Proving the unprovable
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Following on (sort of) from the thread below it strikes me that the argument about the existence or otherwise of a god is pointless. I can't prove the non-existence and you (whomever you might be) can't prove the reverse. You believe what you want to believe: as an atheist I promise not to try and stop you believing what you want so long as it makes you happy. On the other hand can you stop knocking on my door and bothering me with all of your god stuff. You're not going to convert me, ever. Really, you're not. And this nonsense that, somehow, because I'm an atheist, I can't have morals. What utter rubbish: I'm probably far more moral and tolerant than most of the moral majority. I just don't go around shoving it down people's throats and judging and condemning anyone simply because their chosen (and personal) lifestyle choices don't precisely match mine. So, can we stop all the god arguments (And I'm as culpable here as anyone). They go nowhere and settle nothing - it's just the same, tired old arguments every few weeks. Boring. I thank you: screaming rant over - have a jolly nice day.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
digital man wrote:
Following on (sort of) from the thread below it strikes me that the argument about the existence or otherwise of a god is pointless. I can't prove the non-existence and you (whomever you might be) can't prove the reverse.
True... As the saying goes... Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. On the other hand, just because something can't be disproved, doesn't mean it deserves equal credibility. For example, I could challenge you to prove that I DON'T have supernatural powers over time and space, which I've so far decided not to use. You can't prove or disprove it, but I think it's pretty sensible to hold the opinion that it's probably a complete fabrication.
digital man wrote:
And this nonsense that, somehow, because I'm an atheist, I can't have morals. What utter rubbish: I'm probably far more moral and tolerant than most of the moral majority.
I've heard that argument before, but not often. Maybe I just surround myself with more intelligent people (Both religious and non-religious), but I've never really had a problem with people looking down at me for being atheist.
digital man wrote:
I just don't go around shoving it down people's throats and judging and condemning anyone simply because their chosen (and personal) lifestyle choices don't precisely match mine.
This is the only part of religion that bugs me. The idiots trying to stop me on the sidewalk and asking if I've found jesus, or if I've read dianetics, or if I've considered blah blah blah... People are free to believe whatever they want, but as soon as they try to convert me, they (Meaning those particular people, not the entire religion) become the enemy, and I have no qualms against giving them a mental/verbal (Not physical) thrashing. The sad part is that most of the people who try to convert me on the street know less about their own religion than I do... And I have a whole arsenal of good lines to spout when they try their little speeches on me... They should know when they're outgunned :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
digital man wrote:
Following on (sort of) from the thread below it strikes me that the argument about the existence or otherwise of a god is pointless. I can't prove the non-existence and you (whomever you might be) can't prove the reverse.
True... As the saying goes... Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. On the other hand, just because something can't be disproved, doesn't mean it deserves equal credibility. For example, I could challenge you to prove that I DON'T have supernatural powers over time and space, which I've so far decided not to use. You can't prove or disprove it, but I think it's pretty sensible to hold the opinion that it's probably a complete fabrication.
digital man wrote:
And this nonsense that, somehow, because I'm an atheist, I can't have morals. What utter rubbish: I'm probably far more moral and tolerant than most of the moral majority.
I've heard that argument before, but not often. Maybe I just surround myself with more intelligent people (Both religious and non-religious), but I've never really had a problem with people looking down at me for being atheist.
digital man wrote:
I just don't go around shoving it down people's throats and judging and condemning anyone simply because their chosen (and personal) lifestyle choices don't precisely match mine.
This is the only part of religion that bugs me. The idiots trying to stop me on the sidewalk and asking if I've found jesus, or if I've read dianetics, or if I've considered blah blah blah... People are free to believe whatever they want, but as soon as they try to convert me, they (Meaning those particular people, not the entire religion) become the enemy, and I have no qualms against giving them a mental/verbal (Not physical) thrashing. The sad part is that most of the people who try to convert me on the street know less about their own religion than I do... And I have a whole arsenal of good lines to spout when they try their little speeches on me... They should know when they're outgunned :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
The sad part is that most of the people who try to convert me on the street know less about their own religion than I do... And I have a whole arsenal of good lines to spout when they try their little speeches on me... They should know when they're outgunned
"Know Thine Enemy", admirable advice!
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
The sad part is that most of the people who try to convert me on the street know less about their own religion than I do... And I have a whole arsenal of good lines to spout when they try their little speeches on me... They should know when they're outgunned
"Know Thine Enemy", admirable advice!
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
One of my newest lines, which I haven't gotten a chance to use yet... "Man, I'm a science fiction writer... I can invent better deities than you in my sleep!"
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
digital man wrote:
Following on (sort of) from the thread below it strikes me that the argument about the existence or otherwise of a god is pointless. I can't prove the non-existence and you (whomever you might be) can't prove the reverse.
True... As the saying goes... Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. On the other hand, just because something can't be disproved, doesn't mean it deserves equal credibility. For example, I could challenge you to prove that I DON'T have supernatural powers over time and space, which I've so far decided not to use. You can't prove or disprove it, but I think it's pretty sensible to hold the opinion that it's probably a complete fabrication.
digital man wrote:
And this nonsense that, somehow, because I'm an atheist, I can't have morals. What utter rubbish: I'm probably far more moral and tolerant than most of the moral majority.
I've heard that argument before, but not often. Maybe I just surround myself with more intelligent people (Both religious and non-religious), but I've never really had a problem with people looking down at me for being atheist.
digital man wrote:
I just don't go around shoving it down people's throats and judging and condemning anyone simply because their chosen (and personal) lifestyle choices don't precisely match mine.
This is the only part of religion that bugs me. The idiots trying to stop me on the sidewalk and asking if I've found jesus, or if I've read dianetics, or if I've considered blah blah blah... People are free to believe whatever they want, but as soon as they try to convert me, they (Meaning those particular people, not the entire religion) become the enemy, and I have no qualms against giving them a mental/verbal (Not physical) thrashing. The sad part is that most of the people who try to convert me on the street know less about their own religion than I do... And I have a whole arsenal of good lines to spout when they try their little speeches on me... They should know when they're outgunned :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
True... As the saying goes... Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. On the other hand, just because something can't be disproved, doesn't mean it deserves equal credibility. For example, I could challenge you to prove that I DON'T have supernatural powers over time and space, which I've so far decided not to use. You can't prove or disprove it, but I think it's pretty sensible to hold the opinion that it's probably a complete fabrication.
I want to agree with you but I can't. Whether or not an argument is credible is neither her nor there. The fact is I can't disprove your assertion. I do agree, however, that I would consider you to be a raving lunatic requiring extensive treatment. I might, therefore, dismiss you as a loony but I can't, absolutely, disprove your claim.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
I've heard that argument before, but not often. Maybe I just surround myself with more intelligent people (Both religious and non-religious), but I've never really had a problem with people looking down at me for being atheist.
Every committed religious person I've had personal contact with (intelligent or otherwise and some of them on these forums) appears to be of the opinion that simply by dint of their beliefs they are, somehow, morally superior.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
They should know when they're outgunned
Same thought as DD below.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
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One of my newest lines, which I haven't gotten a chance to use yet... "Man, I'm a science fiction writer... I can invent better deities than you in my sleep!"
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Ian Shlasko wrote:
True... As the saying goes... Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. On the other hand, just because something can't be disproved, doesn't mean it deserves equal credibility. For example, I could challenge you to prove that I DON'T have supernatural powers over time and space, which I've so far decided not to use. You can't prove or disprove it, but I think it's pretty sensible to hold the opinion that it's probably a complete fabrication.
I want to agree with you but I can't. Whether or not an argument is credible is neither her nor there. The fact is I can't disprove your assertion. I do agree, however, that I would consider you to be a raving lunatic requiring extensive treatment. I might, therefore, dismiss you as a loony but I can't, absolutely, disprove your claim.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
I've heard that argument before, but not often. Maybe I just surround myself with more intelligent people (Both religious and non-religious), but I've never really had a problem with people looking down at me for being atheist.
Every committed religious person I've had personal contact with (intelligent or otherwise and some of them on these forums) appears to be of the opinion that simply by dint of their beliefs they are, somehow, morally superior.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
They should know when they're outgunned
Same thought as DD below.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
digital man wrote:
I want to agree with you but I can't. Whether or not an argument is credible is neither her nor there. The fact is I can't disprove your assertion. I do agree, however, that I would consider you to be a raving lunatic requiring extensive treatment. I might, therefore, dismiss you as a loony but I can't, absolutely, disprove your claim.
That's exactly my point... You can't disprove it, but you'd probably think I was out of my mind. :)
digital man wrote:
Every committed religious person I've had personal contact with (intelligent or otherwise and some of them on these forums) appears to be of the opinion that simply by dint of their beliefs they are, somehow, morally superior.
Guess I'm just more picky on who I interact with... Though I joke about all kinds of odd things, I'm actually a very moral person, so it's kind of difficult for the religious folks to go high-and-mighty on me.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Q was awesome... Ok, so maybe some of those episodes went a little overboard... But he was a great character. Good actor, too... What was his name... Grr... Have to look it up... John de Lancie
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Q was awesome... Ok, so maybe some of those episodes went a little overboard... But he was a great character. Good actor, too... What was his name... Grr... Have to look it up... John de Lancie
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Hammed it up with the best of them! Can you imagine John de Lancie, Alan Rickman and John Lithgow on the same cast list? More ham than a pig farm.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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digital man wrote:
I want to agree with you but I can't. Whether or not an argument is credible is neither her nor there. The fact is I can't disprove your assertion. I do agree, however, that I would consider you to be a raving lunatic requiring extensive treatment. I might, therefore, dismiss you as a loony but I can't, absolutely, disprove your claim.
That's exactly my point... You can't disprove it, but you'd probably think I was out of my mind. :)
digital man wrote:
Every committed religious person I've had personal contact with (intelligent or otherwise and some of them on these forums) appears to be of the opinion that simply by dint of their beliefs they are, somehow, morally superior.
Guess I'm just more picky on who I interact with... Though I joke about all kinds of odd things, I'm actually a very moral person, so it's kind of difficult for the religious folks to go high-and-mighty on me.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
'm actually a very moral person, so it's kind of difficult for the religious folks to go high-and-mighty on me.
I'm sure you are but I've found that it's an assumption on their part rather an experienced based observation.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
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Q was awesome... Ok, so maybe some of those episodes went a little overboard... But he was a great character. Good actor, too... What was his name... Grr... Have to look it up... John de Lancie
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Ian Shlasko wrote:
'm actually a very moral person, so it's kind of difficult for the religious folks to go high-and-mighty on me.
I'm sure you are but I've found that it's an assumption on their part rather an experienced based observation.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
Heh, if they've assumed it, they haven't verbalized it. Not to me, anyway.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Hammed it up with the best of them! Can you imagine John de Lancie, Alan Rickman and John Lithgow on the same cast list? More ham than a pig farm.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Oh, that would be hilarious! They could all play different member of the Q continuum... But we'd need a new Star Trek for them to appear on... "Star Trek Continuum: All Q, All the time!"
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Heh, if they've assumed it, they haven't verbalized it. Not to me, anyway.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)You are a lucky man, indeed. I've had it said to me a few times. Perhaps it's just me...
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
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Oh, that would be hilarious! They could all play different member of the Q continuum... But we'd need a new Star Trek for them to appear on... "Star Trek Continuum: All Q, All the time!"
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
You are a lucky man, indeed. I've had it said to me a few times. Perhaps it's just me...
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
-
One of my newest lines, which I haven't gotten a chance to use yet... "Man, I'm a science fiction writer... I can invent better deities than you in my sleep!"
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
"Man, I'm a science fiction writer... I can invent better deities than you in my sleep!"
At least one Sci-fi writer did...
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
"Man, I'm a science fiction writer... I can invent better deities than you in my sleep!"
At least one Sci-fi writer did...
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
Heh... Indeed... I've made a solemn vow to myself... If anyone ever tries to turn my universe into a religion, I will do my best to squash that notion like a cockroach. "I'm honored that you all love my novels so much, but... you do realize that you're worshiping a figment of my imagination, right?" That'd be fun.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
It happened to me too, I just said "Spanish Inquisition" and left. That was before everyone knew about the secret alliance between the Catholic church and Pædobear.
That got them. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
True... As the saying goes... Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. On the other hand, just because something can't be disproved, doesn't mean it deserves equal credibility. For example, I could challenge you to prove that I DON'T have supernatural powers over time and space, which I've so far decided not to use. You can't prove or disprove it, but I think it's pretty sensible to hold the opinion that it's probably a complete fabrication.
I want to agree with you but I can't. Whether or not an argument is credible is neither her nor there. The fact is I can't disprove your assertion. I do agree, however, that I would consider you to be a raving lunatic requiring extensive treatment. I might, therefore, dismiss you as a loony but I can't, absolutely, disprove your claim.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
I've heard that argument before, but not often. Maybe I just surround myself with more intelligent people (Both religious and non-religious), but I've never really had a problem with people looking down at me for being atheist.
Every committed religious person I've had personal contact with (intelligent or otherwise and some of them on these forums) appears to be of the opinion that simply by dint of their beliefs they are, somehow, morally superior.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
They should know when they're outgunned
Same thought as DD below.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
digital man wrote:
Every committed religious person I've had personal contact with (intelligent or otherwise and some of them on these forums) appears to be of the opinion that simply by dint of their beliefs they are, somehow, morally superior.
Maybe you are projecting your own feeling of moral inferiority back onto them? :laugh: Personally, I know I am no better than anyone else. Often worse, as I do those thing I know are wrong. But that does not mean I don't enjoy an argument about it.
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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Following on (sort of) from the thread below it strikes me that the argument about the existence or otherwise of a god is pointless. I can't prove the non-existence and you (whomever you might be) can't prove the reverse. You believe what you want to believe: as an atheist I promise not to try and stop you believing what you want so long as it makes you happy. On the other hand can you stop knocking on my door and bothering me with all of your god stuff. You're not going to convert me, ever. Really, you're not. And this nonsense that, somehow, because I'm an atheist, I can't have morals. What utter rubbish: I'm probably far more moral and tolerant than most of the moral majority. I just don't go around shoving it down people's throats and judging and condemning anyone simply because their chosen (and personal) lifestyle choices don't precisely match mine. So, can we stop all the god arguments (And I'm as culpable here as anyone). They go nowhere and settle nothing - it's just the same, tired old arguments every few weeks. Boring. I thank you: screaming rant over - have a jolly nice day.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
digital man wrote:
So, can we stop all the god arguments (And I'm as culpable here as anyone). They go nowhere and settle nothing - it's just the same, tired old arguments every few weeks. Boring.
I guess I haven't been paying attention. That was the first one I'd seen in a long time. But I think I agree. And that really wasn't a generic thread, methinks, so much as an attack on Christian's particular belief set. While I don't agree with him (Christian, that is), I thought the whole tone was unnecessarily confrontational, starting with the title of the topic. (But he's a grown boy - if he thought he was being unfairly treated I expect he'd say so. )
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