since gravity doesn't dissipate as it acts, where else in the system is energy expended?? :confused:
Sarchasm : The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
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I was watching the fantastic Wonders of the Solar System[^] last night (which I recommend you all watch) but it raised a question that I'm not sure how to answer. Jupiter's smallest moon Io is heated as a result of being compressed by the gravitational field generated by Jupiter (along with a resonant effect produced by Ganymede and Europa) as it moves around its orbit. The question is, heat is being produced by the internal friction caused by the compression and expansion of the core of the moon but where is the actual work done to create this compression? Obviously gravity plays a role but since gravity doesn't dissipate as it acts, where else in the system is energy expended?? :confused:
Sarchasm : The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
Easy one to answer. Jupiter's gravity is so massive that the differential between one side of Io and the other is significant. This would not be a problem in a two-object system, (ie like Earth-Moon), because the differential would be constant, thus equilibrium would be achieved (assuming tidal forces have acted to keep one face constantly facing the larger body), but in a multi-object system such as that of Jupiter this is not the case. The slight, but perceptable gravitation of the smaller superiour moons would have the effect of pulling the nearer side of io toward them and lessening the stress forces on the Jupiter facing side, thus causing the moon to oscillate. This oscillation would allow frictional heating of the core and thus raising the temperature enough to generate volcanic activity. Also be aware that the space around Jupiter is massively irradiated, thus also providing an energy source. The best way to imaging this is to take a Squash Ball. After a few games of squash, the ball is Hot. Why? Because of the energy put into it via the racket, which causes frictional heating of the rubber, AND compression heating of the air inside. Io is that Squash Ball.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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I was watching the fantastic Wonders of the Solar System[^] last night (which I recommend you all watch) but it raised a question that I'm not sure how to answer. Jupiter's smallest moon Io is heated as a result of being compressed by the gravitational field generated by Jupiter (along with a resonant effect produced by Ganymede and Europa) as it moves around its orbit. The question is, heat is being produced by the internal friction caused by the compression and expansion of the core of the moon but where is the actual work done to create this compression? Obviously gravity plays a role but since gravity doesn't dissipate as it acts, where else in the system is energy expended?? :confused:
Sarchasm : The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
Indeed: a jolly good series. Haven't watched last nights yet but looking forward to it. Cox is a man who plainly loves what he does; it shows in his enthusiasm and easy style of presentation. Highly recommended.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
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Indeed: a jolly good series. Haven't watched last nights yet but looking forward to it. Cox is a man who plainly loves what he does; it shows in his enthusiasm and easy style of presentation. Highly recommended.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
However, he makes me feel old, this whiskerless youth going on about a subject I have loved since early childhood, and him a professor! :)
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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I was watching the fantastic Wonders of the Solar System[^] last night (which I recommend you all watch) but it raised a question that I'm not sure how to answer. Jupiter's smallest moon Io is heated as a result of being compressed by the gravitational field generated by Jupiter (along with a resonant effect produced by Ganymede and Europa) as it moves around its orbit. The question is, heat is being produced by the internal friction caused by the compression and expansion of the core of the moon but where is the actual work done to create this compression? Obviously gravity plays a role but since gravity doesn't dissipate as it acts, where else in the system is energy expended?? :confused:
Sarchasm : The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
I was pleased that he said the astrology was utter nonsense. His views on the safety of the LHC are legendary.[^]
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Easy one to answer. Jupiter's gravity is so massive that the differential between one side of Io and the other is significant. This would not be a problem in a two-object system, (ie like Earth-Moon), because the differential would be constant, thus equilibrium would be achieved (assuming tidal forces have acted to keep one face constantly facing the larger body), but in a multi-object system such as that of Jupiter this is not the case. The slight, but perceptable gravitation of the smaller superiour moons would have the effect of pulling the nearer side of io toward them and lessening the stress forces on the Jupiter facing side, thus causing the moon to oscillate. This oscillation would allow frictional heating of the core and thus raising the temperature enough to generate volcanic activity. Also be aware that the space around Jupiter is massively irradiated, thus also providing an energy source. The best way to imaging this is to take a Squash Ball. After a few games of squash, the ball is Hot. Why? Because of the energy put into it via the racket, which causes frictional heating of the rubber, AND compression heating of the air inside. Io is that Squash Ball.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Thanks Dave, I understand why Io heats up - I'm thinking more in terms of laws of thermodynamics in that energy can't be created in a closed system (which for simplicity's sake, I'm assuming this is). In the squash ball example, chemical energy is consumed by the muscles in your hand to deform the ball so there is a direct transfer of energy - work is done to create the heat. I just don't see where energy is expended between Io and Jupiter so it appears there is a net gain in energy which fundamentally isn't allowed?
Sarchasm : The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
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I was pleased that he said the astrology was utter nonsense. His views on the safety of the LHC are legendary.[^]
Journalists are paid to sell newspapers, and the headline "Large Machine built in foreign country will have no impact whatsoever" will not sell. "CERTAIN DEATH!" will.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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I was watching the fantastic Wonders of the Solar System[^] last night (which I recommend you all watch) but it raised a question that I'm not sure how to answer. Jupiter's smallest moon Io is heated as a result of being compressed by the gravitational field generated by Jupiter (along with a resonant effect produced by Ganymede and Europa) as it moves around its orbit. The question is, heat is being produced by the internal friction caused by the compression and expansion of the core of the moon but where is the actual work done to create this compression? Obviously gravity plays a role but since gravity doesn't dissipate as it acts, where else in the system is energy expended?? :confused:
Sarchasm : The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
I've been enjoying the series a lot too, however I'm relagated to watching it on iPlayer on mondays due to the other half wanting to watch a bunch of second rate "celebs" prance around on ice. Shows like (WOTSS) that are proper enjoyable, thought provoking TV, wish there was more like it.
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.
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I was pleased that he said the astrology was utter nonsense. His views on the safety of the LHC are legendary.[^]
viaducting wrote:
I was pleased that he said the astrology was utter nonsense
:D I saw an episode of QI last night I'd somehow not seen before, on Dave. When Stephen Fry said (I forget the exact wording) with a completely serious face that, "if any of you believe in astrology you are hereby banned from QI, go on, just change the channel now", I loved it!
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.
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I've been enjoying the series a lot too, however I'm relagated to watching it on iPlayer on mondays due to the other half wanting to watch a bunch of second rate "celebs" prance around on ice. Shows like (WOTSS) that are proper enjoyable, thought provoking TV, wish there was more like it.
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.
phannon86 wrote:
I've been enjoying the series a lot too, however I'm relagated to watching it on iPlayer on mondays due to the other half wanting to watch a bunch of second rate "celebs" prance around on ice. Shows like that are proper enjoyable, thought provoking TV, wish there was more like it.
The ice dancing? :confused:
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Easy one to answer. Jupiter's gravity is so massive that the differential between one side of Io and the other is significant. This would not be a problem in a two-object system, (ie like Earth-Moon), because the differential would be constant, thus equilibrium would be achieved (assuming tidal forces have acted to keep one face constantly facing the larger body), but in a multi-object system such as that of Jupiter this is not the case. The slight, but perceptable gravitation of the smaller superiour moons would have the effect of pulling the nearer side of io toward them and lessening the stress forces on the Jupiter facing side, thus causing the moon to oscillate. This oscillation would allow frictional heating of the core and thus raising the temperature enough to generate volcanic activity. Also be aware that the space around Jupiter is massively irradiated, thus also providing an energy source. The best way to imaging this is to take a Squash Ball. After a few games of squash, the ball is Hot. Why? Because of the energy put into it via the racket, which causes frictional heating of the rubber, AND compression heating of the air inside. Io is that Squash Ball.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Nothing like a physics lecture in the morning to wake you up better than coffee!! :-D
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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Thanks Dave, I understand why Io heats up - I'm thinking more in terms of laws of thermodynamics in that energy can't be created in a closed system (which for simplicity's sake, I'm assuming this is). In the squash ball example, chemical energy is consumed by the muscles in your hand to deform the ball so there is a direct transfer of energy - work is done to create the heat. I just don't see where energy is expended between Io and Jupiter so it appears there is a net gain in energy which fundamentally isn't allowed?
Sarchasm : The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
It'll come from things like the lowering of angular momentum as Jupiter's rotation slows.
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phannon86 wrote:
I've been enjoying the series a lot too, however I'm relagated to watching it on iPlayer on mondays due to the other half wanting to watch a bunch of second rate "celebs" prance around on ice. Shows like that are proper enjoyable, thought provoking TV, wish there was more like it.
The ice dancing? :confused:
I would rather poke my eyes out with a stick! Personally I was watching 24 and recording WOTSS. (I love Sky+).
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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Thanks Dave, I understand why Io heats up - I'm thinking more in terms of laws of thermodynamics in that energy can't be created in a closed system (which for simplicity's sake, I'm assuming this is). In the squash ball example, chemical energy is consumed by the muscles in your hand to deform the ball so there is a direct transfer of energy - work is done to create the heat. I just don't see where energy is expended between Io and Jupiter so it appears there is a net gain in energy which fundamentally isn't allowed?
Sarchasm : The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
Tidal Energy.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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phannon86 wrote:
I've been enjoying the series a lot too, however I'm relagated to watching it on iPlayer on mondays due to the other half wanting to watch a bunch of second rate "celebs" prance around on ice. Shows like that are proper enjoyable, thought provoking TV, wish there was more like it.
The ice dancing? :confused:
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However, he makes me feel old, this whiskerless youth going on about a subject I have loved since early childhood, and him a professor! :)
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Yes, that is a little distressing! :laugh:
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
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However, he makes me feel old, this whiskerless youth going on about a subject I have loved since early childhood, and him a professor! :)
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
And he had a career as a pop-star before that!
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And he had a career as a pop-star before that!
And played Hannibal Lector.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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Thanks Dave, I understand why Io heats up - I'm thinking more in terms of laws of thermodynamics in that energy can't be created in a closed system (which for simplicity's sake, I'm assuming this is). In the squash ball example, chemical energy is consumed by the muscles in your hand to deform the ball so there is a direct transfer of energy - work is done to create the heat. I just don't see where energy is expended between Io and Jupiter so it appears there is a net gain in energy which fundamentally isn't allowed?
Sarchasm : The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.