Protesting for higher taxes!
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I can't speak for teachers in general, but I see just how much work my wife does and can outright say she is not overpaid. She doesn't get her evenings, she takes phone calls from parents on the weekend. Her summer vacation, she spends a lot of organising the next years work, that's certainly not paid for.
Gotta love people who are dumb enough to think teachers only work during the school day.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Yeah, because of all the professions you can enter with a degree, teaching has probably the most stress and certainly the lowest pay. These people are obviously in it for the money.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
most stress
Citation required. You must know different teachers than I do.
Are you claiming that dealing with retarded parents who assume their kid is always right, teenagers who push them around, a PC society that won't allow teachers to have any authority or punish bad behaviour, school materials that date from the 1950s and a low wage is not stressful ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Are you claiming that dealing with retarded parents who assume their kid is always right, teenagers who push them around, a PC society that won't allow teachers to have any authority or punish bad behaviour, school materials that date from the 1950s and a low wage is not stressful ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Sure like any job there is some stress. I thought you were going overboard by referring to it as "most stress." The teachers I know are locked into their jobs thanks to their unions. None of them really worry about their jobs or try very hard for that matter. Mostly babysitters with a lesson plan. There may be some real go-getters out there but my guess is they are the exception and not the rule.
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Christian Graus wrote:
most stress
Citation required. You must know different teachers than I do.
He did say the most stress for the least pay. Sure, an ER surgeon may have more stress but they sure get paid a lot more. A fighter pilot probably has a lot of stress, but they actually get paid quite a bit more than a teacher. So as far as a CBA goes, teaching has more stress per dollar or euro or pound or, etc... earned than probably most professions.
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Sure like any job there is some stress. I thought you were going overboard by referring to it as "most stress." The teachers I know are locked into their jobs thanks to their unions. None of them really worry about their jobs or try very hard for that matter. Mostly babysitters with a lesson plan. There may be some real go-getters out there but my guess is they are the exception and not the rule.
thrakazog wrote:
I thought you were going overboard by referring to it as "most stress."
Well, I think I inserted some sort of potential caveat, b/c I'm not suggesting other jobs are not stressful. The stress to wage ratio is almost certainly worst for teachers tho.
thrakazog wrote:
The teachers I know are locked into their jobs thanks to their unions. None of them really worry about their jobs or try very hard for that matter. Mostly babysitters with a lesson plan.
I guess if someone can find a way to live in the system and not care, they will get through. Question is, why is that all that American kids not rich enough for private school are worth ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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He did say the most stress for the least pay. Sure, an ER surgeon may have more stress but they sure get paid a lot more. A fighter pilot probably has a lot of stress, but they actually get paid quite a bit more than a teacher. So as far as a CBA goes, teaching has more stress per dollar or euro or pound or, etc... earned than probably most professions.
I can only speak to what I know. I know a few teachers who are making $50K+ that are far from *most* stressed. And thanks to the taxpayers they will continue to receive their full salary once they retire. I can imagine what a stress nightmare that must be. I know nobody outside public employees with that kind of benefit.
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thrakazog wrote:
I thought you were going overboard by referring to it as "most stress."
Well, I think I inserted some sort of potential caveat, b/c I'm not suggesting other jobs are not stressful. The stress to wage ratio is almost certainly worst for teachers tho.
thrakazog wrote:
The teachers I know are locked into their jobs thanks to their unions. None of them really worry about their jobs or try very hard for that matter. Mostly babysitters with a lesson plan.
I guess if someone can find a way to live in the system and not care, they will get through. Question is, why is that all that American kids not rich enough for private school are worth ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
I guess if someone can find a way to live in the system and not care, they will get through.
This leads right back to my initial complaint. It was these very people that were demanding taxes be raised "for the children."
Christian Graus wrote:
Question is, why is that all that American kids not rich enough for private school are worth ?
There are probably countless ways to improve the school system. But rubber stamping new taxes seems to be the only answer people around here are willing to try. Money fixes everything right? Throw more of that at the fire.
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I can only speak to what I know. I know a few teachers who are making $50K+ that are far from *most* stressed. And thanks to the taxpayers they will continue to receive their full salary once they retire. I can imagine what a stress nightmare that must be. I know nobody outside public employees with that kind of benefit.
So, $50k a year for what, 40 years of work and 20 of retirement ? I don't even have a degree, my work is not stressful at all, and I make three times that. So, again, a teacher has a lot more stress relative to income than most people who have a job that requires a degree. Sure, these people you know may have decided to play the game and not to care, but how is that the best outcome for the kids in their care ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
I guess if someone can find a way to live in the system and not care, they will get through.
This leads right back to my initial complaint. It was these very people that were demanding taxes be raised "for the children."
Christian Graus wrote:
Question is, why is that all that American kids not rich enough for private school are worth ?
There are probably countless ways to improve the school system. But rubber stamping new taxes seems to be the only answer people around here are willing to try. Money fixes everything right? Throw more of that at the fire.
thrakazog wrote:
There are probably countless ways to improve the school system. But rubber stamping new taxes seems to be the only answer people around here are willing to try. Money fixes everything right? Throw more of that at the fire.
Well, to be honest, given how underresources schools are, and how underpaid teachers are, it seems like an obvious move to me. I can't think of any other moves that are likely to fly. How about letting teachers punish parents for their kids bad behaviour ? How about cash fines if your kid is a consistent trouble maker ? Make the parents pay and see how they back the schools up then ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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So, $50k a year for what, 40 years of work and 20 of retirement ? I don't even have a degree, my work is not stressful at all, and I make three times that. So, again, a teacher has a lot more stress relative to income than most people who have a job that requires a degree. Sure, these people you know may have decided to play the game and not to care, but how is that the best outcome for the kids in their care ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
but how is that the best outcome for the kids in their care ?
It isn't. I'd fire their asses if I could. Back to the stress thing. You might be right, but I'm betting people that work for walmart or mcdonald's make far less and with more stress. But we're really arguing things that are pretty much impossible to measure.
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thrakazog wrote:
There are probably countless ways to improve the school system. But rubber stamping new taxes seems to be the only answer people around here are willing to try. Money fixes everything right? Throw more of that at the fire.
Well, to be honest, given how underresources schools are, and how underpaid teachers are, it seems like an obvious move to me. I can't think of any other moves that are likely to fly. How about letting teachers punish parents for their kids bad behaviour ? How about cash fines if your kid is a consistent trouble maker ? Make the parents pay and see how they back the schools up then ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
For pie in the sky ideas I'd like to see a voucher system setup. Every kid gets X dollars for education per year and where the parents choose to send them determines what school receives that money. Then you might see schools fighting for students and competing to give the best education. Might be worth a try, it'll never happen.
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Christian Graus wrote:
but how is that the best outcome for the kids in their care ?
It isn't. I'd fire their asses if I could. Back to the stress thing. You might be right, but I'm betting people that work for walmart or mcdonald's make far less and with more stress. But we're really arguing things that are pretty much impossible to measure.
My caveat on that was that teachers require a college degree. Anyone can work at Walmart.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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For pie in the sky ideas I'd like to see a voucher system setup. Every kid gets X dollars for education per year and where the parents choose to send them determines what school receives that money. Then you might see schools fighting for students and competing to give the best education. Might be worth a try, it'll never happen.
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Yes, people who are for tax increases are on the receiving end of them.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
That's a bit simplistic. Governments provide may services, most of which we've come to expect, and the money has to come from somewhere.
Steve
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Yeah, because of all the professions you can enter with a degree, teaching has probably the most stress and certainly the lowest pay. These people are obviously in it for the money.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
These people are obviously in it for the money.
Most BEd teachers I have known would be virtually unemployable elsewhere, they seem only to function in a school-like environment, first as a student, then as a teacher. The better teachers have been those with a degree in their chosen discipline, some experience of its application in business or research, plus 6 months teacher training. (The best had the above, plus military experience. :) )
Bob Emmett CSS: I don't intend to be a technical writing, I intend to be a software engineer.
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How'd you learn to read? How'd you learn math? Private school? If not, stfu. You and millions of other kids learning was the demand. If you did go to public school, you are a hypocrit of the highest order. Hell, I will be nice and point out how screwed school teachers are in little words. What does a babysitter make? Let's be a scrooge and say $3/hr. (This is way low) Now have that babysitter take care of a kid from 8am until 3pm. Now have them do it for, say, 21 kids. $63 an hour, times 7 hours. $441/day 5 days a week. How many teachers make $2205 a week? That's in the order of 114.6K a year. We are paying teachers less than babysitters. And babysitters don't teach our kids multiplication, english, history, or any of the other skills needed to succeed, they just make sure the kid doesn't manage to kill themselves while we are away. Shoot, I used a big word. multiplications means special math.
you'll get used to his ilogical rants and learn to ignore them
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Please speak from knowledge. According to The Wiki (all hail)[^], DOD is 2nd, after Social Security, which is almost 30% higher. Summed SS, Medicaid, Medicare, SCHIP, Unemployment & Welfare is over half of the budget. The problem is lies,damn lies, and statistics. The defense budget is a HUGE portion of *discretionary* spending (since we have made laws that require the funding of those programs listed above, a big part of that 50+% of the budget 'does not count'). People such as these,[^] will show the DOD budget as percent of selected portions of discretionary plus non-discretionary military related funds, and say > 50%. It is all in how you want the numbers to end up. The pie chart I showed did not include VA benefits, the GWOT, DHS or intell agencies as part of the DOD budget. I didn't set it up that way, it was literally the first one I found, and illustrates how statistics can work any way you want them to.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
The pie chart I showed did not include VA benefits, the GWOT, DHS or intell agencies as part of the DOD budget. I didn't set it up that way, it was literally the first one I found, and illustrates how statistics can work any way you want them to.
Yea, I wasn't entirely kidding about that zenu bit, I've seen defense anywhere from 10% to 40% of our budget, and no matter which of those is true, we still spend more than any other country on earth. That's pretty disturbing to me.
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For pie in the sky ideas I'd like to see a voucher system setup. Every kid gets X dollars for education per year and where the parents choose to send them determines what school receives that money. Then you might see schools fighting for students and competing to give the best education. Might be worth a try, it'll never happen.
Ugh, See, there's a problem with assuming free-market and education are going to work together. Look at the fights across the country related to education right now. From what I've seen most of them are in two groups, The ones where people don't want to pay for someone else's kids education and the ones based purely on politics. Creationism, sex ed, and a few that are nothing but fronts claiming religious persecution by Christians who are suing just to do what they already can. Vouchers are just another political tool to undermine already struggling institutions. Rather than fixing them, people will do what they always do, if they can afford it they'll go somewhere else, leaving those who can't trapped there with inferior institutions, and then they'll wonder why the area goes to shit. Or we can go the purely political bull end of the spectrum where parents feel they shouldn't have to teach their kids a thing, and most assuredly should still have complete control over anything the child is taught. Vouchers are not a solution, they're a way to dodge the problem.
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Christian Graus wrote:
but how is that the best outcome for the kids in their care ?
It isn't. I'd fire their asses if I could. Back to the stress thing. You might be right, but I'm betting people that work for walmart or mcdonald's make far less and with more stress. But we're really arguing things that are pretty much impossible to measure.
thrakazog wrote:
You might be right, but I'm betting people that work for walmart or mcdonald's make far less and with more stress.
I've heard far more stories of people managing to amuse themselves on their employers time/dime from food service(I'll never eat a taco bell again) and supermarkets than teaching. Most of what I've heard brings it down to the boss and the quantity of idiot customers. Now imagine you're locked in a room with 20+ idiot customers for an hour at a time six times a day, oh and you're expected to teach them something. It may be different in areas where people are actually interested in being educated, but it certainly was about that where I went to school.
