Windows 7 Install saga
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Dan Neely wrote:
but the ram problem smells like a bad DIMM; which should be checked with memtest86
Thought of it myself. Checked it. No issues.
Dan Neely wrote:
As far as the hard drives go, because windows installers only ask which HD to use if it's not 'obvious' to the installer it's generally best to disconnect everything except the OS drive if possible.
So, in order to reinstall Windows, you have to open the case, disconnect all but one hard drives? Come on, you can't say that's acceptable. Even worse... When I tried to install with both HDDs, if I select the second drive as target, Weven still created its 100MB system partition on the first one. That's just plain annoying.
We are using Linux daily to UP our productivity - so UP yours!
rastaVnuce wrote:
t, Weven still created its 100MB system partition on the first one. That's just plain annoying.
That won't happen if the first disk is partitioned BEFORE the install. If it is not partitioned disk0 becomes the default boot disk, hence the 100MB partition containing the boot loader and system recovery tools.
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How on earth did you figure out that the hardware's crap? Weven being unable to handle something puts the hardware in that category? I've installed a whole bunch of Linux and BSD distros on it, Windows XP and Vista and even tried out Hackintosh for the kicks of it... All worked just fine. Crappy hardware or crappy Windows? You make the call...
We are using Linux daily to UP our productivity - so UP yours!
rastaVnuce wrote:
How on earth did you figure out that the hardware's crap?
If you have to remove it for the install to go to completion, that certainly suggests it's not entirely healthy.
rastaVnuce wrote:
I've installed a whole bunch of Linux and BSD distros on it, Windows XP and Vista and even tried out Hackintosh for the kicks of it... All worked just fine.
Of course there's absolutely no possibility that the hardware has gone south since you did those installs...
rastaVnuce wrote:
Crappy hardware or crappy Windows? You make the call...
I did.
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If you'll read the OP again, you'll note that it didn't "refuse to install without notice". Instead it failed most of the way through, likely due to a flaw in the hardware...bad disk blocks and faulty RAM (or bad power supplies) are not the fault of the software, nor can the software be expected to survive them.
Software is not supposed to survive bad power supplies, bad motherboards, bad RAM; however those where probably fine, as an earlier Windows version had been running on them. Software is supposed to survive most any other problem. For instance, if and when a disk write fails, it should be clearly reported, retried, and an alternative or a suggestion offered. Now is the time for this industry, and its customers, to become a little mature. :)
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if(Processor.CannotPerformJump) goto InformUser; // TODO: Why doesn't this work?
:rolleyes:
Not reporting problems is worse than using goto. :laugh:
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Software is not supposed to survive bad power supplies, bad motherboards, bad RAM; however those where probably fine, as an earlier Windows version had been running on them. Software is supposed to survive most any other problem. For instance, if and when a disk write fails, it should be clearly reported, retried, and an alternative or a suggestion offered. Now is the time for this industry, and its customers, to become a little mature. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
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"Now is the time..." A little late, wouldn't you say.
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"Now is the time..." A little late, wouldn't you say.
Yes, some 20 years late, actually. However it should be abundantly clear they have run out of excuses. All the required resources are present, all that is lacking is the will to be professional. :)
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I have installed W7 on systems with multiple hard drives with no issue at all. (they were,of course all healthy , relatively new drives...).
rastaVnuce wrote:
Thought of it myself. Checked it. No issues.
But yet you had to remove it to install? I'd find a new way to check my memory, yours obviously didn't work.
Rob Graham wrote:
But yet you had to remove it to install? I'd find a new way to check my memory, yours obviously didn't work.
I did a memcheck from Ubuntu's live CD. I think it's a reliable enough test. What would you suggest?
We are using Linux daily to UP our productivity - so UP yours!
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rastaVnuce wrote:
t, Weven still created its 100MB system partition on the first one. That's just plain annoying.
That won't happen if the first disk is partitioned BEFORE the install. If it is not partitioned disk0 becomes the default boot disk, hence the 100MB partition containing the boot loader and system recovery tools.
And that's acceptable behavior?
We are using Linux daily to UP our productivity - so UP yours!
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rastaVnuce wrote:
How on earth did you figure out that the hardware's crap?
If you have to remove it for the install to go to completion, that certainly suggests it's not entirely healthy.
rastaVnuce wrote:
I've installed a whole bunch of Linux and BSD distros on it, Windows XP and Vista and even tried out Hackintosh for the kicks of it... All worked just fine.
Of course there's absolutely no possibility that the hardware has gone south since you did those installs...
rastaVnuce wrote:
Crappy hardware or crappy Windows? You make the call...
I did.
Rob Graham wrote:
If you have to remove it for the install to go to completion, that certainly suggests it's not entirely healthy.
The same can be said for the W7. If i remove the W7 from the equation everything works perfectly.
Rob Graham wrote:
I did.
Yeah, I noticed that you did... regardless of the facts.
We are using Linux daily to UP our productivity - so UP yours!
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Rob Graham wrote:
But yet you had to remove it to install? I'd find a new way to check my memory, yours obviously didn't work.
I did a memcheck from Ubuntu's live CD. I think it's a reliable enough test. What would you suggest?
We are using Linux daily to UP our productivity - so UP yours!
For the record, I've had more than one Linux distro bomb, not have audio, not have up-to-date video drivers, etc., but that doesn't mean I tear Linux a strip. I've fought for three days trying to get a beefed up box running on a certain PAID vendor's distro. But none of that means I write off Linux. Because you've had a bad experience on one machine I wouldn't assume "Win 7 is crap". I've upgraded 6 PCs to Win 7 now with no issue. When I do hear of the old case where someone does have a problem, sure enough they've got a hacked copy off of some torrent. Win 7 has been the fastest adopted OS in history. If you want a parallel, that's more than twice the numbers of all iPhone sold in the last four years. If it were as bad as you were making it out to be, you'd think there'd be a little more press around it. Cheers.
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For the record, I've had more than one Linux distro bomb, not have audio, not have up-to-date video drivers, etc., but that doesn't mean I tear Linux a strip. I've fought for three days trying to get a beefed up box running on a certain PAID vendor's distro. But none of that means I write off Linux. Because you've had a bad experience on one machine I wouldn't assume "Win 7 is crap". I've upgraded 6 PCs to Win 7 now with no issue. When I do hear of the old case where someone does have a problem, sure enough they've got a hacked copy off of some torrent. Win 7 has been the fastest adopted OS in history. If you want a parallel, that's more than twice the numbers of all iPhone sold in the last four years. If it were as bad as you were making it out to be, you'd think there'd be a little more press around it. Cheers.
TheyCallMeMrJames wrote:
Because you've had a bad experience on one machine I wouldn't assume "Win 7 is crap"
Totally agree. Win is crap because of a lot of other things.
TheyCallMeMrJames wrote:
sure enough they've got a hacked copy off of some torrent.
Isn't that illegal?
TheyCallMeMrJames wrote:
Win 7 has been the fastest adopted OS in history
Well, of course it is. Anyone who's been using Vista and those who were smart enough not to needed an update and needed it bad. The first one's were using an OS that crippled their machines, the other ones were using an OS from a different era.
TheyCallMeMrJames wrote:
If it were as bad as you were making it out to be
I just ranted about one single incident. Didn't write Win off because of that. I have written Win off years ago for different reasons. Although, I was amazed at how much more incidents like this are reported throughout the net.
We are using Linux daily to UP our productivity - so UP yours!
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TheyCallMeMrJames wrote:
Because you've had a bad experience on one machine I wouldn't assume "Win 7 is crap"
Totally agree. Win is crap because of a lot of other things.
TheyCallMeMrJames wrote:
sure enough they've got a hacked copy off of some torrent.
Isn't that illegal?
TheyCallMeMrJames wrote:
Win 7 has been the fastest adopted OS in history
Well, of course it is. Anyone who's been using Vista and those who were smart enough not to needed an update and needed it bad. The first one's were using an OS that crippled their machines, the other ones were using an OS from a different era.
TheyCallMeMrJames wrote:
If it were as bad as you were making it out to be
I just ranted about one single incident. Didn't write Win off because of that. I have written Win off years ago for different reasons. Although, I was amazed at how much more incidents like this are reported throughout the net.
We are using Linux daily to UP our productivity - so UP yours!
Actually, while Win 7 moved towards 8% of the market share, Win XP and Vista combined dropped less than 2%. You Linux folks have an interesting method for calculating half ;P Where I come from, it's usually more than 25%.
rastaVnuce wrote:
I have written Win off years ago for different reasons.
Wow, you were using Win 7 years ago? Must've been a pre-alpha release? :wtf: That's like writing off Ubuntu because you had a bad Red Hat install in 2001.
rastaVnuce wrote:
Win is crap because of a lot of other things
lol...so is every OS.
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Yes, some 20 years late, actually. However it should be abundantly clear they have run out of excuses. All the required resources are present, all that is lacking is the will to be professional. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
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Software such as a modern (read: bloated) OS has long passed the point where its complexity means that full testing of the OS is no longer possible. We could probably make DOS perfect, give or take hardware issues that can corrupt the code itself, but then we have a perfect, pristine OS that, well, doesn't do a lot. Software development methologies have come a long, long way since the punch card days, and we have better tools, better languages, better runtimes, better discipline (excepting those who should not be allowed near a keyboard) and exponentially more complex systems. I think it is highly disingenuous to suggest that software developers have been sitting on their hands, lazily writing bad code for the last 20 years with no will to do any better. That's disrespectful to our profession.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Rob Graham wrote:
the crap hardware
it was running some older Windows version, so nothing wrong there. If Win7 doesn't like some parts of it, the installer should say so, rather than silently fail. This is crappy software behavior, for which there is no excuse whatsoever. :|
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Luc Pattyn wrote:
This is crappy software behavior, for which there is no excuse whatsoever.
I agree wholeheartedly! If it isn't dummy-proof, it isn't done.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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Actually, while Win 7 moved towards 8% of the market share, Win XP and Vista combined dropped less than 2%. You Linux folks have an interesting method for calculating half ;P Where I come from, it's usually more than 25%.
rastaVnuce wrote:
I have written Win off years ago for different reasons.
Wow, you were using Win 7 years ago? Must've been a pre-alpha release? :wtf: That's like writing off Ubuntu because you had a bad Red Hat install in 2001.
rastaVnuce wrote:
Win is crap because of a lot of other things
lol...so is every OS.
TheyCallMeMrJames wrote:
Wow, you were using Win 7 years ago? Must've been a pre-alpha release?
Ammm... I guess you have problem with reading whole sentences. If you try to read it again you'll see that I have seat that I have written Windows off years ago. Windows doesn't automatically mean Windows 7. There were other versions before it. I don't know how long you're on the IT scene, perhaps you just wasn't aware about it.
TheyCallMeMrJames wrote:
Actually, while Win 7 moved towards 8% of the market share, Win XP and Vista combined dropped less than 2%.
There was an interesting talk somewhere on the net saying: when loosing an argument make up statistics.
We are using Linux daily to UP our productivity - so UP yours!
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Actually, while Win 7 moved towards 8% of the market share, Win XP and Vista combined dropped less than 2%. You Linux folks have an interesting method for calculating half ;P Where I come from, it's usually more than 25%.
rastaVnuce wrote:
I have written Win off years ago for different reasons.
Wow, you were using Win 7 years ago? Must've been a pre-alpha release? :wtf: That's like writing off Ubuntu because you had a bad Red Hat install in 2001.
rastaVnuce wrote:
Win is crap because of a lot of other things
lol...so is every OS.
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Software such as a modern (read: bloated) OS has long passed the point where its complexity means that full testing of the OS is no longer possible. We could probably make DOS perfect, give or take hardware issues that can corrupt the code itself, but then we have a perfect, pristine OS that, well, doesn't do a lot. Software development methologies have come a long, long way since the punch card days, and we have better tools, better languages, better runtimes, better discipline (excepting those who should not be allowed near a keyboard) and exponentially more complex systems. I think it is highly disingenuous to suggest that software developers have been sitting on their hands, lazily writing bad code for the last 20 years with no will to do any better. That's disrespectful to our profession.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I'm afraid you misunderstood. I'm not asking for perfect software, what I am requesting is that all software, when something goes wrong, makes a decent attempt at reporting what went wrong and indicating what the user could or should do about it. Modern methodologies, run-times and languages make that easier than before, and yet progress in this area is limited. Do you accept a Windows7 installation process dying over and over on a customer without notice? is that the best they can do? is that respectful to the customers? :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
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I'm afraid you misunderstood. I'm not asking for perfect software, what I am requesting is that all software, when something goes wrong, makes a decent attempt at reporting what went wrong and indicating what the user could or should do about it. Modern methodologies, run-times and languages make that easier than before, and yet progress in this area is limited. Do you accept a Windows7 installation process dying over and over on a customer without notice? is that the best they can do? is that respectful to the customers? :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
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have you thought that maybe if the install software could detect the problem it could also work round it? Often when something like this fails the failure is so low level that nothing gets beck to the software hence the freeze! its like blaiming a black box for not recording what happened in an aircrash caused by the tail (including black boxes) falling off. maybe MS should be more like Apple and state that thier software cannot be installed on non-approved hardware, this would stop these posts of "oh weven failed to install on my 1977 Commodore PET computer how rubbish is that"
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
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have you thought that maybe if the install software could detect the problem it could also work round it? Often when something like this fails the failure is so low level that nothing gets beck to the software hence the freeze! its like blaiming a black box for not recording what happened in an aircrash caused by the tail (including black boxes) falling off. maybe MS should be more like Apple and state that thier software cannot be installed on non-approved hardware, this would stop these posts of "oh weven failed to install on my 1977 Commodore PET computer how rubbish is that"
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
detecting a problem often is easier than working around it. so rather than try and work around 100% of the potential problems, I much prefer software to report 100% of the problems, and work around when it can. There was no tail falling off, it was a working system onto which Win7 failed to install without explaining itself or even giving a clue. :)
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detecting a problem often is easier than working around it. so rather than try and work around 100% of the potential problems, I much prefer software to report 100% of the problems, and work around when it can. There was no tail falling off, it was a working system onto which Win7 failed to install without explaining itself or even giving a clue. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
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The point was that the failure maybe in such a low level item than the install software doersnt get a notification, in which case all the programming in the world isnt going to help. did you run the compatability wizzard before staring? are all your components Windows 7 approved? as for it working with the previous system, this is a false positive, firstly 7 maybe accessing functionaity of the hardware that the old system did not, it is may be more tolerent of faults (one of xp's biggest problem was that it did not enforce its own rules and allowed bad practices to flourish) as to not having a clue, as i have said it is extreamly likely that the install software didnt recieve a clue as to the failure and in that case would be unable to tell you, it would only know if the relavent subsystem reports a problem or that it could continue and "skip" that part of the install, I have had the second occur on a window 7 install whena sound card failed, it just continued and reported the error on completion, as your did not do this i think it is more likely that the hardware is crashing the system mid install, nothing the OS/install package(as the OS may not be in control atc this point) can do about it. oh and have you tried reinstalling the "old" OS as you may find that it also bombs out now
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start