Free trade
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
We don't have a free market schristan, we haven't had one since 1913
What do you think was so momentus in 1913? The Sherman Antitrust Act[^] was passed in 1890 because it was painfully obvious that unregulated markets had produced so many monopolies which they always do. And it wasn't a marginal passage, 51-1 in the Senate and 242-0 in the House. And markets haven't been free from the beginning. At the beginning the country was mostly financed by tariffs so the people couldn't buy those cheap foreign goods.
The wonderful thing about the Darwin Awards is that everyone wins, especially the members of the audience.
Tim Craig wrote:
What do you think was so momentus in 1913?
That is when the federal reserve was created. When you have something like the federal reserve, you need endless amounts of government control over markets to try to keep things in check, but the problem is that those regulations create even more problems so they have to create more regulations, in the end you have a complete backwards system that only a few mega corporations can benfits from, and those mega corporations are in bed with the government and vise-versa. It is all about money and power. Once someone has the power to create money out of thin air and command markets, everyone loses except for the top 1%
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
We don't have a free market schristan, we haven't had one since 1913
What do you think was so momentus in 1913? The Sherman Antitrust Act[^] was passed in 1890 because it was painfully obvious that unregulated markets had produced so many monopolies which they always do. And it wasn't a marginal passage, 51-1 in the Senate and 242-0 in the House. And markets haven't been free from the beginning. At the beginning the country was mostly financed by tariffs so the people couldn't buy those cheap foreign goods.
The wonderful thing about the Darwin Awards is that everyone wins, especially the members of the audience.
Milton Friedman PBS Free to Choose 1980 Vol 1 of 10 Power of the Market[^] Here is a good documentary by Milton Freidman, he explains why freemarkets are better than controlled markets, and halfway through a serious debate between him and several high level government officials and economist who disagree with him take place. It is a very good documentary, old but good. Very professional.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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Christian Graus wrote:
Why would it ?
Because it prevents the devaluation of currency (or in other words theft on a grand scale). Remember how you were bitching about taking pay cuts do to the weakness of the dollar? It is getting weaker by the week, once the dollar collapses you will be bitching about how nobody will accept your worthless money.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Remember how you were bitching about taking pay cuts do to the weakness of the dollar? It is getting weaker by the week, once the dollar collapses you will be bitching about how nobody will accept your worthless money.
That's a result of currency being floated. If gold was not a fixed price, it would do the same. Your money is worthless because you're paying for all the borrowing you've done in the past decade, off the back of a deregulated market. That's kind of the point. Fixing the prices of our currencies would have the same effect as having a fixed price for gold and making that our money.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Tim Craig wrote:
What do you think was so momentus in 1913?
That is when the federal reserve was created. When you have something like the federal reserve, you need endless amounts of government control over markets to try to keep things in check, but the problem is that those regulations create even more problems so they have to create more regulations, in the end you have a complete backwards system that only a few mega corporations can benfits from, and those mega corporations are in bed with the government and vise-versa. It is all about money and power. Once someone has the power to create money out of thin air and command markets, everyone loses except for the top 1%
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
And I'm telling you the economy was out of whack long before that in the era you think of as being "free market". There were monopolies rising right and left. What do you think you'd be paying for gas if John D Rockefeller had been left to his own devices?
The wonderful thing about the Darwin Awards is that everyone wins, especially the members of the audience.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Remember how you were bitching about taking pay cuts do to the weakness of the dollar? It is getting weaker by the week, once the dollar collapses you will be bitching about how nobody will accept your worthless money.
That's a result of currency being floated. If gold was not a fixed price, it would do the same. Your money is worthless because you're paying for all the borrowing you've done in the past decade, off the back of a deregulated market. That's kind of the point. Fixing the prices of our currencies would have the same effect as having a fixed price for gold and making that our money.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
If gold was not a fixed price
Gold and silver's value is based on supply, same as for all currencies.
Christian Graus wrote:
Your money is worthless because you're paying for all the borrowing you've done in the past decade
Is most of your money dollars? The value of the dollar is declining because of increased supply from the federal reserve loaning out trillions of new dollars to governments and corporations.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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And I'm telling you the economy was out of whack long before that in the era you think of as being "free market". There were monopolies rising right and left. What do you think you'd be paying for gas if John D Rockefeller had been left to his own devices?
The wonderful thing about the Darwin Awards is that everyone wins, especially the members of the audience.
We have had two other central banks come in and out of existence before the federal reserve. However when our market was more free, we produced more and had a higher standard of living. It has never been truly free, as you said even when America was born, we had tariffs and a variety of other senseless controls.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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Christian Graus wrote:
If gold was not a fixed price
Gold and silver's value is based on supply, same as for all currencies.
Christian Graus wrote:
Your money is worthless because you're paying for all the borrowing you've done in the past decade
Is most of your money dollars? The value of the dollar is declining because of increased supply from the federal reserve loaning out trillions of new dollars to governments and corporations.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Gold and silver's value is based on supply, same as for all currencies.
So the only thing that would stop gold rising in price, is limited supply. After we destroy as much of the earth as we can to find it all.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Is most of your money dollars?
My money is in AUD. I get paid in USD, but I keep no money in USD. I am not interested in speculating, and I think in the short term I'd only lose by doing so.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The value of the dollar is declining because of increased supply from the federal reserve loaning out trillions of new dollars to governments and corporations.
You know, you just don't get it. Assuming a limitless supply of money to lend, don't you see that it would make no difference if there was regulation to stop money being lent to people who could not pay it back for short term gain ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Gold and silver's value is based on supply, same as for all currencies.
So the only thing that would stop gold rising in price, is limited supply. After we destroy as much of the earth as we can to find it all.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Is most of your money dollars?
My money is in AUD. I get paid in USD, but I keep no money in USD. I am not interested in speculating, and I think in the short term I'd only lose by doing so.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The value of the dollar is declining because of increased supply from the federal reserve loaning out trillions of new dollars to governments and corporations.
You know, you just don't get it. Assuming a limitless supply of money to lend, don't you see that it would make no difference if there was regulation to stop money being lent to people who could not pay it back for short term gain ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
After we destroy as much of the earth as we can to find it all.
I don't think the earth minds us digging in the dirt.
Christian Graus wrote:
Assuming a limitless supply of money to lend, don't you see that it would make no difference if there was regulation to stop money being lent to people who could not pay it back for short term gain ?
That wouldn't be a problem if they had to use their own money for loans. The fed create the incentives to be reckless, the fed enabled them to profit off of bad loans because the fed gave them all the money adn they knew that they would get bailed out when the bubble burst.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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Christian Graus wrote:
After we destroy as much of the earth as we can to find it all.
I don't think the earth minds us digging in the dirt.
Christian Graus wrote:
Assuming a limitless supply of money to lend, don't you see that it would make no difference if there was regulation to stop money being lent to people who could not pay it back for short term gain ?
That wouldn't be a problem if they had to use their own money for loans. The fed create the incentives to be reckless, the fed enabled them to profit off of bad loans because the fed gave them all the money adn they knew that they would get bailed out when the bubble burst.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I don't think the earth minds us digging in the dirt.
That's because you're stupid and think the earth has unlimited trees, farmland, etc.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The fed create the incentives to be reckless, the fed enabled them to profit off of bad loans because the fed gave them all the money adn they knew that they would get bailed out when the bubble burst.
And instead of allowing that, the government should regulate to stop them. Can't you see that your mantra of 'free trade and small government' and your ranting about the Fed are diametrically opposed ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I don't think the earth minds us digging in the dirt.
That's because you're stupid and think the earth has unlimited trees, farmland, etc.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The fed create the incentives to be reckless, the fed enabled them to profit off of bad loans because the fed gave them all the money adn they knew that they would get bailed out when the bubble burst.
And instead of allowing that, the government should regulate to stop them. Can't you see that your mantra of 'free trade and small government' and your ranting about the Fed are diametrically opposed ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
the government should regulate to stop them.
Now you are getting it, End the Fed.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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Christian Graus wrote:
the government should regulate to stop them.
Now you are getting it, End the Fed.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
My sole point is that some sort of regulation is needed. And that this, and your desire to attack and regulate the supply of money are at odds with your desire to limit the power of government as much as possible.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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We have had two other central banks come in and out of existence before the federal reserve. However when our market was more free, we produced more and had a higher standard of living. It has never been truly free, as you said even when America was born, we had tariffs and a variety of other senseless controls.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
Tariffs are designed to protect industry. Australia has slid further and further into debt since we did away with them.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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My sole point is that some sort of regulation is needed. And that this, and your desire to attack and regulate the supply of money are at odds with your desire to limit the power of government as much as possible.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
As I said to Timmy Greag. When you have something like the federal reserve, you need endless amounts of government control over markets to try to keep things in check, but the problem is that those regulations create even more problems so they have to create more regulations, in the end you have a complete backwards system that only a few mega corporations can benfits from, and those mega corporations are in bed with the government and vise-versa.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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As I said to Timmy Greag. When you have something like the federal reserve, you need endless amounts of government control over markets to try to keep things in check, but the problem is that those regulations create even more problems so they have to create more regulations, in the end you have a complete backwards system that only a few mega corporations can benfits from, and those mega corporations are in bed with the government and vise-versa.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
But the issue here is deregulation. The problem is lack of control. You have it backwards.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Milton Friedman PBS Free to Choose 1980 Vol 1 of 10 Power of the Market[^] Here is a good documentary by Milton Freidman, he explains why freemarkets are better than controlled markets, and halfway through a serious debate between him and several high level government officials and economist who disagree with him take place. It is a very good documentary, old but good. Very professional.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
It is a very good documentary, old but good. Very professional.
And yet proven totally wrong by the GFC. Everyone pursued free markets. That's why were in a mess now.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I'm still reading this book. One thing I think he is right about - the GFC is proof that an economy that is left to it's own devices is a threat to the welfare of the nations that allow it. I don't see how anyone could be so ignorant as to think that the markets can control themselves, I thought that before the proof was right in our faces.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
The thought that markets can control themselves is an example of anarchy. In itself a wonderful idea, but depends entirely on members of that system being responsible. This is of course not human nature to a large extent.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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But the issue here is deregulation. The problem is lack of control. You have it backwards.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Lack of control over the fed, correct.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
It is a very good documentary, old but good. Very professional.
And yet proven totally wrong by the GFC. Everyone pursued free markets. That's why were in a mess now.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
The GFC was create by the federal reserve flooding the market with new money at incredibly low interest rates, that new money fueled the housing bubble..
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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The GFC was create by the federal reserve flooding the market with new money at incredibly low interest rates, that new money fueled the housing bubble..
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
Stupidity fueled the housing bubble. I really wished I could have snagged this magazine when I was inteviewing, but I didn't. Effectively it had 'Our last issue' across the top on a big red banner, talking about how awesome the housing market was. Now, I don't know about you, but I'm not taking shit for advice from someone who can't keep their magazine running. I did some checking later against other places from the same time period, they were all pointing to the 'oh crap, we caused a bubble' end of things at the same time. Over a year before most people seemed to figure it out. Except of course those who aimed to benefit in the short term rather than realizing they'd be screwed later.
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Stupidity fueled the housing bubble. I really wished I could have snagged this magazine when I was inteviewing, but I didn't. Effectively it had 'Our last issue' across the top on a big red banner, talking about how awesome the housing market was. Now, I don't know about you, but I'm not taking shit for advice from someone who can't keep their magazine running. I did some checking later against other places from the same time period, they were all pointing to the 'oh crap, we caused a bubble' end of things at the same time. Over a year before most people seemed to figure it out. Except of course those who aimed to benefit in the short term rather than realizing they'd be screwed later.
Distind wrote:
Stupidity fueled the housing bubble.
Which is why allowing the federal reserve to operate is a bad idea, it is too much power for one person to handle. A small mistake can be catastrophic.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]