Instant alert bells
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As I suspect a lot of people do, I keep my eye on job sites and I'm reading through one this morning. You have good communication skills with both technical and non-technical people (you are able to run with minimally detailed requirements, asking the right questions throughout to fill in the blanks). Maybe it's my skepticism, but I read this as "We're able to cut out account managers because you'll be able to talk to the end users and run with whatever they tell you" and "There's no documentation process in place" You possess managerial courage (ability to challenge a position even when the outcome may be unpopular) Maybe through my personal experience, maybe through my lack of desire to take risks. But these statements just set off alarm bells, things like this in a job posting don't make it appeal to me.
hammerstein05 wrote:
You possess managerial courage
I've never, ever, seen a job ad that specifies courage. "Ok son, take this gun compiler, climb over the edge of this trench cubicle and run towards those angry guys with machine guns incomplete specifications" It's not really the same.
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As I suspect a lot of people do, I keep my eye on job sites and I'm reading through one this morning. You have good communication skills with both technical and non-technical people (you are able to run with minimally detailed requirements, asking the right questions throughout to fill in the blanks). Maybe it's my skepticism, but I read this as "We're able to cut out account managers because you'll be able to talk to the end users and run with whatever they tell you" and "There's no documentation process in place" You possess managerial courage (ability to challenge a position even when the outcome may be unpopular) Maybe through my personal experience, maybe through my lack of desire to take risks. But these statements just set off alarm bells, things like this in a job posting don't make it appeal to me.
Ha! It's a college, so it looks like my assessment was spot on -- the small-minded, cowardly, bitchy politics of college staff is legendary.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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As I suspect a lot of people do, I keep my eye on job sites and I'm reading through one this morning. You have good communication skills with both technical and non-technical people (you are able to run with minimally detailed requirements, asking the right questions throughout to fill in the blanks). Maybe it's my skepticism, but I read this as "We're able to cut out account managers because you'll be able to talk to the end users and run with whatever they tell you" and "There's no documentation process in place" You possess managerial courage (ability to challenge a position even when the outcome may be unpopular) Maybe through my personal experience, maybe through my lack of desire to take risks. But these statements just set off alarm bells, things like this in a job posting don't make it appeal to me.
hammerstein05 wrote:
You have good communication skills with both technical and non-technical people (you are able to run with minimally detailed requirements, asking the right questions throughout to fill in the blanks). You possess managerial courage (ability to challenge a position even when the outcome may be unpopular)
This isn't set up by a technical person, but by a non-technical manager or a "consultant". A devs' work isn't concentrated around lobbying.
I are Troll :suss:
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As I suspect a lot of people do, I keep my eye on job sites and I'm reading through one this morning. You have good communication skills with both technical and non-technical people (you are able to run with minimally detailed requirements, asking the right questions throughout to fill in the blanks). Maybe it's my skepticism, but I read this as "We're able to cut out account managers because you'll be able to talk to the end users and run with whatever they tell you" and "There's no documentation process in place" You possess managerial courage (ability to challenge a position even when the outcome may be unpopular) Maybe through my personal experience, maybe through my lack of desire to take risks. But these statements just set off alarm bells, things like this in a job posting don't make it appeal to me.
hammerstein05 wrote:
Maybe it's my skepticism, but I read this as "We're able to cut out account managers because you'll be able to talk to the end users and run with whatever they tell you" and "There's no documentation process in place"
Not IMO. They are asking for what should have a distinct name, maybe "Tech translator". It requries to think as a techie (analytical, problem solving), and the social skills to deal with users. It's often a fun job for engineers who enjoy talking to non-technical people. He's the one writing the specs, and the first choice for writing large parts of the project and product documentation. As Henry Ford supposedly once said, "If I’d asked my customers what they wanted, they’d have said a faster horse": distilling solutions suggested by users into problems, to be solved by the techs, and evaluating if these solutions would work for the customer. Account Managers usually deal with the administrative issues when which specification needs to be signed off by whom and what color the christmas card to the customer should be. All important stuff, too. Rules for dealing with users: - Users lie about what they want - Users don't know what they need - Users lie about what they just did ---- Requiring "Managerial Courage" fits the picture. Techs / Engs / Devs often look down at this guy with a "Who can, does, who can't teaches - or talks to customers". For the techs, he's the one who permanently picks holes into their ideas of a perfect product. He needs good technical skills and a strong personality to deal with them.
Agh! Reality! My Archnemesis![^]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server. -
hammerstein05 wrote:
You possess managerial courage
I've never, ever, seen a job ad that specifies courage. "Ok son, take this gun compiler, climb over the edge of this trench cubicle and run towards those angry guys with machine guns incomplete specifications" It's not really the same.
Josh Gray wrote:
"Ok son, take this gun compiler, climb over the edge of this trench cubicle and run towards those angry guys with machine guns incomplete specifications"
The idea of running toward me with incomplete specifications would actually frighten many people more than that of running toward a machine gun!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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As I suspect a lot of people do, I keep my eye on job sites and I'm reading through one this morning. You have good communication skills with both technical and non-technical people (you are able to run with minimally detailed requirements, asking the right questions throughout to fill in the blanks). Maybe it's my skepticism, but I read this as "We're able to cut out account managers because you'll be able to talk to the end users and run with whatever they tell you" and "There's no documentation process in place" You possess managerial courage (ability to challenge a position even when the outcome may be unpopular) Maybe through my personal experience, maybe through my lack of desire to take risks. But these statements just set off alarm bells, things like this in a job posting don't make it appeal to me.
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As I suspect a lot of people do, I keep my eye on job sites and I'm reading through one this morning. You have good communication skills with both technical and non-technical people (you are able to run with minimally detailed requirements, asking the right questions throughout to fill in the blanks). Maybe it's my skepticism, but I read this as "We're able to cut out account managers because you'll be able to talk to the end users and run with whatever they tell you" and "There's no documentation process in place" You possess managerial courage (ability to challenge a position even when the outcome may be unpopular) Maybe through my personal experience, maybe through my lack of desire to take risks. But these statements just set off alarm bells, things like this in a job posting don't make it appeal to me.
hammerstein05 wrote:
You have good communication skills with both technical and non-technical people (you are able to run with minimally detailed requirements, asking the right questions throughout to fill in the blanks). Maybe it's my skepticism, but I read this as "We're able to cut out account managers because you'll be able to talk to the end users and run with whatever they tell you" and "There's no documentation process in place"
I'm only ever interested in jobs with this sort of requirement. I'm a programmer, but dealing with clients is my favourite part of the job by a long way. I would hate any job that was purely programming and involved no direct interaction with clients.
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As I suspect a lot of people do, I keep my eye on job sites and I'm reading through one this morning. You have good communication skills with both technical and non-technical people (you are able to run with minimally detailed requirements, asking the right questions throughout to fill in the blanks). Maybe it's my skepticism, but I read this as "We're able to cut out account managers because you'll be able to talk to the end users and run with whatever they tell you" and "There's no documentation process in place" You possess managerial courage (ability to challenge a position even when the outcome may be unpopular) Maybe through my personal experience, maybe through my lack of desire to take risks. But these statements just set off alarm bells, things like this in a job posting don't make it appeal to me.
Sounds like every job I have had
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hammerstein05 wrote:
Maybe it's my skepticism, but I read this as "We're able to cut out account managers because you'll be able to talk to the end users and run with whatever they tell you" and "There's no documentation process in place"
Not IMO. They are asking for what should have a distinct name, maybe "Tech translator". It requries to think as a techie (analytical, problem solving), and the social skills to deal with users. It's often a fun job for engineers who enjoy talking to non-technical people. He's the one writing the specs, and the first choice for writing large parts of the project and product documentation. As Henry Ford supposedly once said, "If I’d asked my customers what they wanted, they’d have said a faster horse": distilling solutions suggested by users into problems, to be solved by the techs, and evaluating if these solutions would work for the customer. Account Managers usually deal with the administrative issues when which specification needs to be signed off by whom and what color the christmas card to the customer should be. All important stuff, too. Rules for dealing with users: - Users lie about what they want - Users don't know what they need - Users lie about what they just did ---- Requiring "Managerial Courage" fits the picture. Techs / Engs / Devs often look down at this guy with a "Who can, does, who can't teaches - or talks to customers". For the techs, he's the one who permanently picks holes into their ideas of a perfect product. He needs good technical skills and a strong personality to deal with them.
Agh! Reality! My Archnemesis![^]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server.peterchen wrote:
Users don't know what they need
The one who created the ad didn't know it either. What you're describing sounds to me like an information analyst, a role that could be handed to a senior developer. I was assuming that it was a vacancy for a developer, not an analyst.
I are Troll :suss:
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As I suspect a lot of people do, I keep my eye on job sites and I'm reading through one this morning. You have good communication skills with both technical and non-technical people (you are able to run with minimally detailed requirements, asking the right questions throughout to fill in the blanks). Maybe it's my skepticism, but I read this as "We're able to cut out account managers because you'll be able to talk to the end users and run with whatever they tell you" and "There's no documentation process in place" You possess managerial courage (ability to challenge a position even when the outcome may be unpopular) Maybe through my personal experience, maybe through my lack of desire to take risks. But these statements just set off alarm bells, things like this in a job posting don't make it appeal to me.
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Josh Gray wrote:
"Ok son, take this gun compiler, climb over the edge of this trench cubicle and run towards those angry guys with machine guns incomplete specifications"
The idea of running toward me with incomplete specifications would actually frighten many people more than that of running toward a machine gun!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark Wallace wrote:
The idea of running toward me with incomplete specifications would actually frighten many people more than that of running toward a machine gun!
Then they must be inflexible and unimaginative. I have often worked on incomplete specs. Heck, all software is incomplete, even though you think you have al the specs. Features are always being added, or changes needed. Just go with your gut instincts and get the product done as well as you can. Then get the feedback and make the changes as needed. And screw documentaiton. No one ever reads it anyway. There is an old adage in many circles, the best plans are those that are flexible and can cope with change.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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hammerstein05 wrote:
You possess managerial courage
I've never, ever, seen a job ad that specifies courage. "Ok son, take this gun compiler, climb over the edge of this trench cubicle and run towards those angry guys with machine guns incomplete specifications" It's not really the same.
I did. Military service. I'm sure the word 'courage' appeared here and there.
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
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peterchen wrote:
Users don't know what they need
The one who created the ad didn't know it either. What you're describing sounds to me like an information analyst, a role that could be handed to a senior developer. I was assuming that it was a vacancy for a developer, not an analyst.
I are Troll :suss:
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
What you're describing sounds to me like an information analyst, a role that could be handed to a senior developer. I was assuming that it was a vacancy for a developer, not an analyst.
Quite possible. That's what I read into that ad, at least.
Agh! Reality! My Archnemesis![^]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server. -
Mark Wallace wrote:
The idea of running toward me with incomplete specifications would actually frighten many people more than that of running toward a machine gun!
Then they must be inflexible and unimaginative. I have often worked on incomplete specs. Heck, all software is incomplete, even though you think you have al the specs. Features are always being added, or changes needed. Just go with your gut instincts and get the product done as well as you can. Then get the feedback and make the changes as needed. And screw documentaiton. No one ever reads it anyway. There is an old adage in many circles, the best plans are those that are flexible and can cope with change.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
And screw doing bad documentaiton, if you can't even spell words properly, let alone do complex stuff like explain how to do things. No one ever reads it anyway.
Fixed that for you.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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hammerstein05 wrote:
You possess managerial courage
I've never, ever, seen a job ad that specifies courage. "Ok son, take this gun compiler, climb over the edge of this trench cubicle and run towards those angry guys with machine guns incomplete specifications" It's not really the same.
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As I suspect a lot of people do, I keep my eye on job sites and I'm reading through one this morning. You have good communication skills with both technical and non-technical people (you are able to run with minimally detailed requirements, asking the right questions throughout to fill in the blanks). Maybe it's my skepticism, but I read this as "We're able to cut out account managers because you'll be able to talk to the end users and run with whatever they tell you" and "There's no documentation process in place" You possess managerial courage (ability to challenge a position even when the outcome may be unpopular) Maybe through my personal experience, maybe through my lack of desire to take risks. But these statements just set off alarm bells, things like this in a job posting don't make it appeal to me.
I take it the job title in the posting 'Lead scapegoat engineer' didn't give all this away?
Software Zen:
delete this; -
fat_boy wrote:
And screw doing bad documentaiton, if you can't even spell words properly, let alone do complex stuff like explain how to do things. No one ever reads it anyway.
Fixed that for you.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!