What was your first programming job like?
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
My first paid job as a programmer was writing 6502 assembly code for Apple II games. I was writing code 10-12 hours a day from day one. (And I always remember when that was since my oldest child was born a week after I started.) I've never worked for a company that had divisions. Take advantage and see how much training they'll pay for. Going through and understanding old code is not a bad thing; assuming you can use a debugger, you can learn a lot.
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
Anonymous12345678 wrote:
I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation?
My first programming job out of school was for $5.25 an hour in 1986. I was hired under the title of "Junior programmer" but there were no other programmers. I developed the code, tested the code, trained the users, wrote the manuals, wired the building for terminal access. Diagnosed hardware failures. Fixed data entry errors already applied to the general ledger. Fixed existing code to prevent out of balance errors being applied to the ledger from code prior to my employment (bought from IBM). Completely rewrote the user interfaces for more accurate and faster entry. I referred to myself as "a one man shop". Which to any programmer got a nod of understanding. When I left the company in 1992, I made 5.90 an hour (assuming you don't divide my hours into my salary). The data entry operator made 6.10 an hour.... During my employment I received all the trust and appreciation of a rabid dog chained to the back fence. Mandatory hours up to 97.5 hours a week without additional compensation above salary.
_________________________ John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others." Shhhhh.... I am not really here. I am a figment of your imagination.... I am still in my cave so this must be an illusion....
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
I was half way through a EE masters program as a self taught programmer when I left to pursue a job. Then I jumped head first into a C++ project for a 3D viewing application on the bleeding edge of Windows 95 desktop development (ooh ahh!). Plus it was a small privately owned company and there where only two other developers :)
Todd Smith
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
I have to say I think I had the best programming job in the world as my first job. I got 6 months training by the development team, they then moved out and left me on my own at the age of 22 to do all new development (PDP-11 and Macro-11), all the equipment operating including all the tracking - see BUTEC Applecross[^] - radar ops, radio, underwater acoustic analysis, etc etc. The programming involved everything from writing device drivers and tracking systems (the newly developed hardware would just be shipped up from England and I had to get on with it) to reports and plots (remember Calcom plotters anyone?) and analysis of the results. I had crash courses in underwater acoustics, signal processing, UHF and VHF radio and underwater telephone usage, use of theodolites for surveying, etc, etc. One day I'll write a book about it! Part of the job involved going out to sea - in submarines and yucky little diesel boats, going around in helicopters from A to B (much faster than by sea) and traipsing through the heather with a theodolite on my back. I stayed there for 3.5 years and moved on when the development was nearly finished. 'Twas the best job I ever had - downhill from then on, oh, except when I worked on the Sea Harrier flight simulator Sea Harrier[^] - but that's another story. Ah, those really were the days...
It’s not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it’s because we do not dare that things are difficult. ~Seneca
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
Anonymous12345678 wrote:
I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation?
I suspect that every company is different, so in that sense most such experiences are likely to be abberations. Mine certainly was. I didn't join my first company as a software developer but an electronic engineer. The short version is that I ended up on Defence projects, which were mostly support work rather than new development - and a lot of paperwork (we called them "rusty washer reports"). Eventually several of my team got drafted into writing bids for new contracts, started defining instrument fits for new ATE (Automatic Test Equipment) systems and defining high level software architectures. We did enough of them that by the time the inevitable happened and we won one of them we had some pretty advanced concepts ready to fly - but no teams to implement them. So, when we were informed by the MoD that we were the preferred supplier I went to my boss and suggested that I take time out to get up to speed on the instrumentation framework (a thing called TIMS, or Test Instrument Management System) and language (C++ - I already knew C) before it got urgent. He agreed, I scrounged a copy of Visual C++ 1.52 and 3 months later I took charge of two other engineers and mentored them as we got the thing going. However, by the time the system reached the integration phase I'd become so fed up with the stress and long hours that I left for a marine navigations systems company, where I stayed until leaving to found my own company.
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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My first programming job was for the Science and Engineering Research Council (a UK government R&D facility). I was given food and board, plus about £8 per week. But, I had full access to a Prime 400, GEC 4070, IBM 360/195 and a FR80 Graphics processor (a two tonne graphics processor, things was big then those days). I was programming in Fortran and a preprocessed "structured" Fortran variant called "Ratfor". But documentation took up a large (and dull) part of my time. Now, too. It's a fact of life. Documentation is part of the job, but consulting companies are not paid by the quality of documentation, just the weight. The guys on the front line who code in front of the clients are paid better, so it makes good accountancy sense to move them to more programming and leave the docs to the lower paid peons. Move up in the company, or move out! (or learn to love documenting - oink, oink, flap, flap, floss, floss!)
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together.
You remember Prime? Wow! My dad used to work for them in their Engineering department and then he moved to Kuwait for a few years as their sales person in the GCC particularly at the Petroleum companies. You're one of three that I have ever heard of that knows of Prime. I'm genuinely impressed.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Playing Star Craft II. Don't bother me, eh? Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
My first programming job (1987) at DEC's AI Technology Center (Expert Systems Group) was *awesome*! When I joined the team, I was sure I knew more than anyone else and was convinced I could finish my tasks WAY before their allocated time. When I moved on (7 years later, and after forming several life-long friendships), I realized how little I actually knew, was amazed at how smart everyone else was, and constantly fretted about how overly optimistic our deadlines were. :) It was a great job - I wrote code 24 hours a day (well OK, maybe 23). My management was technically savvy, yet kept out of our way most of the time - they were true enablers - they made it possible for us young un's to do our job. DEC was one of the best jobs I've ever had. The ability to work directly with folks like John McDermott and developers of VMS 1.0 was amazing. And the cafeterias and helipads were pretty darn cool, too! • DEC memory 1[^] • DEC memory 2[^] /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Anonymous12345678 wrote:
I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation?
I suspect that every company is different, so in that sense most such experiences are likely to be abberations. Mine certainly was. I didn't join my first company as a software developer but an electronic engineer. The short version is that I ended up on Defence projects, which were mostly support work rather than new development - and a lot of paperwork (we called them "rusty washer reports"). Eventually several of my team got drafted into writing bids for new contracts, started defining instrument fits for new ATE (Automatic Test Equipment) systems and defining high level software architectures. We did enough of them that by the time the inevitable happened and we won one of them we had some pretty advanced concepts ready to fly - but no teams to implement them. So, when we were informed by the MoD that we were the preferred supplier I went to my boss and suggested that I take time out to get up to speed on the instrumentation framework (a thing called TIMS, or Test Instrument Management System) and language (C++ - I already knew C) before it got urgent. He agreed, I scrounged a copy of Visual C++ 1.52 and 3 months later I took charge of two other engineers and mentored them as we got the thing going. However, by the time the system reached the integration phase I'd become so fed up with the stress and long hours that I left for a marine navigations systems company, where I stayed until leaving to found my own company.
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
Anna, I just read your bio and see you also worked in the field of underwater acoustics. I still have my old battered copy of Principles of Underwater Sound by Robert Urick. There was another soft cover book as well that was the other definitive text but I can't find it. It's so long since I worked on that stuff that I've forgotten most of it, but the first thing I did when I went in to work every morning was read the bathythermal dip results to see what had changed in the sea overnight! Fun days, but you are correct about the stress and hours worked.
It’s not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it’s because we do not dare that things are difficult. ~Seneca
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You remember Prime? Wow! My dad used to work for them in their Engineering department and then he moved to Kuwait for a few years as their sales person in the GCC particularly at the Petroleum companies. You're one of three that I have ever heard of that knows of Prime. I'm genuinely impressed.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Playing Star Craft II. Don't bother me, eh? Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
#4 - I worked on Prime many years ago.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Anna, I just read your bio and see you also worked in the field of underwater acoustics. I still have my old battered copy of Principles of Underwater Sound by Robert Urick. There was another soft cover book as well that was the other definitive text but I can't find it. It's so long since I worked on that stuff that I've forgotten most of it, but the first thing I did when I went in to work every morning was read the bathythermal dip results to see what had changed in the sea overnight! Fun days, but you are correct about the stress and hours worked.
It’s not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it’s because we do not dare that things are difficult. ~Seneca
It was certainly pretty amazing. As a bonus we got to build a new LBL/USBL acoustic navigation product which ultimately became rather successful, which was pretty satisfying. :) I actually worked far longer hours at Racal than Sonardyne - trials weeks apart, marine was a walk in the park compared to what I went through working on defence projects.
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
I worked part-time as a programmer through college for a consulting company. While there, they had me in programmer, system manager, and technical writer slots for various customers. After I graduated, I continued working for them mostly as a programmer until I went to another company. If you're not enjoying what you're doing, look around and find something else. Documenting someone else's old crap might make you a living, but it isn't giving you very useful experience, and it certainly isn't something I'd brag about on my resume.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
From my interviews I'd say you're in the norm. The position I have was one of three I can think of that had anything to do with actually coding, because most people want 3-5 years of coding experience before they'll hire someone to do code for them. I interviewed about 15 times before I found something, which would put actual development at about 1/5 for new positions. Now I'm sitting here coming up on my second year here with mounting expectations, shorter schedules, no raise in sight and questionable job security. So even programing is hardly all roses, though I have been able to do some cool stuff, I'm finding it remarkably hard to turn off at night due to just how much is being expected out of me. I'm questioning if I should demonstrate competence at my next job or not as it seems to only accelerate the speed at which you approach the death spiral of far to high expectations.
Distind wrote:
second year here with mounting expectations, shorter schedules, no raise in sight and questionable job security
What have you done to redress the situation? Look at it from your manager's perspective: I have X projects that need completion by Y or my hide is on the line. Project Z is tough with a very tight deadline and is sponsored by that inimitable board member Mr. A. Hole who golfs with my manager every weekend. Do I give it to the Slacker, the Idiot, the Brownnoser or the guy who just gets everything I ask done? I hope I'm not burning him out .. if he leaves I'm screwed .. but he hasn't complained. If you're work is being adversely affected you need to identify possible remedies that benefit both parties (more sleep for you, more productivity for your employer) and bring them up. If you stay quiet, well, everything must be alright - no?. Managers are not by default malicious and certainly not omniscient. Taking the initiative on better organizing your workload should give you kudos. If not, then you'll know it's time to move on anyhow.
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guess I was lucky to find jobs in small companies that did c++, graphics, scientific softwares. no SAP/Peoplesoft and all that junk. I've always did programming, entry level stuff at the beginning, but always programming.
Watched code never compiles.
Wow how did you manage to pull that off? That's exactly the type of programming I would like to do (or embedded programming) but I didn't have any luck getting that type of job. Then again my last semester was when all the banks were collapsing so I had to take what I could get :( .
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
I was an Electrical/Electronic engineer out of university. My first job was at an aerospace company - building interface circuits to join a PDP-11 to various bits of hardware under test. I then had to write the drivers (PDP-11 assembly) for said interface boards. Way cool stuff. After a few years there I moved to a pure software job - C and 6800/6809/68000 assembly programming (C++ hadn't been invented yet). Mind you, all that was a few years ago, now. (I just added it up, that was over two decades ago). Things could be well different by now. I guess they could well be different by now, too. ;P
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
1994, a three month contract doing straight C on OpenVMS for more than I'm making now. I wrote a system that automated the gathering and storing of manufacturing metrics. And documented it too.
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
My first job was not really a programming job, I was hired by GE as a hardware tech to bring up new manufactured 645'5 (this was in '65) for project Mac. The machines wouldn't run any OS, and the diagnostic tapes really didn't really cover the hardware errors we were encountering (mis-wiring etc.) We had to write out own short looping programs, on a coding pad in octal, then multi-punch the cards (3 columns per 36 bit machine word - 26 words per card) on an IBM 029 key punch, and then boot the program in via the card reader. The system had a CPU under test, a working I/O controller, printer, and card reader, and later a tape to finally read in the diagnostic tapes. If you made a mistake in the program, you could copy some of the columns from the old card, then punch in new instructions. You learned early to use relative addressing (relative to the IC) for jumps to help in re-coding. The biggest program I wrote was 4 cards long, and correctly diagnosed the 645 appending unit (where all descriptors were kept and accessed). When the appending unit was being re-designed (because it was too slow) from discrete components to IC's, they needed some way to debug their hardware, then they heard about my 4 card program. They used it to fix their design, and when the newly hired head of T&D heard about it, guess who was his first new-hire? My first real programing job. Dave.
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
I wrote cobol code for (what was a t the time) a 20 year old Data General mainframe at a car yard / car parts supplier. I worked for the grumpiest, nastiest 75 year old man in existence who treated me like shit. I wrote code and parked his car for him, I fixed the computers of his various similarly aged girl friends, I bought his lunch, took his mail to the post office and after 11 months I told him where to go. Never looked back.
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Wow how did you manage to pull that off? That's exactly the type of programming I would like to do (or embedded programming) but I didn't have any luck getting that type of job. Then again my last semester was when all the banks were collapsing so I had to take what I could get :( .
It's pretty simple. The smaller the company the more chance you have to actually do the job you where hired for (aka programming), the bigger the company the more chance you have of doing 'nothing' (sounds nice but gets really boring after a while). I'v worked for several company's (4 now) in the short first year of my 'working' life. One was a international big company where I was hired for .NET programming, turned out they didn't even have a .NET department. I ended up sitting there doing absolutely nothing for 3 weeks before quiting. The company I'm in now is a small software company (only 6 of us here) and so far I'v written the company's .NET framework, worked with all sorts of other programs (mostly accounting programs), had the chance to work with a lot of 3th party controls. But the downside is you won't get a promotion or pay raise as quickly as with a big company.
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#4 - I worked on Prime many years ago.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesAwesome! Dad is finally going to approve of my friends! :-D
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Playing Star Craft II. Don't bother me, eh? Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
