And while I'm having a rant... Ta!
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Why in the name of all that his holy do parents teach their small children to say "Ta"? FFS The number of times I have heard mothers say to their kids, when they've received a present or something, "say 'Ta'". I mean, doesn't the kid have to suffer through life enough being called "Chames" or "Deen", "Daizee" or whatever, but learning to say "ta" rather than "Thanks You" or event "Thanks" is just shoving them to the back of the queue, ready to be a checkout chick or work in maccas. Ahhhhrgh
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Why in the name of all that his holy do parents teach their small children to say "Ta"? FFS The number of times I have heard mothers say to their kids, when they've received a present or something, "say 'Ta'". I mean, doesn't the kid have to suffer through life enough being called "Chames" or "Deen", "Daizee" or whatever, but learning to say "ta" rather than "Thanks You" or event "Thanks" is just shoving them to the back of the queue, ready to be a checkout chick or work in maccas. Ahhhhrgh
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
Add to that Dad's who call their sons mate. He is not your mate, he's your son and there is a big difference when you have to order him into the garden with your new shovel.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
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Why in the name of all that his holy do parents teach their small children to say "Ta"? FFS The number of times I have heard mothers say to their kids, when they've received a present or something, "say 'Ta'". I mean, doesn't the kid have to suffer through life enough being called "Chames" or "Deen", "Daizee" or whatever, but learning to say "ta" rather than "Thanks You" or event "Thanks" is just shoving them to the back of the queue, ready to be a checkout chick or work in maccas. Ahhhhrgh
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Ta for that post. ;P Visited an Amish family this weekend. The little kid says Danke (sp). I think it is laziness of the parent, not inability of the child. :wtf:
Gary
"Danke" is German for "Thanks". Most Amish have German or Swiss roots, and many of the more traditional Amish still speak Pennsylvania Dutch* around the home. *It's not really Dutch - it is a dialect of German but the German word for German is "Deutsch".
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"Danke" is German for "Thanks". Most Amish have German or Swiss roots, and many of the more traditional Amish still speak Pennsylvania Dutch* around the home. *It's not really Dutch - it is a dialect of German but the German word for German is "Deutsch".
Yes, this is a Pennsylvania Dutch speaking family. Being immersed in their culture, I am amazed at what great common sense they have. Seems to have disappeared in our modern "society". They don't teach the little guy "Da" because he can't say Danke. They teach him Danke. His older brothers, 8 & 11, are trying to teach my wife and I a little German. I can't pronounce their words, but they don't slack on me just because it's difficult. Nor should they. Side note: the 11 y.o. watched viewed pictures being displayed on an iPhone. He can now tell you how to operate the thing! :thumbsup:
Gary
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Ta for that post. ;P Visited an Amish family this weekend. The little kid says Danke (sp). I think it is laziness of the parent, not inability of the child. :wtf:
Gary
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_Maxxx_ wrote:
Why in the name of all that his holy do parents teach their small children to say "Ta"?
Little children who are learning to speak, the baby talk phase, find smaller words easier to understand and easier to say. As the child becomes more competent in his/her language skills you can (and must) introduce more complexity such as "Thank you" and "Please". So until they are ready, "Ta" and "Pees" is perfectly fine.
I absolutely could not agree less. Mispronunciation is fine (if it is gently corrected on occasion) but to actually teach 'baby' words slows down the whole learning process. You should not talk baby language to your children - sure you should simplify your speech so that they an comprehend it, but they will learn just fine if you talk to them normally. Teach your child to say "Thank You". She may only manage to say 'anka' - but that's fine - but YOU should NOT say "anka"
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Because you are teaching the child to respond when given something. What they say doesn't really matter, when the kid is old enough and able to pronounce 'thank you' then you move on to that.
Noooooooo! another one! teach them to say "Thank You" - they may well not be able to manage saying the words properly, but they need to be taught properly - otherwise you will get a struggle telling them not to say "ta" later on (unless you are a bogan and want your kids to say ta. I'm sorry, but you are plain wrong.
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Add to that Dad's who call their sons mate. He is not your mate, he's your son and there is a big difference when you have to order him into the garden with your new shovel.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
Guilty as charged! I know i shouldn't but it slips out! (I usually call him "boy" which is a bit of a family joke, but also m'dear, darlin', chum, pal and, when he's been bad, by his complete full name.
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Noooooooo! another one! teach them to say "Thank You" - they may well not be able to manage saying the words properly, but they need to be taught properly - otherwise you will get a struggle telling them not to say "ta" later on (unless you are a bogan and want your kids to say ta. I'm sorry, but you are plain wrong.
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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_Maxxx_ wrote:
I'm sorry, but you are plain wrong.
Well I disagree. He cant say thank you or anything close to it at the moment. I figure the ritual of saying something is better than saying nothing.
Nah - don't underestimate him. He may not be able to form the words properly, but he WILL understand that he's meant to be saying Thank You and not Ta. My son's vocabulary and understanding of language is excellent (he's 7) not because we've taught him or tried to do anything other than just talk to him sensibly. never did the "goo-goo gah-gah" thing, and understood that he didn't understand (or need to understand0 many of the words we used when he was a baby - then he just needed the sounds, tone speaks volumes as someone probably said. And it is far more endearing when you son, rather than pointing 'down there' and shouting "willy willy", looks up at you with tears in his eyes and says "I caught my penis in my zip, and it stings a LOT!" m
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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I absolutely could not agree less. Mispronunciation is fine (if it is gently corrected on occasion) but to actually teach 'baby' words slows down the whole learning process. You should not talk baby language to your children - sure you should simplify your speech so that they an comprehend it, but they will learn just fine if you talk to them normally. Teach your child to say "Thank You". She may only manage to say 'anka' - but that's fine - but YOU should NOT say "anka"
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
Why thank you Maxxx, I'm not at all sure that the cognitive scientists such as Noam Chomsky would agree with your point of view. from [^] [quote] Noam Chomsky raised 2 key questions: (1) How can a baby know where a word in a sentence begin or end? Our observation: A baby's world of language is different from that of an adult. Babies' world of language in the first 15 months has no words, only sounds and rhythms, which they associate with particular actions or events. Chomsky's question was wrongly phrased. (2) How can a baby 3 year old speak in perfect grammar? It must be inate, from an international grammar gene. Our findings: Babies aquire a language through 4 distinct stages. 1st stage, from birth to around 12 months, the development of the voice recognition system, with wiring of synapes through stimulation from words spoken by mom and other human beings; 2nd stage: immitation and production of these sounds, with all the details in pitch and rhythm; 3rd stage: vocabulary building, from 15th month onwards, when a child begins to ask "What is this?" 4th stage: pattern finding. A child is intensely interested in the patterns of words they use everyday. They become experts in pattern finding and applications. Grammar is learned in the 3rd year as word patterns through frequent usage, not inborn. [/quote]
modified on Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:24 AM
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Why in the name of all that his holy do parents teach their small children to say "Ta"? FFS The number of times I have heard mothers say to their kids, when they've received a present or something, "say 'Ta'". I mean, doesn't the kid have to suffer through life enough being called "Chames" or "Deen", "Daizee" or whatever, but learning to say "ta" rather than "Thanks You" or event "Thanks" is just shoving them to the back of the queue, ready to be a checkout chick or work in maccas. Ahhhhrgh
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
firstly i would look at the age of the child, if around 2 then i would say "ta" is acceptable due to their level of speech (i think its do something with the amount of sylabuls (yes to the spelling police its more than likely wrong!) in the word. . if you can find me a child around 2 year old speaking at the level you would want them then i will change my view. i have a one year old that use's ta, but his older brothers say thank you!
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firstly i would look at the age of the child, if around 2 then i would say "ta" is acceptable due to their level of speech (i think its do something with the amount of sylabuls (yes to the spelling police its more than likely wrong!) in the word. . if you can find me a child around 2 year old speaking at the level you would want them then i will change my view. i have a one year old that use's ta, but his older brothers say thank you!
I don't necessarily think it's wrong for a v young child to say 'ta' f that's all they can manage - what I object to and believe is misguided is for adults to teach them to say "ta" rather than "thank you" Yes, multiple sylables are difficult for a v young child - but thanks and you are single sylables. You is a familiar word at a young age - so Thank is simply a new word, one sylable/ question is, does your 1 year old use Ta because you have taugh him to use that (in which case a bogan you are) or is it just an internal (i.e. self-taught) approximation of thankyou or thanks? And, of course it is posisble for children to unlearn one thing they have been taught and to relearn something else - and in some complex cases it is necessary ( lioke you don't teach relativity you teach newtonian physixs- becasue that will do until the basics are grasped).
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Why thank you Maxxx, I'm not at all sure that the cognitive scientists such as Noam Chomsky would agree with your point of view. from [^] [quote] Noam Chomsky raised 2 key questions: (1) How can a baby know where a word in a sentence begin or end? Our observation: A baby's world of language is different from that of an adult. Babies' world of language in the first 15 months has no words, only sounds and rhythms, which they associate with particular actions or events. Chomsky's question was wrongly phrased. (2) How can a baby 3 year old speak in perfect grammar? It must be inate, from an international grammar gene. Our findings: Babies aquire a language through 4 distinct stages. 1st stage, from birth to around 12 months, the development of the voice recognition system, with wiring of synapes through stimulation from words spoken by mom and other human beings; 2nd stage: immitation and production of these sounds, with all the details in pitch and rhythm; 3rd stage: vocabulary building, from 15th month onwards, when a child begins to ask "What is this?" 4th stage: pattern finding. A child is intensely interested in the patterns of words they use everyday. They become experts in pattern finding and applications. Grammar is learned in the 3rd year as word patterns through frequent usage, not inborn. [/quote]
modified on Tuesday, April 13, 2010 6:24 AM
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Why thank you Maxxx, I'm not at all sure that the cognitive scientists such as Noam Chomsky would agree with your point of view.
Is this sarcasm? difficult to tell with a posting like this one. No offense meant - just genuinely difficult to tell and my first instinct is that sarcasm is meant - but then you go on to dispute chimsky (with whome I disagree). I'm not talking grammer, I'm talking essentially a single short word phrase.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Babies' world of language in the first 15 months has no words, only sounds and rhythms, which they associate with particular actions or events.
Yep - let's take that as fact and not argue about it - so the baby can hear the sound "thank you" and the sound "ta" (and their name, Mummy , daddy, etc.) and although they do try to imitate at that age, they don't have the physical ability to copy the sounds. But they can associate the sound "thank you" with being given (or giving) something.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
through stimulation from words spoken by mom and other human beings;
like, erm, "thank you" and not "ta"
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
with all the details in pitch and rhythm
like, erm, "thank you" and not "ta"
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
vocabulary building,
like, erm, "thank you" and not "ta"
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Grammar is learned in the 3rd year as word patterns through frequent usage,
Yep - like, erm, "thank you" and not "ta" Essentially, I believe that
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Why in the name of all that his holy do parents teach their small children to say "Ta"? FFS The number of times I have heard mothers say to their kids, when they've received a present or something, "say 'Ta'". I mean, doesn't the kid have to suffer through life enough being called "Chames" or "Deen", "Daizee" or whatever, but learning to say "ta" rather than "Thanks You" or event "Thanks" is just shoving them to the back of the queue, ready to be a checkout chick or work in maccas. Ahhhhrgh
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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I don't necessarily think it's wrong for a v young child to say 'ta' f that's all they can manage - what I object to and believe is misguided is for adults to teach them to say "ta" rather than "thank you" Yes, multiple sylables are difficult for a v young child - but thanks and you are single sylables. You is a familiar word at a young age - so Thank is simply a new word, one sylable/ question is, does your 1 year old use Ta because you have taugh him to use that (in which case a bogan you are) or is it just an internal (i.e. self-taught) approximation of thankyou or thanks? And, of course it is posisble for children to unlearn one thing they have been taught and to relearn something else - and in some complex cases it is necessary ( lioke you don't teach relativity you teach newtonian physixs- becasue that will do until the basics are grasped).
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
Now see this arguement could go on for ever.. For my one year old i use simple words as "ta" etc. As I would rather that he learns about manners early and simplely, but this evolves as he grows ups For my other children who are 3 or older i use more appropiate words to thier vocabulary suchs as "thanks", "thank you". But for my oldest who suffers from autism i've had to take a slower approach as his understanding of vocabulary is slower. Yes i could adopt your stance and teach him words that aren't slang or abbreivated, but you run the risk of them not understanding the meaning of the word!
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firstly i would look at the age of the child, if around 2 then i would say "ta" is acceptable due to their level of speech (i think its do something with the amount of sylabuls (yes to the spelling police its more than likely wrong!) in the word. . if you can find me a child around 2 year old speaking at the level you would want them then i will change my view. i have a one year old that use's ta, but his older brothers say thank you!
Huh? A 2 year old should be talking rather well, considering a not-completely-formed mouth and the attention span of a poodle. If you Facebook, go to http://www.facebook.com/daniel.j.wojcik and check out the videos of my son. He turned 2 in February, but there are vids going back to well before that.
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Yes, this is a Pennsylvania Dutch speaking family. Being immersed in their culture, I am amazed at what great common sense they have. Seems to have disappeared in our modern "society". They don't teach the little guy "Da" because he can't say Danke. They teach him Danke. His older brothers, 8 & 11, are trying to teach my wife and I a little German. I can't pronounce their words, but they don't slack on me just because it's difficult. Nor should they. Side note: the 11 y.o. watched viewed pictures being displayed on an iPhone. He can now tell you how to operate the thing! :thumbsup:
Gary