Bleat bleat bleat, my names Christian, the un Christian, who wants the have nots to keep on having not
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Degree and IQ has nothing to do with else i'd have a large house and a holiday and lots of fast cars. Locations helps when buying homes in the UK. A flat where i live will cost around £120,000. Where i work in oxfordshire it would cost around £140,000 for a starter home. So i rent a home, a cheap home while i get monies sorted to buy a house. While i agree its blooming annoying watching people buy second homes, more cars etc ( no disrepect to them also!) but they've worked for it. As if i could I would also. just my 2 pence worth
Simon_Whale wrote:
Degree and IQ has nothing to do with
Ah, yes, so there is no correlation between intelligence and income just because you claim ot be super clever and yet you arent super rich. Has it ever occured to you that the rest of the world is different to you?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Then it's no a matter of getting a decent house, I know lots of people who live in apartments of 600 sq/feet with wife and a kid (at least) and have a decent place to live, the kid(s) get enough "garden" time at the public park a few blocks away. And that's life in most cities, big cities, around the world, where space is limited, and building there is more expensive due demand of a place to live. Living in the country doesn't give any warranty to people that they will find a decent job according to their career, some might be lucky enough to get a decent job in a small town and have a nice living. The first thing you need to start explaining before complaining is what is decent for you? a house with 3 or more bedrooms? 2 or more bathrooms? 3000 or more sq/feet? 5 acres of garden? a pool?, your "decent" can be different to my "decent" place to live... And now, after that you need to explain what is a decent life for you? a person/family that makes 120,000/year? maybe more? 5 kids running in the house? just 2? I know people who live with half of that and have a very decent life, so please, before you continue with your rant, explain what is decent for you
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
modified on Monday, April 26, 2010 12:23 PM
You are talking COntinental style appartements. Yes, they are good. In the UK though a flat will have one or two rooms, crappy sound insulation, no garden, and parking if you are lucky. And they cost £120,000. And an averagy guy ina factory might take home £1400 a month.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Agreed. Children are a priveledge, not a right. If you cannot afford to bring another mouth into the world, you shouldn't be so irresponsible to do so.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Dalek Dave wrote:
Children are a priveledge, not a right. If you cannot afford to bring another mouth into the world, you shouldn't be so irresponsible to do so.
Fuck me. You really think that people are that clever, including you? You think you are that responsible, including you? Hypocrit. Preaching pfrom a position of luck. (Yes, you were born into a wealthy country with a white skin and the genetic heredity that allows you to become an accountant. Take that away, be lower caste in India or somewhere, and then apply the same rules you espouse to yourself then.)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Brilliant work. You take an email from a single person, totally misrepresent what he said, and use that to justify your claim that you are more concerned about the plight of others than Christians are. Are you sure your real name isn't CSS?
It's time for a new signature.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
You take an email from a single person
I normally do when I refer to s single person.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
totally misrepresent what he said
Er, you didnt read the 'get your hands off my stuff' bit?
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
use that to justify your claim that you are more concerned about the plight of others than Christians are.
If a shoe fits...
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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fat_boy wrote:
Make it a right for a family to have a home suitable for a family.
If someone is a competent parent, possibly. If they had to acquire a license to have a kid, I'd probably go with it as we're taking steps to ensure the family has a decent base already. But no way am I backing some of the idiots I grew up with getting a free house because they're to stupid to use a condom. Of course, none of this deals with the fact housing prices have become absolutely obscene and for some reason people expect them to stay there. I make about as much as my parents do, just out of school. I can't afford a house around here that doesn't have bullet holes in it(no, I'm not joking, I've counted a few). And I don't have the slightest clue why, none of the places are all that nice, there's no great location to it, it just seems to be unmitigated greed. Oh, and for those who are going to use the phrase 'market forces' I'll note that the only homes that have gone off the market near me in the last two years where those that people gave up selling. Market forces seem to indicate things are far to expensive, not that anyone cares when they list their place.
I didnt say free house.
Distind wrote:
none of this deals with the fact housing prices have become absolutely obscene
Agreed, thats because you totally misunderstood what I wrote, which is entirely about how prices ar so obscene that the average giy cant provide for his familly. Oh yes, and a house should be buyable on ONE wage, so the kids can be bought up properly by one parent, and not shoved into a creche at 6 months.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Children are a priveledge, not a right. If you cannot afford to bring another mouth into the world, you shouldn't be so irresponsible to do so.
Fuck me. You really think that people are that clever, including you? You think you are that responsible, including you? Hypocrit. Preaching pfrom a position of luck. (Yes, you were born into a wealthy country with a white skin and the genetic heredity that allows you to become an accountant. Take that away, be lower caste in India or somewhere, and then apply the same rules you espouse to yourself then.)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
So you are saying that people across the world fuck and have kids because they don't know how not to? You are a patronising twat. Lucky to be born white? No, had generations of my family moved out of Africa and struggle in the tundra for 1000 generations. Born into a wealthy country? Hardly, one of the biggest debtors in the world. The Genetic Heredity that allows me to become an accountant? No, just hard work and education. Now, go back to skulking about your poverty and be thankful that you are alive, working and healthy.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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Simon_Whale wrote:
Degree and IQ has nothing to do with
Ah, yes, so there is no correlation between intelligence and income just because you claim ot be super clever and yet you arent super rich. Has it ever occured to you that the rest of the world is different to you?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
yeah the world is different for me to than to you or christian or dave. BUT if i could make sure that my kids have a better start in life then i will do it using any legal means such as by other houses or investing in money etc. Yeah i split from my ex left her the house so that my kids could have a stable place to live. Now its my turn to make a good nest egg why not! if you were given an oppurtunity to do so wouldn't you?
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You are talking COntinental style appartements. Yes, they are good. In the UK though a flat will have one or two rooms, crappy sound insulation, no garden, and parking if you are lucky. And they cost £120,000. And an averagy guy ina factory might take home £1400 a month.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
not all flats are like this my first "mortgaged" purchased flat wasn't anything like that.. it had a communal garden and off road parking.
Thanks for taking the time, now go away and grow up and return in a newer, more polite and less shouty and ignorant form. - Dalek Dave
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
So what should happen to the offspring when a couple exercises their right to reproduce but lacks the responsibility to be able to care for their children?
I can't decide what should happen on a hypothetical situation such as that. Perhaps relatives or friends might feel the need to take the responsibility and persuade the parents to take appropriate actions. Perhaps the parents will become motivated enough to find a home and put food on the table. Maybe a mixture of the two? Charitable organizations might supplement food and housing costs as they set up a job interview for the parents. If parents are total scum, and the child is abused, the police can step in and take criminal actions against the parents, and the child would be offered to near relatives first, then suitable friends, then adoption. Charitable organizations and volunteers would run the adoptions centers and pay for schooling. Life isn't perfect, there will always be suffering because it is part of life. Eventually the sun will explode and all life on the planet will be incinerated to death.
Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined (High Quality 2:14:01)[^] Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] The Truthbox[^]
So in that case lets rephrase the question Would you! exercise the right to reproduce knowing you dont have the finanical and or emotional responsibility to care for the child / children?
Thanks for taking the time, now go away and grow up and return in a newer, more polite and less shouty and ignorant form. - Dalek Dave
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Josh Gray wrote:
Generally people have a responsibility to ensure they can provide for a family before creating one. We would have liked to have children sooner but we choose to delay it so she could keep working and we could build up our savings. That's allowed her to remain a full time mum for almost two years rather than our son being stuck in day care from three months old.
Ah, so those who just work in factories and cant earn any more will have to forgo having children while houses are proced out of their reach?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
Ah, so those who just work in factories and cant earn any more will have to forgo having children while houses are proced out of their reach?
Owning a house is not a right either. If they cant afford to buy they can rent in a cheaper part of town. If they cant afford that then at least in Australia they can apply for government housing. If they dont like that they can emigrate to North Korea and have the state provide for their needs.
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Children are a priveledge, not a right. If you cannot afford to bring another mouth into the world, you shouldn't be so irresponsible to do so.
Fuck me. You really think that people are that clever, including you? You think you are that responsible, including you? Hypocrit. Preaching pfrom a position of luck. (Yes, you were born into a wealthy country with a white skin and the genetic heredity that allows you to become an accountant. Take that away, be lower caste in India or somewhere, and then apply the same rules you espouse to yourself then.)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
Whoa whoa whoa! Time out! :suss:
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not all flats are like this my first "mortgaged" purchased flat wasn't anything like that.. it had a communal garden and off road parking.
Thanks for taking the time, now go away and grow up and return in a newer, more polite and less shouty and ignorant form. - Dalek Dave
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So you are saying that people across the world fuck and have kids because they don't know how not to? You are a patronising twat. Lucky to be born white? No, had generations of my family moved out of Africa and struggle in the tundra for 1000 generations. Born into a wealthy country? Hardly, one of the biggest debtors in the world. The Genetic Heredity that allows me to become an accountant? No, just hard work and education. Now, go back to skulking about your poverty and be thankful that you are alive, working and healthy.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Dalek Dave wrote:
So you are saying that people across the world f*** and have kids because they don't know how not to?
So you really do rekon you are that in control eh? Hey, you must walk on water!
Dalek Dave wrote:
No, had generations of my family moved out of Africa and struggle in the tundra for 1000 generations
So because your ancestors came out of arica 20000 years ago you liken yourself to a lower caste Indian? BTWm your photo is awfully white looking despite your claimed ancestory.
Dalek Dave wrote:
Now, go back to skulking about your poverty and be thankful that you are alive, working and healthy.
Good try, but wrong pal. Actually I am even more proviledged than you, publlic school, good accent, wealthy background, intelligent, and sucessfull. And I am very fortunate for the accident of birth that gave me such a head start. And I fell for those who havent had the same good fortune. If you dont then you lack compassion and understanding, And as for calling me a twat, I forgive you, because you are ignorant.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Whoa whoa whoa! Time out! :suss:
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fat_boy wrote:
Ah, so those who just work in factories and cant earn any more will have to forgo having children while houses are proced out of their reach?
Owning a house is not a right either. If they cant afford to buy they can rent in a cheaper part of town. If they cant afford that then at least in Australia they can apply for government housing. If they dont like that they can emigrate to North Korea and have the state provide for their needs.
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Have you been drinking again ?
fat_boy wrote:
So much in fact that I am going to buy ANOTHER house when prices drop, which I want them to, so I can make even more nonexistant wealth based on debt and speculation, just like I did with my existing pile of stone.
Hmmm.... Well, not sure if it's any of your business but, I don't have a mortgage because I created a product and sold it, and that's how I used my money. I don't have enough money to outright buy another house, but I am young enough that I can afford to have another mortgage when prices are good. I would like to see prices drop because I think they are too high, and I do believe that affordability is in the toilet, which is one reason the prices are unsustainable. I don't think that every person has a 'right' to a home, some people will always find they can't afford to buy a house, and that's life. However, based on the fact I own two houses outright, my short term 'wealth' will obviously suffer when prices drop. It's not a case of what I want, it's a case of what I see is inevitable, and therefore, my plans for another investment property ( which are largely based on my having two kids and wanting a house per child, so I can help them enter the market ), involve waiting for the drop that I see likely.
fat_boy wrote:
And anyone who hasnt got a house f*** OFF! You cant have mine!
Unless you're one of my kids, hell yes. Why should you have mine ? I worked hard for it.
fat_boy wrote:
I might rent you my other one when I buy it, after I have converted it onto a set of rabbit hutches unfit for human habitation and scew you for exorbitant rent money because banks wont give you any HA HA!
Again, this is none of your business, however, the average rent for a house where I live is rising rapidly, 13% last year. It's now around $320 a week. The property I rent out is on 5 acres, and I've also been renovating it, so I should be able to get at least the average rent for it. I charge $240. I rent to a single mother with 2 kids, and every year I consider that I should put the rent up but I decide I don't need the money enough to cause her the hardship.
fat_boy wrote:
No. Make it a right for a family to have a home suitable for a family.
If families do not have the ability to put a roof over their head, then s
Christian Graus wrote:
I rent to a single mother with 2 kids, and every year I consider that I should put the rent up but I decide I don't need the money enough to cause her the hardship
Well that is admirable. (Sriuosly)
Christian Graus wrote:
That some people cannot afford to BUY a home is no more a problem, than that some people need to drive a used car.
And that isnt. A used car is perfectly OK. A flat with no space, no propper sound insulation, no where for kids to play, is NOT OK for a familly.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Everyone has the right to reproduce, but everyone has a responsibility to take care of their offspring.
You're making this too easy. So what should happen to the offspring when a couple exercises their right to reproduce but lacks the responsibility to be able to care for their children? What should happen when a pair of idiots get together and decide to have a dozen kids when they have next to no income? What's it going to be, CSS? Socialism or eugenics?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
What should happen when a pair of idiots get together and decide to have a dozen kids when they have next to no income?
As much as I dislike the situation you've just described, what would you rather have - people applying for and/or buying licenses to breed?
Cheers, Vikram. (Got my troika of CCCs!)
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Christian Graus wrote:
I rent to a single mother with 2 kids, and every year I consider that I should put the rent up but I decide I don't need the money enough to cause her the hardship
Well that is admirable. (Sriuosly)
Christian Graus wrote:
That some people cannot afford to BUY a home is no more a problem, than that some people need to drive a used car.
And that isnt. A used car is perfectly OK. A flat with no space, no propper sound insulation, no where for kids to play, is NOT OK for a familly.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
A used car is perfectly OK. A flat with no space, no propper sound insulation, no where for kids to play, is NOT OK for a familly.
See, I think someone else above hit the core of the issue. I don't know what life is like where you live. However, here, the government offers low income earners rent assistance, and there are plenty of decent homes for rent, with backyards. Only young people starting out, or old people who don't want to maintain land, live in flats, typically. Some public housing is flats, and some families who are totally reliant on welfare live in them, in big cities. Most people who rent, live in houses. Hell, uni students will share a house, typically a very large but run down one with a decent back yard, because such things are not at a premium here. I've never meant to say that the poor should be forced to live in tiny units, or that their kids should rely on public parks for somewhere to play. I think there's a disconnect between the places we live that cause you to interpret my words in ways that I never meant. I just meant, so long as people have somewhere decent to live, and assistance exists to make that possible for them if they are on a low wage, then I see no reason why they have a right to OWN a home, as opposed to having a decent roof over their heads for all of their lives, but at the end not having any equity because they didn't ever have the money, or the determination, to make that happen.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
What should happen when a pair of idiots get together and decide to have a dozen kids when they have next to no income?
As much as I dislike the situation you've just described, what would you rather have - people applying for and/or buying licenses to breed?
Cheers, Vikram. (Got my troika of CCCs!)
Hard to say... From an economic perspective, that seems to be the best solution... But from a moral perspective, what we have now (Welfare system) seems to be the most reasonable. From an evolutionary standpoint, I think a licensing system is more beneficial to us as a species, since if it was properly implemented (That's of course a HUGE "if"), it could greatly affect our development as a species... Those who aren't hardworking and responsible (Or related to someone who is) will find it more difficult to pass on their genes. Then again, knowing how power corrupts, this could just as easily be warped in a completely different direction, which would come close to validating CSS's paranoia while invoking Godwin's Law at the same time. It's a question of which society values more, and I don't think it's a decision I'd be qualified to make.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Have you been drinking again ?
fat_boy wrote:
So much in fact that I am going to buy ANOTHER house when prices drop, which I want them to, so I can make even more nonexistant wealth based on debt and speculation, just like I did with my existing pile of stone.
Hmmm.... Well, not sure if it's any of your business but, I don't have a mortgage because I created a product and sold it, and that's how I used my money. I don't have enough money to outright buy another house, but I am young enough that I can afford to have another mortgage when prices are good. I would like to see prices drop because I think they are too high, and I do believe that affordability is in the toilet, which is one reason the prices are unsustainable. I don't think that every person has a 'right' to a home, some people will always find they can't afford to buy a house, and that's life. However, based on the fact I own two houses outright, my short term 'wealth' will obviously suffer when prices drop. It's not a case of what I want, it's a case of what I see is inevitable, and therefore, my plans for another investment property ( which are largely based on my having two kids and wanting a house per child, so I can help them enter the market ), involve waiting for the drop that I see likely.
fat_boy wrote:
And anyone who hasnt got a house f*** OFF! You cant have mine!
Unless you're one of my kids, hell yes. Why should you have mine ? I worked hard for it.
fat_boy wrote:
I might rent you my other one when I buy it, after I have converted it onto a set of rabbit hutches unfit for human habitation and scew you for exorbitant rent money because banks wont give you any HA HA!
Again, this is none of your business, however, the average rent for a house where I live is rising rapidly, 13% last year. It's now around $320 a week. The property I rent out is on 5 acres, and I've also been renovating it, so I should be able to get at least the average rent for it. I charge $240. I rent to a single mother with 2 kids, and every year I consider that I should put the rent up but I decide I don't need the money enough to cause her the hardship.
fat_boy wrote:
No. Make it a right for a family to have a home suitable for a family.
If families do not have the ability to put a roof over their head, then s