Subprime mortgage crisis [modified]
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I did not want him to get involved. I will continue with my side of the argument. Stiff upper lip and all that. But I know all is lost, since he is now "on my side". :sigh:
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
But I know all is lost, since he is now "on my side"
You are a victim of mental illness, and drugs are your solution. You are a pathetic defeatist.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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Telling banks they need to lend to disadvantaged people is obviously a bad idea. Telling them that, and NOT controlling how they do it, is obviously worse.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
Telling banks they need to lend to disadvantaged people is obviously a bad idea. Telling them that, and NOT controlling how they do it, is obviously worse.
Not telling them, and not controlling them, may even be better. The problem with intervention is you can ALWAYS say there wasn't enough.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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You are the one who is mentally ill, you said it yourself, a majorly depressed maniac on drugs. Calling me mentally ill is a strawman. You are your own worst enemy.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Calling me mentally ill is a strawman.
Calling you mentally ill is the voice of experience. Please Get Help. It will make your life better. On the off chance it does not, it will at least make our lives better.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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:(( :(( :(( :(( :(( I wish he would get help. This may be a good excuse for me to bow out for the evening. It's after midnight and I have to be at the customer's early.
Christian Graus wrote:
Read a book or something.
:laugh: :laugh: I wasn't going to argue this, too, but we have no evidence that he can read more than a paragraph or two. And not much reason to believe he can even comprehend that much.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
I wish he would get help.
Judgmentalism is placing others on a lower level to cover one's own inadequacies. "If you would get some counseling yourself, then I think that I could handle the situation." Again, you are the one that is mentally ill, as you said yourself, a majorly depressed maniac.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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RichardM1 wrote:
But I know all is lost, since he is now "on my side"
You are a victim of mental illness, and drugs are your solution. You are a pathetic defeatist.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You are a victim of mental illness, and drugs are your solution.
No. I have mental illness, but I control it. Unlike you, I am not its victim.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You are a pathetic defeatist.
And yet, I am more functional than you. Get Help Lots of Help.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Calling me mentally ill is a strawman.
Calling you mentally ill is the voice of experience. Please Get Help. It will make your life better. On the off chance it does not, it will at least make our lives better.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
On the off chance it does not, it will at least make our lives better.
Again, judgmentalism is placing others on a lower level to cover one's own inadequacies. "If you would get some counseling yourself, then I think that I could handle the situation." You are the drugged mental case, not me.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You are a victim of mental illness, and drugs are your solution.
No. I have mental illness, but I control it. Unlike you, I am not its victim.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You are a pathetic defeatist.
And yet, I am more functional than you. Get Help Lots of Help.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
I have mental illness, but I control it.
You let others control your life. In your profile you changed career because of an instructor you couldn't handle. You are a defeatist.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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RichardM1 wrote:
I wish he would get help.
Judgmentalism is placing others on a lower level to cover one's own inadequacies. "If you would get some counseling yourself, then I think that I could handle the situation." Again, you are the one that is mentally ill, as you said yourself, a majorly depressed maniac.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Judgmentalism is placing others on a lower level to cover one's own inadequacies. "If you would get some counseling yourself, then I think that I could handle the situation."
Yes, it can be. But I don't place you on a lower level to cover any of my inadequacies. I place you there because of your inadequacies, and your unwillingness to control them. I admit my inadequacies and faults. They don't scare me. Knowing them helps me to make myself better. I can learn to overcome them, or I can also decide not to change them. But it is my decision, not the government shooting mind rays at me.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
a majorly depressed maniac.
I know you don't really understand the terms, but please at least parrot back to me what I said to you. :rolleyes: And get help. Lots of help. You need it.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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RichardM1 wrote:
On the off chance it does not, it will at least make our lives better.
Again, judgmentalism is placing others on a lower level to cover one's own inadequacies. "If you would get some counseling yourself, then I think that I could handle the situation." You are the drugged mental case, not me.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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RichardM1 wrote:
I have mental illness, but I control it.
You let others control your life. In your profile you changed career because of an instructor you couldn't handle. You are a defeatist.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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This is exactly what I was saying a few days ago. Nations need to regulate markets to force them to not act against their interests. Capitalism without any controls will act in the interests of the few at the top.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
I have just read this an have to say that this is an interesting argument. (minus the CSS rantings!) I dont believe its the governments fault we had this crisis, it was there fault that they allowed the banks to operate in the way they did. As Gordon brown admitted he should of regulated the UK banks sooner rather than post crisis.
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RichardM1 wrote:
But I know all is lost, since he is now "on my side"
You are a victim of mental illness, and drugs are your solution. You are a pathetic defeatist.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
please tell me you are not being serious and trying to just cause an argument! I have respect for RichardM1 because he is honest about his condition and is taking action to keep it under control. One of my kids needs to take medication to control his condition of ADHD. so my answer to you is grow some balls and make a reasonable argument rather than belittling someone!
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Christian Graus wrote:
workers were treated when the government did not defend their rights at all.
There right to what exactly? Private property or personal liberty? What rights in the constitution were being violated?
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
What rights in the constitution were being violated?
What constitution ? I'm in Australia.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
There right to what exactly? Private property or personal liberty?
Their right to not be exploited. To be offered conditions of employment that don't require them to choose between a workplace where injury is common, and starvation. What happened to meat workers in the 1890s is not that far removed from how Walmart etc hire casual labour only, giving people no stable income and no benefits. The creation of an underclass of people who cannot rely on a stable income, denies them the most basic human rights and freedoms.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I have just read this an have to say that this is an interesting argument. (minus the CSS rantings!) I dont believe its the governments fault we had this crisis, it was there fault that they allowed the banks to operate in the way they did. As Gordon brown admitted he should of regulated the UK banks sooner rather than post crisis.
Yes, that's kind of my point. It was a sin of omission on the part of the government.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Calling me mentally ill is a strawman.
Calling you mentally ill is the voice of experience. Please Get Help. It will make your life better. On the off chance it does not, it will at least make our lives better.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
I taught him what a 'strawman' argument was. Before I explained it, he thought it was a name, so he called me a strawman back !!! Now he's so proud that he kind of gets the idea, that he uses it all the time.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Despite all the evidence that it was unfettered capitalism that, at the core, motivated the banks to do what they did, to our detriment ?
What they did to our detriment was skim off what had previously been added by their same shenanigans. But you don't hear that from the pro-regulators, do you? All those trillions lost. They were all fake money to begin with, put there by the same people who were responsible for taking it away. In the end, how much did we really gain or lose? Take a look at net worth and GDP. Can't find net worth numbers, so GDP and DJIA. We got kicked all the way back to 2006 in GDP, and 2005 in GDP/capita - these are constant 2005 dollars[^] Dow Jones is back above 2005 levels, and that was after a huge freaking run from 1982. That is part of the problem. You had people in the financial industry for 20+ years who had never seen a real bad year. The world believed this would go on forever, and congress went right along with them. Growing the government faster than wealth was growing. Really responsible. They are who I want to regulate stuff. Since they know how to keep their own house in order, so well. So, after a Dow < 800 in 1982, it rose to 14,000 in 07/08 almost 20 times, and then we give back a piece of it. Look at this chart[^] of the DJIA since 189x, the log graph on the right. If you draw a line from the 1900 peak through the 1960 peak, we are still above that line. That is what partially fettered capitalism will get you. We have a couple bad years of government interference :laugh: and you want to throw it away. :rolleyes:
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
That is what partially fettered capitalism will get you.
Exactly. Government needs not to be in bed with lobbyists, and it needs to act entirely in the interests of the people.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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RichardM1 wrote:
I wish he would get help.
Judgmentalism is placing others on a lower level to cover one's own inadequacies. "If you would get some counseling yourself, then I think that I could handle the situation." Again, you are the one that is mentally ill, as you said yourself, a majorly depressed maniac.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
He is getting treatment. That's exactly what we're wishing on you - treatment so you can overcome your illness. You, not him, is the one controlled by mental illness. He's the one with the guts to do something about it, and to be honest and up front about it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
So, if markets are free, the top 1% won't do whatever they want ( given there's no regulation ) to further their interests, at the cost of the other 99% ?
They can't do anything at the cost of everyone else if there were a free market. You ignore the fact that a central bank wouldn't exist in a free market and governments wouldn't be making laws enabling the top 1% to rob the public. Without the manipulations of currency and markets things would even out.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
They can't do anything at the cost of everyone else if there were a free market.
Rubbish. A free market means the rich are free to do whatever they like to stay rich, and the other 95% of people just have to live in the world they create.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You ignore the fact that a central bank wouldn't exist in a free market and governments wouldn't be making laws enabling the top 1% to rob the public. Without the manipulations of currency and markets things would even out.
Wrong. Regardless of the state of currency, there will always be people on top, and people on the bottom of societies ladder. Only government can legislate to force those on top to pay some respect to those beneath them.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
So, you believe that before there was regulation, everyone was better off ? I
When we had less regulation in the United States. we were much better off. We produced more, taxes were low, we had sound money, stronger local communities, less crime, less corruption, and lots of opportunity.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
This is a pipe dream. You produced more because of protectionism or perhaps because it was before the jobs existed in China. What does 'sound money' mean ? Do you have any idea what the standard of living was in the 1940s ? Your house, with your level of poverty, is probably a dream come true to the average middle class American of 60 years ago. Communities were stronger, perhaps, but there's no reason for them not to be today, how is that the fault of regulation ? And, FYI, crime rates in the US have been steadily dropping for a long time. It's your hyped up and biased news that has you worried about crime when it's never been lower. As for opportunity, I took 12 months to write a program which launched a company in the US, and 12 months later we sold it, and I paid off my houses. There's plenty of opportunity in America for people willing to work hard. Being unemployable and under the grip of mental illness is not something you can blame on the government.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I don't know how I ended up reading this article in wikipedia, I remember I was reading an article related to encryption, but many clicks later I was reading this one, very interesting. Wikipedia is a more trusted source of information, compared to CSS's beloved infowars, it has references to articles, suggests further reading and external links, that in the case of this article is good enough to say the information it has can be trusted. Subprime mortgage crisis I'm not an economist, but my understanding about the crisis before reading the article was good enough and now I can say I had the facts right, and I want to point out a few pieces that I'd love to know what others think about, its a long article if you're interested in reading it
Both government failed regulation and deregulation contributed to the crisis. In testimony before Congress both the Securities and
Exchange Commission (SEC) and Alan Greenspan conceded failure in allowing the self-regulation of investment banks.Look at this, letting banks do whatever they want was one of the causes, interesting indeed, its the government's fault in one part for not regulating them, so the government trusted them thinking they will behave, act fairly, etc, look what happened. So, can someone explain to me, why having a NO REGULATED market is better than a regulated one? the dot com crisis was because the same reasons, not regulating the companies, the mortage crisis was for not regulating, how can we trust in self-regulated companies? have they given any signs to be trustworthy so far? Maybe CSS in his infinite wisdom can explain it, any name calling, not giving links to trusted sources (infowars is not one of them) or avoid answering will just demonstrate what many have said about him, I provided one link that has references to over 200 sources of information, 14 books to understand better the problem and 9 external links... If he provides enough trusted information that contradicts this article I'll be the first one to apologize for not believing what he said, otherwise I'll just keep demonstrating him how much FAIL in his life he has.
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
modified on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 4:35 PM
Gonzoox wrote:
letting banks do whatever they want was one of the causes
Well, I believe that banks were put under pressure to lend to people who had no collateral or stability money to buy their home. Somone on this forum has attetsed to that because he worked for a bank at the time. So this is an example of 'failed government regulation'. An exampl of failed NON regulation would be letting the ratings agencies lie about the value and risk of credit products. Giving everything a tripple A just to get the commision is actually fraudulent. Its a complex thing. Greed and altruism have played their parts in this. And of course altruism stems fomr the belief that we are all equal. Somehting clearly untrue.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription