CG: deliver proof of god existence please?
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harold aptroot wrote:
We were asked to stop, though.
I did not see that, where was it? I try and be compliant on those kinds of things. And yeah, I pretty much argue till everyone else stops. :laugh:
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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RichardM1 wrote:
Nor is the absence of God verifiable. So you should be an agnostic as well, and it is apparent that you are an atheist.
Of course it isn't, the whole issue is unresolvable that way, but the onus lies with the people who introduced the idea of a god, not with the people they're trying to convince. That is why it's relevant that god was not invented until "later". If he had been there from the beginning, the atheists would have to disprove his existence, and probably have a hard time. You may hide your god in higher dimensions, and give yet an other "we just don't understand it" argument (in your other post) but that just extends a long history of "hiding god". First he would be up in the sky, but people went to take a look and he wasn't there so he had to be somewhere else, etc, and now in higher dimensions that we can not see? Do you believe in the invisible pink unicorn? Stories about her are usually internally consistent as well as consistent with reality. I guess we'd have to be agnostic about her as well then.
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What makes you think God was more or less offended by them? Maybe they had done what God planned for them, but not the survivor. Maybe he was just slower than the rest. On a larger time line, all people die. The survivors are not saved, they just die later.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
Maybe they had done what God planned for them
I could not live my live with such a fatalistic outlook as that. Are you saying that a baby who dies aged 2 days has "done what God planned for them"? If God existed and truly loved humans he would never put the parents through such a horrific experience, that would be the action of a being that hated humans.
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RichardM1 wrote:
Maybe they had done what God planned for them
I could not live my live with such a fatalistic outlook as that. Are you saying that a baby who dies aged 2 days has "done what God planned for them"? If God existed and truly loved humans he would never put the parents through such a horrific experience, that would be the action of a being that hated humans.
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RichardM1 wrote:
Maybe they had done what God planned for them
I could not live my live with such a fatalistic outlook as that. Are you saying that a baby who dies aged 2 days has "done what God planned for them"? If God existed and truly loved humans he would never put the parents through such a horrific experience, that would be the action of a being that hated humans.
In that short a space of time, a baby has the chance to touch a parents life for ever. The memories and smells remain, long after all others fade - the wrinkles on feet so small that they should be smooth, hands that grasp instinctively. The sweet smell that can never be improved on. These are the joys and, while you never get over the pain, you treasure the moments you had - the love that wells up. A child, however briefly held, can elevate the most mundane of people up to levels of grace and this is something to be treasured.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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I was told we were asked to kill this thread. I'm willing to keep discussing this with you, but I don't know an appropriate venue. [must ... control ... urge ... to ... get ... last ... word] :laugh:
Opacity, the new Transparency.
I happily give you the last word! :beer:
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I happily give you the last word! :beer:
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In that short a space of time, a baby has the chance to touch a parents life for ever. The memories and smells remain, long after all others fade - the wrinkles on feet so small that they should be smooth, hands that grasp instinctively. The sweet smell that can never be improved on. These are the joys and, while you never get over the pain, you treasure the moments you had - the love that wells up. A child, however briefly held, can elevate the most mundane of people up to levels of grace and this is something to be treasured.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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I make some posts with all cynicism an attitude swept to one side.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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Nice blocking move, but I'm just helping you with your simplistic argument. So, do you think the presence of evil means there is no good?
Opacity, the new Transparency.
RichardM1 wrote:
I'm just helping you with your simplistic argument
Yes, helping me reinforce it.
RichardM1 wrote:
So, do you think the presence of evil means there is no good?
Allowing thousands of innocent children to be killed by the Nazis is a sure sign that 'god' is a cunt (if he exists, and if he is, he isnt much of a god.),
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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RichardM1 wrote:
I'm just helping you with your simplistic argument
Yes, helping me reinforce it.
RichardM1 wrote:
So, do you think the presence of evil means there is no good?
Allowing thousands of innocent children to be killed by the Nazis is a sure sign that 'god' is a cunt (if he exists, and if he is, he isnt much of a god.),
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
RichardM1 wrote:
So, do you think the presence of evil means there is no good?
Allowing thousands of innocent children to be killed by the Nazis is a sure sign that 'god' is a c*** (if he exists, and if he is, he isnt much of a god.),
Well, now you are changing your very effective simplistic argument. But how you feel about God wasn't either your argument, or the question. I've asked twice, third times a charm? Your argument implies that evil in the universe means there can be no good. Do you believe your own simplistic argument that bad means there is no good?
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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fat_boy wrote:
RichardM1 wrote:
So, do you think the presence of evil means there is no good?
Allowing thousands of innocent children to be killed by the Nazis is a sure sign that 'god' is a c*** (if he exists, and if he is, he isnt much of a god.),
Well, now you are changing your very effective simplistic argument. But how you feel about God wasn't either your argument, or the question. I've asked twice, third times a charm? Your argument implies that evil in the universe means there can be no good. Do you believe your own simplistic argument that bad means there is no good?
Opacity, the new Transparency.
No, I havent changed it at all. The logic is simple. God, as a benevolent being does not exist. Some twisted bastard might though, but he's not a god. He's a twisted bastard. ANd by the way to finally answer your facile question, whch I had been hoping to avoid: "good and evil are not mutually exclusive".
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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No, I havent changed it at all. The logic is simple. God, as a benevolent being does not exist. Some twisted bastard might though, but he's not a god. He's a twisted bastard. ANd by the way to finally answer your facile question, whch I had been hoping to avoid: "good and evil are not mutually exclusive".
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
No, I havent changed it at all. The logic is simple. God, as a benevolent being does not exist.
So,now we go from 'no god' to 'no benevolent god'. That is a change. You are OK with Christian God or Muslim Allah existing, since you have never accused them of being benevolent? The argument is more than simple, as you said,it is simplistic.
fat_boy wrote:
ANd by the way to finally answer your facile question, whch I had been hoping to avoid: "good and evil are not mutually exclusive".
So, the existence of freewill,and the capability to use it, which produces evil,means there can not be a benevolent god,even though it doesn't preclude good from existing?
Opacity, the new Transparency.