Subprime mortgage crisis [modified]
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please tell me you are not being serious and trying to just cause an argument! I have respect for RichardM1 because he is honest about his condition and is taking action to keep it under control. One of my kids needs to take medication to control his condition of ADHD. so my answer to you is grow some balls and make a reasonable argument rather than belittling someone!
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Gonzoox wrote:
letting banks do whatever they want was one of the causes
Well, I believe that banks were put under pressure to lend to people who had no collateral or stability money to buy their home. Somone on this forum has attetsed to that because he worked for a bank at the time. So this is an example of 'failed government regulation'. An exampl of failed NON regulation would be letting the ratings agencies lie about the value and risk of credit products. Giving everything a tripple A just to get the commision is actually fraudulent. Its a complex thing. Greed and altruism have played their parts in this. And of course altruism stems fomr the belief that we are all equal. Somehting clearly untrue.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
altruism stems fomr the belief that we are all equal
Often it does not. Carnegie, Gates, Getty and others did not give freely of their wealth because they think everyone is equal. If anything, believing others to be equal, yet unable to do what you do what you do, is a cause for contempt. I help people who I think need it, not because they are equally capable and failed, but because they are unequally capable, and need help. I don't help a strong man to carry his bar-bells, I help an old lady who needs her tire changed. He is capable, and needs no help. She needs it.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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I don't know how I ended up reading this article in wikipedia, I remember I was reading an article related to encryption, but many clicks later I was reading this one, very interesting. Wikipedia is a more trusted source of information, compared to CSS's beloved infowars, it has references to articles, suggests further reading and external links, that in the case of this article is good enough to say the information it has can be trusted. Subprime mortgage crisis I'm not an economist, but my understanding about the crisis before reading the article was good enough and now I can say I had the facts right, and I want to point out a few pieces that I'd love to know what others think about, its a long article if you're interested in reading it
Both government failed regulation and deregulation contributed to the crisis. In testimony before Congress both the Securities and
Exchange Commission (SEC) and Alan Greenspan conceded failure in allowing the self-regulation of investment banks.Look at this, letting banks do whatever they want was one of the causes, interesting indeed, its the government's fault in one part for not regulating them, so the government trusted them thinking they will behave, act fairly, etc, look what happened. So, can someone explain to me, why having a NO REGULATED market is better than a regulated one? the dot com crisis was because the same reasons, not regulating the companies, the mortage crisis was for not regulating, how can we trust in self-regulated companies? have they given any signs to be trustworthy so far? Maybe CSS in his infinite wisdom can explain it, any name calling, not giving links to trusted sources (infowars is not one of them) or avoid answering will just demonstrate what many have said about him, I provided one link that has references to over 200 sources of information, 14 books to understand better the problem and 9 external links... If he provides enough trusted information that contradicts this article I'll be the first one to apologize for not believing what he said, otherwise I'll just keep demonstrating him how much FAIL in his life he has.
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
modified on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 4:35 PM
I want to thank everyone who participated and gave out their points of view, I want to apologize for CSS and his stupid arguments, he again failed to provide a reliable source of information. What I understand after reading again the article and your discussions, government "forced" the banks to give out this subprime loans, the government never actually gave out more money, what it did was to lower the rates, so money started flowing from other countries. I think this could have been avoided is some kind of regulation existed about the shadow banking, forcing this banks/companies to have more capital to support the loans, the big banks are already regulated, but this institutions that function like a bank don't have enough. The government needs regulations too, to force the central bank to act when a bubble that can end up in a crisis is being created, two bubbles are good example, the dot com and the suprime crisis. I'm not talking about removing freedom or rights to the people, I'm talking about playing with rules clear for everyone, I won't discuss if the people is treated fairly or not, this was not the point of this thread. To answer my own questions... an over regulated market is not good because it will create more problems, a non regulated market is not good also because for what it has created already, the problem is to figure out where the line between non regulated and over regulated is at...
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
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Christian Graus wrote:
Telling banks they need to lend to disadvantaged people is obviously a bad idea.
Yes, it was the regulations (including the regulation of the money supply and who gets the new money) that causes the GFC. What you are proposing would add even more regulations, causing even more problems.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
I supposed you have examples of current regulations that are causing more problems right? or you just are repeating something said by someone else who believed it, so please provide a current regulation that is causing more problems than benefits
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
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Once again here we have a problem created by the government, and guess who is the savior of the problem, the government. If it weren't for the federal reserve flooding the market with new money at low interest rates for the bankers to play with, and the government commanding markets to provide subprime loans we wouldn't have this mess. When you have something like the federal reserve, you need endless amounts of government control over markets to try to keep things in check, but the problem is that those regulations create even more problems so they have to create more regulations, in the end you have a complete backwards system that only a few mega corporations can benfits from, and those mega corporations are in bed with the government and vise-versa. It is all about money and power. Once someone has the power to create money out of thin air and command markets, everyone loses except for the top 1%
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
You're wrong, did you read the article? was not the federal reserve flooding the market with new money, was the government creating the conditions to make foreign money enter the country, you're stupid for still blaming the fed for something that didn't happen that way. Do you know what's the function of the federal reserve at all? do you?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
you have a complete backwards system that only a few mega corporations can benfits from
Isn't this what you want? capitalism!!!! you're always saying that if you can't afford it you should die, well, the mega corporations are playing their games in your capitalism, or now you're saying that is bad and they need to be regulated?? please explain
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
It is all about money and power.
In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women. - Tony Montana OK, weren't you the person talking saying when we had the discussion about healthcare if they can't afford it then they don't deserve to get treatment or something like that? it's all about money!!!
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
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please tell me you are not being serious and trying to just cause an argument! I have respect for RichardM1 because he is honest about his condition and is taking action to keep it under control. One of my kids needs to take medication to control his condition of ADHD. so my answer to you is grow some balls and make a reasonable argument rather than belittling someone!
Simon_Whale wrote:
One of my kids needs to take medication to control his condition of ADHD.
You give your kids amphetamines because of some bullshit condition that is probably a condition of the shitty diet and lack of exercise? Get him away from the TV and out of the little building and out of the city. You really do have the intelligence of a jungle monkey.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
What rights in the constitution were being violated?
What constitution ? I'm in Australia.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
There right to what exactly? Private property or personal liberty?
Their right to not be exploited. To be offered conditions of employment that don't require them to choose between a workplace where injury is common, and starvation. What happened to meat workers in the 1890s is not that far removed from how Walmart etc hire casual labour only, giving people no stable income and no benefits. The creation of an underclass of people who cannot rely on a stable income, denies them the most basic human rights and freedoms.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
Their right to not be exploited.
They can't be exploited unless they have the government forcing conditions on them.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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Simon_Whale wrote:
One of my kids needs to take medication to control his condition of ADHD.
You give your kids amphetamines because of some bullshit condition that is probably a condition of the shitty diet and lack of exercise? Get him away from the TV and out of the little building and out of the city. You really do have the intelligence of a jungle monkey.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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RichardM1 wrote:
On the off chance it does not, it will at least make our lives better.
Again, judgmentalism is placing others on a lower level to cover one's own inadequacies. "If you would get some counseling yourself, then I think that I could handle the situation." You are the drugged mental case, not me.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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RichardM1 wrote:
I wish he would get help.
Judgmentalism is placing others on a lower level to cover one's own inadequacies. "If you would get some counseling yourself, then I think that I could handle the situation." Again, you are the one that is mentally ill, as you said yourself, a majorly depressed maniac.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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Plagiarism: The act of presenting someone else's work[^] as your own.
Bob Emmett CSS: I don't intend to be a technical writing, I intend to be a software engineer.
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Christian Graus wrote:
denies them the most basic human rights and freedoms.
On what do you base these rights and freedoms, if you have no constitution? Can they be whatever the government decides? This is question, not argument. I will argue later, when I know more. :-D
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
On what do you base these rights and freedoms, if you have no constitution?
Common sense and decency ? We have a constitution. I understand why yours was a revolutionary document in it's time, and why you guys still over emphasise its impact today, but the fact is, so long as you have democracy, human rights flow, because if you stand in the way of people's basic liberties, they won't vote for you.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Their right to not be exploited.
They can't be exploited unless they have the government forcing conditions on them.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
You are an ignorant fool. You don't think that things like hunger and need for shelter will force people to take whatever work they are offered ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Simon_Whale wrote:
One of my kids needs to take medication to control his condition of ADHD.
You give your kids amphetamines because of some bullshit condition that is probably a condition of the shitty diet and lack of exercise? Get him away from the TV and out of the little building and out of the city. You really do have the intelligence of a jungle monkey.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
have you any idea what you are talking? please let me do your research for you definition of ADHD, there are more in google. do you know my son? my son has the fat level of an sport person, he out of his own choice eats fruit and veg on a daily basis and more than the recommend 5 day levels so with out knowing my son how can you blame his diet on the conidtion? get a life get off here and allow grown ups to constructively argue.. now curtesy of the UK police forces Run along nothing to see here
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RichardM1 wrote:
On what do you base these rights and freedoms, if you have no constitution?
Common sense and decency ? We have a constitution. I understand why yours was a revolutionary document in it's time, and why you guys still over emphasise its impact today, but the fact is, so long as you have democracy, human rights flow, because if you stand in the way of people's basic liberties, they won't vote for you.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
I wasn't complaining, just asking.
Christian Graus wrote:
but the fact is, so long as you have democracy, human rights flow, because if you stand in the way of people's basic liberties, they won't vote for you
As long as the majority don't figure out they can vote to soak the minority, as is happening here.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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:(( :(( :(( :(( :(( I wish he would get help. This may be a good excuse for me to bow out for the evening. It's after midnight and I have to be at the customer's early.
Christian Graus wrote:
Read a book or something.
:laugh: :laugh: I wasn't going to argue this, too, but we have no evidence that he can read more than a paragraph or two. And not much reason to believe he can even comprehend that much.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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The difference between noise and signal?
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]
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Trollslayer wrote:
The difference between noise and signal?
Sorry, I didn't understand. :) I was just complaining about, and ragging on, CSS.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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have you any idea what you are talking? please let me do your research for you definition of ADHD, there are more in google. do you know my son? my son has the fat level of an sport person, he out of his own choice eats fruit and veg on a daily basis and more than the recommend 5 day levels so with out knowing my son how can you blame his diet on the conidtion? get a life get off here and allow grown ups to constructively argue.. now curtesy of the UK police forces Run along nothing to see here
I don't know about over there, but here in Australia ADHD/ADD seem to be the flavour of the past decade, and ASD seems to be rapidly catching up. Any child who showed the slightest signs of being hyperactive or unfocussed seeemed to be labelled... I'm sure that there are some instances where there truly is some issue (eg: ADHD for your son), but here, it seems to be the most over-diagnosed and over-medicated issue in quite some time... Thoughts?
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! If you like cars, check out the Booger Mobile blog | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
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:-O I get treatment for my psoriasis to, it's no big deal. OK, it is a big deal. :(( :(( It is the 'heart break of psoriasis'.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
psoriasis
:(( Sorry to hear about that - I have a friend who gets that quite severely, so I feel your pain.
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! If you like cars, check out the Booger Mobile blog | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!