Mental Health Note
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Fisticuffs wrote:
Nothing that CSS has posted here is evidence of a psychiatric disorder.
Constant denial, paranoia, and lashing out when presented with an argument he can't win aren't really psychiatric disorders. I am going to have to agree here. He's not mentally ill. He's just an effing tool.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
He's not mentally ill. He's just an effing tool.
Sure but if you drive him from the forum or change his outlook (both of which have failed) the forum would be a less entertaining place. I must admit I enjoy the spats that happen here, I can drop in every week or so and count an amusing round on insults and name calling. Not much changes!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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RichardM1 wrote:
There are others things defined to be mental illnesses by the APA, but are really about being evil. The APA won't make value judgments, it might hurt self esteem, so they are called illnesses. Megalomania, psychopathy and others describe people who have no sense of value for other people.
The reason we don't make value judgments about people with antisocial personality disorder (psychopathy isn't a diagnosis) - or shockingly any other medical disorder! isn't because it will hurt their self-esteem, it's because value judgments tend to obscure objective ways of dealing with people with the disorder that have the minimum cost to society.
RichardM1 wrote:
But, sorry sap that he is, he is scared of being labeled, or something, and won't go.
Nothing that CSS has posted here is evidence of a psychiatric disorder.
- F
Off base for what? Because the APA changed disorder names so they won't have the stigma of the previous name? Because they change their disorder names so that people won't make value judgments about evil? Yes, psychopathy is no longer the preferred name for the diagnosis, but why is that? Because calling a psychopath a psychopath was no longer considered nice. Why shouldn't value judgments be made about evil? I'm not talking about someone catching the clap being evil. I'm talking about someone who has no value for human life. Someone who will do whatever they think they need to do to get what they want, with no remorse.
Fisticuffs wrote:
Nothing that CSS has posted here is evidence of a psychiatric disorder.
Certainly not. After all this is not a clinical setting, he wasn't asked the correct set of questions, nothing you say in this arena is trustworthy, yadda yadda. But if a friend of mine had the same number of signs for cancer, or heart disease, I would ask them to get checked out. I should have been clearer, I was not implying that CSS had any evil personality disorders. I don't think he is a danger to anyone but himself, and probably not himself.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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The doctor says I might have Schizophreniform Dysthymic Disorder .............. but its hard to say :rolleyes:
pompeyboy3 wrote:
The doctor says I might have Schizophreniform Dysthymic Disorder .............. but its hard to say Roll eyes Quote Selected Text
If I read that right, you have (broken or split) head shape, and you either (have the rhythm of a white boy) or (don't like Disney theme songs), and the carry out Chinese you are picking up was ordered wrong. Good luck with the carry out, man, and don't forget :beer:
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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I've mentioned that I have major clinical depression and minor bipolar disorder, and been treated w/meds since the late '90s. A couple of posts have said I was brave for mentioning it. A few said I was mentally ill (LOL, that's what I said) I also mentioned I have psoriasis, but nobody mentions bravery for that. I'm not brave to talk about my crazies, as I don't feel a stigma about it. Most mental illnesses (even CSS's, I think) are like diabetes. Your life suck if you don't treat them, and they may even kill you. But they are just a sickness. They hold more of a stigma than a corporeal disease, but are not that different: A diabetic does not properly control the production or utilization of insulin. I don't properly control the production or utilization of serotonin and dopamine. Both are glandular problems, mine just happens to be with my money maker. [shrug] One problem of the stigma is that CSS is unwilling to go to a shrink and find out if he is sick. If he was coughing blood on the keyboard, and we all told him to get checked out, he might. But, sorry sap that he is, he is scared of being labeled, or something, and won't go. This is not just the fault of the stigma. In his case, he probably just believes it's a plot. There are others things defined to be mental illnesses by the APA, but are really about being evil. The APA won't make value judgments, it might hurt self esteem, so they are called illnesses. Megalomania, psychopathy and others describe people who have no sense of value for other people. Evil. Even when we have an illness, we are responsible for what we do, the decisions that we make. If I killed myself, my kids would be fatherless and my wife a widow. Because of me. Responsible. People who are loons and do evil things are evil, just like people who are not loons who do evil things. But if they don't do evil things, then they are just like a diabetic or someone with a cold. Please evaluate how you think of loons, and don't make us think we gotta be brave to talk about it.:cool: CSS, go get help. Really. Now. Lots of it.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
I dont think CSS is bonkers. He is aggressive, and has a direct way of saying things, but that isnt a sign of mental illness. Your case is interesing though. Seratonin and dopameme are very powerfull hormones and we are only beginning to understand just how 'chemicaly driven' personality is. We shouldnt be so surprised though, look at how women change personality once a month! What IS interesting is why these chmicals are produced differently from one person to another, Perhaps it is just as random as physical strengthm or bone structure. Are there any exercies, mental ones, or diet suppliments that can efect this without relying on drugs? HAving said that I have a friend who takes proxac on occasion. He rates it pretty highly but he llikes to try to manage without it. On discussing things with him I reallise that I experience simmilar thoughts and feelings as he does. I just always thought it was part of life though, and quite frankly I have lived sufficiently long enough to understand myself and how I tick, and how to deal with depressing thoughts and moods when they arise.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Off base for what? Because the APA changed disorder names so they won't have the stigma of the previous name? Because they change their disorder names so that people won't make value judgments about evil? Yes, psychopathy is no longer the preferred name for the diagnosis, but why is that? Because calling a psychopath a psychopath was no longer considered nice. Why shouldn't value judgments be made about evil? I'm not talking about someone catching the clap being evil. I'm talking about someone who has no value for human life. Someone who will do whatever they think they need to do to get what they want, with no remorse.
Fisticuffs wrote:
Nothing that CSS has posted here is evidence of a psychiatric disorder.
Certainly not. After all this is not a clinical setting, he wasn't asked the correct set of questions, nothing you say in this arena is trustworthy, yadda yadda. But if a friend of mine had the same number of signs for cancer, or heart disease, I would ask them to get checked out. I should have been clearer, I was not implying that CSS had any evil personality disorders. I don't think he is a danger to anyone but himself, and probably not himself.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
I'm talking about someone who has no value for human life.
And the concept of having "value for human life" comes from the brain, which can be altered due to a number of structural, chemical, or developmental causes. You seem eager to moralize about these structural, chemical, or environmental defects when your own disorder (that others in the past have been equally eager to characterize as "lazy" or simply "a lack of willpower") has a similar broad underlying cause. It just seems somewhat selective.
RichardM1 wrote:
But if a friend of mine had the same number of signs for cancer, or heart disease, I would ask them to get checked out.
Then specifically what is the number of signs you have seen that suggest CSS has a psychiatric disorder, and what are they?
RichardM1 wrote:
I don't think he is a danger to anyone but himself, and probably not himself.
How do you know?
- F
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I dont think CSS is bonkers. He is aggressive, and has a direct way of saying things, but that isnt a sign of mental illness. Your case is interesing though. Seratonin and dopameme are very powerfull hormones and we are only beginning to understand just how 'chemicaly driven' personality is. We shouldnt be so surprised though, look at how women change personality once a month! What IS interesting is why these chmicals are produced differently from one person to another, Perhaps it is just as random as physical strengthm or bone structure. Are there any exercies, mental ones, or diet suppliments that can efect this without relying on drugs? HAving said that I have a friend who takes proxac on occasion. He rates it pretty highly but he llikes to try to manage without it. On discussing things with him I reallise that I experience simmilar thoughts and feelings as he does. I just always thought it was part of life though, and quite frankly I have lived sufficiently long enough to understand myself and how I tick, and how to deal with depressing thoughts and moods when they arise.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
Are there any exercies, mental ones, or diet suppliments that can efect this without relying on drugs?
Pretty much any type of physical exercise is fantastic for improving mood because of the endorphins produced. Mental exercises I'm not aware of - and since it is a chemical imbalance, it's unlikely that anyone will be able to change that just by thinking about it. Dietary supplements are just dose-uncontrolled untested pharmacological agents - that's if they have any active substances in them at all.
fat_boy wrote:
I have lived sufficiently long enough to understand myself and how I tick, and how to deal with depressing thoughts and moods when they arise.
Which suggests you don't have any sort of chemical imbalance. Major depressive disorder looks like this[^]. Everyone gets a depressed mood from time to time, but it's nowhere near the severity of what these people experience.
- F
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RichardM1 wrote:
I'm talking about someone who has no value for human life.
And the concept of having "value for human life" comes from the brain, which can be altered due to a number of structural, chemical, or developmental causes. You seem eager to moralize about these structural, chemical, or environmental defects when your own disorder (that others in the past have been equally eager to characterize as "lazy" or simply "a lack of willpower") has a similar broad underlying cause. It just seems somewhat selective.
RichardM1 wrote:
But if a friend of mine had the same number of signs for cancer, or heart disease, I would ask them to get checked out.
Then specifically what is the number of signs you have seen that suggest CSS has a psychiatric disorder, and what are they?
RichardM1 wrote:
I don't think he is a danger to anyone but himself, and probably not himself.
How do you know?
- F
Fisticuffs wrote:
And the concept of having "value for human life" comes from the brain, which can be altered due to a number of structural, chemical, or developmental causes.
Yes they can. But our decisions are our own. I have been suicidal, but I have chosen not to do it. It comes down to conscious decision, and what you are willing to do to your self and others.
Fisticuffs wrote:
You seem eager to moralize about these structural, chemical, or environmental defects when your own disorder (that others in the past have been equally eager to characterize as "lazy" or simply "a lack of willpower"). It just seems somewhat selective.
As devastating as my depression has been emotionally, I have always 'toughed it out', in terms of work. I have had major problems getting out of bed, but I do. YMMV. But that does not affect the major positive quality of life changes that getting treatment has had. That is all I have asked CSS to do, and why I told him to do it.
Fisticuffs wrote:
RichardM1 wrote:
I don't think he is a danger to anyone but himself, and probably not himself.
How do you know?
OK you win. He needs help.
Fisticuffs wrote:
Then specifically what is the number of signs you have seen that suggest CSS has a psychiatric disorder, and what are they?
The paranoia, the distrust of authority, the inability to see the fallacy of the arguments presented to him, and that he spews back to us. The ability to discount reality that does not fit his predefined notions. Th obsessive re-posting.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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fat_boy wrote:
Are there any exercies, mental ones, or diet suppliments that can efect this without relying on drugs?
Pretty much any type of physical exercise is fantastic for improving mood because of the endorphins produced. Mental exercises I'm not aware of - and since it is a chemical imbalance, it's unlikely that anyone will be able to change that just by thinking about it. Dietary supplements are just dose-uncontrolled untested pharmacological agents - that's if they have any active substances in them at all.
fat_boy wrote:
I have lived sufficiently long enough to understand myself and how I tick, and how to deal with depressing thoughts and moods when they arise.
Which suggests you don't have any sort of chemical imbalance. Major depressive disorder looks like this[^]. Everyone gets a depressed mood from time to time, but it's nowhere near the severity of what these people experience.
- F
Fisticuffs wrote:
Mental exercises I'm not aware of - and since it is a chemical imbalance, it's unlikely that anyone will be able to change that just by thinking about it
My understanding is that studies showed that meds vs psychotherapy ended up with the same chemical changes, just the meds started quicker, but had less lasting impact when treatment stopped. IIRC it has been 15-20 years since I saw the study.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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Fisticuffs wrote:
And the concept of having "value for human life" comes from the brain, which can be altered due to a number of structural, chemical, or developmental causes.
Yes they can. But our decisions are our own. I have been suicidal, but I have chosen not to do it. It comes down to conscious decision, and what you are willing to do to your self and others.
Fisticuffs wrote:
You seem eager to moralize about these structural, chemical, or environmental defects when your own disorder (that others in the past have been equally eager to characterize as "lazy" or simply "a lack of willpower"). It just seems somewhat selective.
As devastating as my depression has been emotionally, I have always 'toughed it out', in terms of work. I have had major problems getting out of bed, but I do. YMMV. But that does not affect the major positive quality of life changes that getting treatment has had. That is all I have asked CSS to do, and why I told him to do it.
Fisticuffs wrote:
RichardM1 wrote:
I don't think he is a danger to anyone but himself, and probably not himself.
How do you know?
OK you win. He needs help.
Fisticuffs wrote:
Then specifically what is the number of signs you have seen that suggest CSS has a psychiatric disorder, and what are they?
The paranoia, the distrust of authority, the inability to see the fallacy of the arguments presented to him, and that he spews back to us. The ability to discount reality that does not fit his predefined notions. Th obsessive re-posting.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
Yes they can. But our decisions are our own. I have been suicidal, but I have chosen not to do it. It comes down to conscious decision, and what you are willing to do to your self and others.
That's great if you have the capacity and the anchoring in reality to make such a decision. People with severe psychotic disorders quite often do not. How is it possible to call anything a psychotic person does a "conscious" decision if they're distorting their external reality in such a significant way?
RichardM1 wrote:
The paranoia,
Of the government? Sounds like 50% of America.
RichardM1 wrote:
the distrust of authority
So all teenagers are mentally ill?
RichardM1 wrote:
the inability to see the fallacy of the arguments presented to him
Stupidity and/or obstinacy are not psychiatric disorders.
RichardM1 wrote:
The ability to discount reality that does not fit his predefined notions.
Every human in the world does this.
RichardM1 wrote:
Th obsessive re-posting.
Tenacity is not a sign of a psychiatric disorder.
- F
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Fisticuffs wrote:
Mental exercises I'm not aware of - and since it is a chemical imbalance, it's unlikely that anyone will be able to change that just by thinking about it
My understanding is that studies showed that meds vs psychotherapy ended up with the same chemical changes, just the meds started quicker, but had less lasting impact when treatment stopped. IIRC it has been 15-20 years since I saw the study.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
-
RichardM1 wrote:
Yes they can. But our decisions are our own. I have been suicidal, but I have chosen not to do it. It comes down to conscious decision, and what you are willing to do to your self and others.
That's great if you have the capacity and the anchoring in reality to make such a decision. People with severe psychotic disorders quite often do not. How is it possible to call anything a psychotic person does a "conscious" decision if they're distorting their external reality in such a significant way?
RichardM1 wrote:
The paranoia,
Of the government? Sounds like 50% of America.
RichardM1 wrote:
the distrust of authority
So all teenagers are mentally ill?
RichardM1 wrote:
the inability to see the fallacy of the arguments presented to him
Stupidity and/or obstinacy are not psychiatric disorders.
RichardM1 wrote:
The ability to discount reality that does not fit his predefined notions.
Every human in the world does this.
RichardM1 wrote:
Th obsessive re-posting.
Tenacity is not a sign of a psychiatric disorder.
- F
Yes each of those symtoms is on its own no indication of mental health issues, however the combination of all of them creates a cause for concern. its like most things in life if you fail to consider everything involved you stand a big chance of missing the problem.
Smile and the world smiles withyou, laugh and they think you are a nutter
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RichardM1 wrote:
psychotherapy
True, and now that I think about it, they have some pretty good success with CBT too.
- F
Computer Based Training? or is this the old CBT(compulsary basic training) you had to pass to get to ride your bike on the road
Smile and the world smiles withyou, laugh and they think you are a nutter
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RichardM1 wrote:
Yes they can. But our decisions are our own. I have been suicidal, but I have chosen not to do it. It comes down to conscious decision, and what you are willing to do to your self and others.
That's great if you have the capacity and the anchoring in reality to make such a decision. People with severe psychotic disorders quite often do not. How is it possible to call anything a psychotic person does a "conscious" decision if they're distorting their external reality in such a significant way?
RichardM1 wrote:
The paranoia,
Of the government? Sounds like 50% of America.
RichardM1 wrote:
the distrust of authority
So all teenagers are mentally ill?
RichardM1 wrote:
the inability to see the fallacy of the arguments presented to him
Stupidity and/or obstinacy are not psychiatric disorders.
RichardM1 wrote:
The ability to discount reality that does not fit his predefined notions.
Every human in the world does this.
RichardM1 wrote:
Th obsessive re-posting.
Tenacity is not a sign of a psychiatric disorder.
- F
Fisticuffs wrote:
not a sign of a psychiatric disorder.
:rolleyes: Each and every one of those is a sign of psychiatric disorder. It all has to do with degree or severity. If you really know anything about this field, you'd know that.
Fisticuffs wrote:
So all teenagers are mentally ill?
I guess you don't have any teen age kids, every single on of them is nuts! :laugh: The raging hormones, the lack foresight and impulse control, all of it.
Fisticuffs wrote:
That's great if you have the capacity and the anchoring in reality to make such a decision. People with severe psychotic disorders quite often do not. How is it possible to call anything a psychotic person does a "conscious" decision if they're distorting their external reality in such a significant way?
Right, and that is why I semi specific as to which types were evil. Someone who can't tell a zebra from a chicken has no grip on reality, and they are not evil, just psychotic. Someone who can tell a person from a bag of crap, but will kick either one to get what they want for themselves, is evil, whatever the APA diagnoses is.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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Computer Based Training? or is this the old CBT(compulsary basic training) you had to pass to get to ride your bike on the road
Smile and the world smiles withyou, laugh and they think you are a nutter
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fat_boy wrote:
Are there any exercies, mental ones, or diet suppliments that can efect this without relying on drugs?
Pretty much any type of physical exercise is fantastic for improving mood because of the endorphins produced. Mental exercises I'm not aware of - and since it is a chemical imbalance, it's unlikely that anyone will be able to change that just by thinking about it. Dietary supplements are just dose-uncontrolled untested pharmacological agents - that's if they have any active substances in them at all.
fat_boy wrote:
I have lived sufficiently long enough to understand myself and how I tick, and how to deal with depressing thoughts and moods when they arise.
Which suggests you don't have any sort of chemical imbalance. Major depressive disorder looks like this[^]. Everyone gets a depressed mood from time to time, but it's nowhere near the severity of what these people experience.
- F
Fisticuffs wrote:
physical exercise is fantastic for improving mood because of the endorphins produced
Yes, very true and well known.
Fisticuffs wrote:
Major depressive disorder looks like this[^].
So complete lack of interest in life, total despondancy, and strongly feelling that nonexistence would be preferable. Yes. I feel like that pretty much most of the time. It is only a sense of duty and stuborness that keeps me going. And laughing at myself, and life. Which provides some respite from the utter futility of existence.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Fisticuffs wrote:
not a sign of a psychiatric disorder.
:rolleyes: Each and every one of those is a sign of psychiatric disorder. It all has to do with degree or severity. If you really know anything about this field, you'd know that.
Fisticuffs wrote:
So all teenagers are mentally ill?
I guess you don't have any teen age kids, every single on of them is nuts! :laugh: The raging hormones, the lack foresight and impulse control, all of it.
Fisticuffs wrote:
That's great if you have the capacity and the anchoring in reality to make such a decision. People with severe psychotic disorders quite often do not. How is it possible to call anything a psychotic person does a "conscious" decision if they're distorting their external reality in such a significant way?
Right, and that is why I semi specific as to which types were evil. Someone who can't tell a zebra from a chicken has no grip on reality, and they are not evil, just psychotic. Someone who can tell a person from a bag of crap, but will kick either one to get what they want for themselves, is evil, whatever the APA diagnoses is.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
If you really know anything about this field, you'd know that.
Give me a break. You're the one making armchair diagnoses and I'm willing to bet you've never even met anyone with a psychotic disorder. It's not like I'm a goddamned expert as a senior medical student spending two months seeing people who are psychotic as inpatients and outpatients but I'm not naive enough to take what people say on the internet as seriously as you seem to want to.
RichardM1 wrote:
Someone who can't tell a zebra from a chicken has no grip on reality, and they are not evil, just psychotic.
You just have so many opinions! Go publish your own DSM and make sure you include the diagnostic criteria for differentiating "evil" and "psychotic."
- F
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Yes each of those symtoms is on its own no indication of mental health issues, however the combination of all of them creates a cause for concern. its like most things in life if you fail to consider everything involved you stand a big chance of missing the problem.
Smile and the world smiles withyou, laugh and they think you are a nutter
-
Computer Based Training? or is this the old CBT(compulsary basic training) you had to pass to get to ride your bike on the road
Smile and the world smiles withyou, laugh and they think you are a nutter
-
Fisticuffs wrote:
physical exercise is fantastic for improving mood because of the endorphins produced
Yes, very true and well known.
Fisticuffs wrote:
Major depressive disorder looks like this[^].
So complete lack of interest in life, total despondancy, and strongly feelling that nonexistence would be preferable. Yes. I feel like that pretty much most of the time. It is only a sense of duty and stuborness that keeps me going. And laughing at myself, and life. Which provides some respite from the utter futility of existence.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
So complete lack of interest in life, total despondancy, and strongly feelling that nonexistence would be preferable.
Yeah, but it's less about feelings and more about if those feelings cause a fairly significant social or functional impairment to qualify for a "major depressive episode." I.e.if you don't go out, don't go to work, don't see family, don't get out of bed. It's the people who don't have strategies for dealing with bad thoughts that are really in trouble. You sound like you do have a good coping mechanism. It doesn't really sound like these feelings impair you from living your life or having interests and a job and stuff - but if you feel they are or you have any sort of oppressive thoughts about ending your life that you can't argue yourself out of and make you concerned you might act on them, then by all means go see your doc!
- F
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RichardM1 wrote:
If you really know anything about this field, you'd know that.
Give me a break. You're the one making armchair diagnoses and I'm willing to bet you've never even met anyone with a psychotic disorder. It's not like I'm a goddamned expert as a senior medical student spending two months seeing people who are psychotic as inpatients and outpatients but I'm not naive enough to take what people say on the internet as seriously as you seem to want to.
RichardM1 wrote:
Someone who can't tell a zebra from a chicken has no grip on reality, and they are not evil, just psychotic.
You just have so many opinions! Go publish your own DSM and make sure you include the diagnostic criteria for differentiating "evil" and "psychotic."
- F
Fisticuffs wrote:
You're the one making armchair diagnoses
Where did I diagnose anyone with a disorder? I told CSS to seek help. I did not say he had any particular disorder.
Fisticuffs wrote:
I'm willing to bet you've never even met anyone with a psychotic disorder.
[shrug] Bet away. I just wish you were right.
Fisticuffs wrote:
I'm not naive enough to take what people say on the internet as seriously as you seem to want to.
Really? You seem to be taking what I am saying awfully seriously. :rolleyes:
Fisticuffs wrote:
make sure you include the diagnostic criteria for differentiating "evil" and "psychotic."
I did. Psychotic has to do with not having a grip on reality. Evil is about giving no worth to other people. Even a senior medical student should understand that.
Fisticuffs wrote:
It's not like I'm a goddamned expert as a senior medical student spending two months seeing people who are psychotic as inpatients and outpatients
Your right, it's not. I am not either, even though I have spent the better part of 40 years living with and 15 years trying to understand what underlies my depression, and that of my siblings and mother, of feeling what the different meds do, their side effects, and method of mitigating them. Have you watched your druggie friends burn in and become paranoid or psychotic? Had any friends involuntarily committed? Can you reel off the side effects of zoloft, lexapro and prozac? How long after starting lexapro do you start mania? When do you stop? How much buproprion can you give someone before you have to start worrying about seizures? What can you give them to up the dosage? How many labs in the US can give you buproprion metabolite blood levels? What are your alternate meds? What side effect do SSRIs give that DRIs don't? If meds give someone orgasmic dysfunction, what helps? Do you know what fat cravings feel like? Have you ever had to deal with depression? All you have is data and a little information. If you are lucky and smart, you may have some knowledge. If you have wisdom, you will learn from patients. You are just beginning. Don't be an ass by thinking you are learned.
Opacity, the new Transparency.