Bleat bleat bleat, my names Christian, the un Christian, who wants the have nots to keep on having not
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Children are a priveledge, not a right.
Everyone has the right to reproduce, but everyone has a responsibility to take care of their offspring.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
So what should happen to the offspring when a couple exercises their right to reproduce but lacks the responsibility to be able to care for their children?
I can't decide what should happen on a hypothetical situation such as that. Perhaps relatives or friends might feel the need to take the responsibility and persuade the parents to take appropriate actions. Perhaps the parents will become motivated enough to find a home and put food on the table. Maybe a mixture of the two? Charitable organizations might supplement food and housing costs as they set up a job interview for the parents. If parents are total scum, and the child is abused, the police can step in and take criminal actions against the parents, and the child would be offered to near relatives first, then suitable friends, then adoption. Charitable organizations and volunteers would run the adoptions centers and pay for schooling. Life isn't perfect, there will always be suffering because it is part of life. Eventually the sun will explode and all life on the planet will be incinerated to death.
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So you just assume "charitable organizations" will take care of everything, huh? For someone who distrusts humanity so much, you sure do put a lot of faith in their generous nature. Because see, this isn't a hypothetical situation... Sure, the "dozen kids" thing was an exaggeration, but lots of people have kids without having the ability to support them. Most of them end up on government programs (Which you would of course eliminate). There are even a fair amount of people who still consider both contraception and abortion to be "sins," so you can just imagine how fast their families grow... Do you really think that charitable donations would be enough to care for all of those kids? Because if not, well... Talking about a lot of infants dying of starvation.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
So you just assume "charitable organizations" will take care of everything, huh? For someone who distrusts humanity so much, you sure do put a lot of faith in their generous nature. Because see, this isn't a hypothetical situation... Sure, the "dozen kids" thing was an exaggeration, but lots of people have kids without having the ability to support them. Most of them end up on government programs (Which you would of course eliminate). There are even a fair amount of people who still consider both contraception and abortion to be "sins," so you can just imagine how fast their families grow... Do you really think that charitable donations would be enough to care for all of those kids? Because if not, well... Talking about a lot of infants dying of starvation.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)I don't know, this is all hypothetical. All I know is when the government has the power to command markets, redistribute wealth as welfare, and manipulate currency supplies, the economy suffers. Only the top 1% benefits from a highly regulated market and socialism. Once you give government the power to command markets and manipulate money supplies it will be taken over and used to rob and enslave the public while the top 1% in control of the system enrich themselves with vast amounts of money and power. With a free market economy and sound money, all those babies will be better off.
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I don't know, this is all hypothetical. All I know is when the government has the power to command markets, redistribute wealth as welfare, and manipulate currency supplies, the economy suffers. Only the top 1% benefits from a highly regulated market and socialism. Once you give government the power to command markets and manipulate money supplies it will be taken over and used to rob and enslave the public while the top 1% in control of the system enrich themselves with vast amounts of money and power. With a free market economy and sound money, all those babies will be better off.
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You're changing the subject. If your final answer is "I don't know", then maybe it's time to rethink your theory.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
You're changing the subject. If your final answer is "I don't know", then maybe it's time to rethink your theory.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)This is all hypothetical. All I know is when the government has the power to command markets, redistribute wealth as welfare, and manipulate currency supplies, the economy suffers. Only the top 1% benefits from a highly regulated market and socialism. Once you give government the power to command markets and manipulate money supplies it will be taken over and used to rob and enslave the public while the top 1% in control of the system enrich themselves with vast amounts of money and power. With a free market economy and sound money, all those babies will be better off.
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This is all hypothetical. All I know is when the government has the power to command markets, redistribute wealth as welfare, and manipulate currency supplies, the economy suffers. Only the top 1% benefits from a highly regulated market and socialism. Once you give government the power to command markets and manipulate money supplies it will be taken over and used to rob and enslave the public while the top 1% in control of the system enrich themselves with vast amounts of money and power. With a free market economy and sound money, all those babies will be better off.
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You said that already, and it's still not an answer... Have I triggered a buffer overflow? Is your response engine stuck in an infinite loop?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
You said that already, and it's still not an answer... Have I triggered a buffer overflow? Is your response engine stuck in an infinite loop?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
Have I triggered a buffer overflow?
Perhaps in your own logic. I always know when I win an argument when the other person starts foaming at the mouth as in your case.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
Have I triggered a buffer overflow?
Perhaps in your own logic. I always know when I win an argument when the other person starts foaming at the mouth as in your case.
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You win the argument when you disprove the other person's position. I'm still waiting for an answer.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
You win the argument when you disprove the other person's position. I'm still waiting for an answer.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)The issue is, what system benefits society the most. Only the top 1% benefits from a highly regulated market and socialism. Once you give government the power to command markets and manipulate money supplies it will be taken over and used to rob and enslave the public while the top 1% in control of the system enrich themselves with vast amounts of money and power. With a free market economy and sound money, all those babies will be better off.
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The issue is, what system benefits society the most. Only the top 1% benefits from a highly regulated market and socialism. Once you give government the power to command markets and manipulate money supplies it will be taken over and used to rob and enslave the public while the top 1% in control of the system enrich themselves with vast amounts of money and power. With a free market economy and sound money, all those babies will be better off.
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Again, you're changing the subject. The issue was defined in your original post:
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Everyone has the right to reproduce, but everyone has a responsibility to take care of their offspring.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
The issue is, what system benefits society the most. Only the top 1% benefits from a highly regulated market and socialism. Once you give government the power to command markets and manipulate money supplies it will be taken over and used to rob and enslave the public while the top 1% in control of the system enrich themselves with vast amounts of money and power. With a free market economy and sound money, all those babies will be better off.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Once you give government the power to command markets and manipulate money supplies it will be taken over and used to rob and enslave the public while the top 1% in control of the system enrich themselves with vast amounts of money and power.
Compared to the free market, in which the top 1% take their money to manipulate the market to enrich themselves with further funds and secure power. I'd take the system that pretends to stop them myself.
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Again, you're changing the subject. The issue was defined in your original post:
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Everyone has the right to reproduce, but everyone has a responsibility to take care of their offspring.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Once you give government the power to command markets and manipulate money supplies it will be taken over and used to rob and enslave the public while the top 1% in control of the system enrich themselves with vast amounts of money and power.
Compared to the free market, in which the top 1% take their money to manipulate the market to enrich themselves with further funds and secure power. I'd take the system that pretends to stop them myself.
In a free market system, competition enables the little guys to team up against the big guys in a way that is nearly impossible in a regulated market. Today the regulators regulate in favor the the big guys and that is why we have a fascistic command & control corporatacracy instead of a constitutional republic.
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Are we going to go 'round and 'round again? You admitted that you don't have a solution to the vast number of people who are NOT responsible enough to support their children and to only reproduce when they can afford to support their offspring. So are you ready to adjust your position yet?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
In a free market system, competition enables the little guys to team up against the big guys in a way that is nearly impossible in a regulated market. Today the regulators regulate in favor the the big guys and that is why we have a fascistic command & control corporatacracy instead of a constitutional republic.
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Must be a magical little world this has all happened in. Last I checked the little guys generally only made it by hitting niches the big guys wouldn't touch, and then eventually getting wiped out by someone who's doing the same thing with a bigger budget.
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Are we going to go 'round and 'round again? You admitted that you don't have a solution to the vast number of people who are NOT responsible enough to support their children and to only reproduce when they can afford to support their offspring. So are you ready to adjust your position yet?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
You admitted that you don't have a solution to the vast number of people who are NOT responsible enough to support their children and to only reproduce when they can afford to support their offspring.
The solution is having an economic environment where everyone can earn enough to have a home and put food on the table. That happens in a free market economy. Perhaps relatives or friends might feel the need to take the responsibility and persuade the parents to take appropriate actions. Perhaps the parents will become motivated enough to find a home and put food on the table. Maybe a mixture of the two? Charitable organizations might supplement food and housing costs as they set up a job interview for the parents. Or we could just forgo human rights, liberty, and prosperity and submit to megalomaniacs. Strap them down and render their reproductive organs useless, if they dare resist throw them in prison. Hell, throw them into a mobile execution van and harvest their organs right their as the body is being transported to the organ buyers. Let the government thugs take people's children and sell them on the market to rapist, only after the thugs have had their fun of course.
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Must be a magical little world this has all happened in. Last I checked the little guys generally only made it by hitting niches the big guys wouldn't touch, and then eventually getting wiped out by someone who's doing the same thing with a bigger budget.
Distind wrote:
Last I checked the little guys generally only made it by hitting niches the big guys wouldn't touch, and then eventually getting wiped out by someone who's doing the same thing with a bigger budget.
Last time I checked we haven't had a free market since 1913.
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What if I told you that your son is a neo-Nazi and secretly hates you?
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
You admitted that you don't have a solution to the vast number of people who are NOT responsible enough to support their children and to only reproduce when they can afford to support their offspring.
The solution is having an economic environment where everyone can earn enough to have a home and put food on the table. That happens in a free market economy. Perhaps relatives or friends might feel the need to take the responsibility and persuade the parents to take appropriate actions. Perhaps the parents will become motivated enough to find a home and put food on the table. Maybe a mixture of the two? Charitable organizations might supplement food and housing costs as they set up a job interview for the parents. Or we could just forgo human rights, liberty, and prosperity and submit to megalomaniacs. Strap them down and render their reproductive organs useless, if they dare resist throw them in prison. Hell, throw them into a mobile execution van and harvest their organs right their as the body is being transported to the organ buyers. Let the government thugs take people's children and sell them on the market to rapist, only after the thugs have had their fun of course.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Let the government thugs take people's children and sell them on the market to rapist, only after the thugs have had their fun of course.
And what's to stop a so-called "charitable" organization from doing the same thing? Just because something isn't part of the government, doesn't mean it can't be corrupt.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The solution is having an economic environment where everyone can earn enough to have a home and put food on the table. That happens in a free market economy.
Ok, since it looks like you can't do anything but divert to economics, let's tackle the free market. In a free market, the only form of power is wealth. Those with more money, gain more power. The more power you have, the easier it is to gain more money. Conversely, if you're unlucky enough to be born poor, you can't afford education or a healthy upbringing, so you inevitably remain poor. The stereotypical success story of someone getting a "great idea" and getting rich generally doesn't apply to the lower class, but rather to the middle class, who may have the ability to act on that idea. You like to talk about the little guys competing with the big guys... But that's not how it happens in a free market. Take Walmart, for example. Since they're so huge, they have the ability to strong-arm their suppliers for better rates, something that the little guys can't do. Since they're so huge, they benefit from efficiency of scale, further increasing their profits. Little guys just can't compete with that, and many are driven out of business when a Walmart moves into town. That's the result of a free market.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Let the government thugs take people's children and sell them on the market to rapist, only after the thugs have had their fun of course.
And what's to stop a so-called "charitable" organization from doing the same thing? Just because something isn't part of the government, doesn't mean it can't be corrupt.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The solution is having an economic environment where everyone can earn enough to have a home and put food on the table. That happens in a free market economy.
Ok, since it looks like you can't do anything but divert to economics, let's tackle the free market. In a free market, the only form of power is wealth. Those with more money, gain more power. The more power you have, the easier it is to gain more money. Conversely, if you're unlucky enough to be born poor, you can't afford education or a healthy upbringing, so you inevitably remain poor. The stereotypical success story of someone getting a "great idea" and getting rich generally doesn't apply to the lower class, but rather to the middle class, who may have the ability to act on that idea. You like to talk about the little guys competing with the big guys... But that's not how it happens in a free market. Take Walmart, for example. Since they're so huge, they have the ability to strong-arm their suppliers for better rates, something that the little guys can't do. Since they're so huge, they benefit from efficiency of scale, further increasing their profits. Little guys just can't compete with that, and many are driven out of business when a Walmart moves into town. That's the result of a free market.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
In a free market, the only form of power is wealth. Those with more money, gain more power. The more power you have, the easier it is to gain more money.
The fundamental flaw in your argument is that in a free market economy government's cant force markets to do anything, and therefor business can't buy government power. The big guys need government power to retain and expand their wealth, otherwise market forces will threaten their monopolies. Also, just because a business is big that doesn't mean its bad, it only becomes bad when it can buy government power. That is why government power should be limited, because then they can't buy government power to influence the markets to their advantage.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
The stereotypical success story of someone getting a "great idea" and getting rich generally doesn't apply to the lower class, but rather to the middle class, who may have the ability to act on that idea.
Everyone starts out poor, even if you are born into a middle class or rich family, that doesn't mean your parents are going to give you money. You work, and earn a living. However if the markets are controlled by the government, the little guy is always going to be shafted because government power will be bought and used to rob and enslave the public to enrich the controllers with cast amounts of power and wealth. If someone has a great idea, and can persuade investors that he/she can make a profit, investors will certain invest capital.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Take Walmart, for example.
Walmart wouldn't be able to exist as it does now in a free market, because they would't be receiving indirect subsidies through their employees. They don't have to pay their employees much because their employees collect some type of welfare.
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