What was your first programming job like?
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Wow how did you manage to pull that off? That's exactly the type of programming I would like to do (or embedded programming) but I didn't have any luck getting that type of job. Then again my last semester was when all the banks were collapsing so I had to take what I could get :( .
I have had a similar experience, always working in companies with about fifty employees, of which around a dozen were developers, the rest being the factory, sales, accounts, management etc. I was programming from day one, translating old Pascal code into C, written on a PC, compiled on a VAX then run on an embedded system. Within six months I had my own small project writing the BIOS for a new board, albeit with a lot of support and supervision for the first few years. Small companies are more entrepreneurial, so anything such as spending months writing documentation goes by the board, as there is always something more important to get released.
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You remember Prime? Wow! My dad used to work for them in their Engineering department and then he moved to Kuwait for a few years as their sales person in the GCC particularly at the Petroleum companies. You're one of three that I have ever heard of that knows of Prime. I'm genuinely impressed.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Playing Star Craft II. Don't bother me, eh? Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
You remember Prime? Wow! My dad used to work for them in their Engineering department and then he moved to Kuwait for a few years as their sales person in the GCC particularly at the Petroleum companies. You're one of three that I have ever heard of that knows of Prime. I'm genuinely impressed.
I did work experience at Huddersfield University in the early 90's and they had a few Prime's and VAX's in their IT department - I didn't get to play with them though, but they looked impressive back then!
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
I loved my first programming job! It was mainly reports and input screens in COBOL on an HP3000. There was a lot of documentation (reading and writing) but that's just the way things are right? I was there about 11 months when the company got bought out and I was kept on as the sole programmer for the entire system! A genuinely arse-clenching, sink or swim experience I can tell you!
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Distind wrote:
second year here with mounting expectations, shorter schedules, no raise in sight and questionable job security
What have you done to redress the situation? Look at it from your manager's perspective: I have X projects that need completion by Y or my hide is on the line. Project Z is tough with a very tight deadline and is sponsored by that inimitable board member Mr. A. Hole who golfs with my manager every weekend. Do I give it to the Slacker, the Idiot, the Brownnoser or the guy who just gets everything I ask done? I hope I'm not burning him out .. if he leaves I'm screwed .. but he hasn't complained. If you're work is being adversely affected you need to identify possible remedies that benefit both parties (more sleep for you, more productivity for your employer) and bring them up. If you stay quiet, well, everything must be alright - no?. Managers are not by default malicious and certainly not omniscient. Taking the initiative on better organizing your workload should give you kudos. If not, then you'll know it's time to move on anyhow.
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I have, I've made it perfectly clear that each time something supersedes something else that the time line on the other is going to suffer. And it's not as handy as having a brownnoser, slacker or idiot, we have two people here. I typically have to do so daily to explain why something else isn't done yet, as my priority 1, has been rendered priority 1.b by something else, which pushes last week's priority 1 to 1.c, and leaves me answering to whoever requested that. I've most certainly complained, and more than once I was the one to dig through the records and prove what the client was claiming we did wrong, was done correctly per their request, and we had asked the questions that should have gotten the issue aired and corrected if we had ever received answers from the client. Or that I had documented that the item had been delayed based on some other request. Or pretty much anything that involves me pointing out that things don't get done when you don't get time to finish them, or done correctly if you don't get answers to define what correct is. Problem is, and the only reason I got to do the development here in the first place, I'm 50% of the work force. And I've caught at least one airing of them considering cutting the number of people in the department. Which was most of my point, and apparently worth getting one voted. Though I do understand as a lot of people complain here first, I was just trying to warn the guy that getting a dev job without much history may well land you in a job that doesn't let go. If I was ranting about it I could take up pages, but that was not my intention. I will note that I'm sick, and spinning this off while waiting for a load to run so I can go home and rest. I may or may not be coherent in the above.
modified on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:00 AM
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
In my first “official” position as an associate software engineer I was given the multi-function device from hell, or the project the other programmers didn’t want. The language was in 8-bit assembly. The project consisted of upgrading the microcontrollers to a newer platform (Motorola HC05 to HC08) There were 3 microcontrollers on the device, each one added after a new feature was added. Each new feature programmed by a different programmer and the hardware designed by someone different. Micro 1 was activated using the IRQ pin and communicated via the SPI to micro 2 which was activated through the reset pin which in turn communicated to micro 3 and the keypad via the SCI. All of the micros were run independently as master devices. The micros also were required to be in sync. It was very, very frightening, but I did eventually get through it. Then the real nightmare began with the V&V and documentation. and recoding to QA's interpretation of a certain feature, then recoding the same feature to the interpretation of the project manager. I learned to write a version of code for each and usually the code would end up a mix of both versions. __________________________________ "It was broke, so I fixed it"
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
My first programming job was an internship and yes, I started coding from day one like there was no tomorrow. Try to investigate the plans they have for you in this company as not programming will not get you anywhere. To master your skill you need practice and real world challenges. If I were you, I'd be looking for a different job. I've seen stuff like this before and they usually lead to a very long 'get to nowhere' situation. Beware and good luck. Regards, Fábio
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
My first job involved making code changes to a Data General system that was undergoing an OS upgrade. All the code had to be changed just because the OS was changing! :omg: The job was supposed to be only temporary. The work I did and the initiative I showed to do beyond what was expected made me stay on permanently and eventually became IT Manager after only about 5 years. I have learned that going above and beyond what is expected is key to getting noticed and moving up in any profession.
-------------------------------------------- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
My first paid programming job was in 1971 working for a U of Texas professor programming numerical reservoir simulation software in Fortran. I earned a normal student wage, which wasn't much, but it carried me through my last 2 years of studies. When I graduated with my BS and started my MS work I took over part of the project and it turned into my MS Thesis. That's when I expanded into studying algorithms, learned Algol, Basic, etc.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
Normal? There is no normal! But, if you do the best job of documentation that anyone at your shop has ever seen then you will have fulfilled your side of the employment equation in a manner that will allow you to go to sleep each night with a clear conscience and a sense of accomplishment. Along the way, that is, during the time while you are doing this job that you didn’t sign on to do, you should periodically remind your immediate superior that your talents could more fully effect the bottom line by using you in the role where your passions reside. I suggest that you clearly explain that you are doing everything in your power to write the best documentation on planet Earth, but that you are actually a programmer and that your talents are being underused. Remind them to think of how much value you could bring if only they would cut you loose from the “easy” stuff. Another aspect of your situation is the FACT that you can learn something new in EVERY new situation. Take advantage of this opportunity and it will serve you somewhere down the road.
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You remember Prime? Wow! My dad used to work for them in their Engineering department and then he moved to Kuwait for a few years as their sales person in the GCC particularly at the Petroleum companies. You're one of three that I have ever heard of that knows of Prime. I'm genuinely impressed.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Playing Star Craft II. Don't bother me, eh? Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
Count me as the 5th (or maybe 6th by now!) Back in '78 I worked for a company called Energy Management Associates. We had a FORTRAN IV program called PROMOD III which simulated electric power generation utilities. All our development was done on a PRIME system. (I think the actual logo was PR1ME). We could emit executables for Prime Minicomputers and IBM 360/165 systems. -Max
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
I started so long ago we only had one's no zero's. :-D
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
I'll get to my programming job after the following saga... My first IT job was billed as being an operator. It was more data tech. Decollating, bursting, card sorting, duplication and interpreting. They took me up to the computer room door and let me peer in. If I was good they said, they'd let me in there in a year or two. Two months later I took a job as third shift computer operator at the University of Iowa Physics Research Center. Was responsible for two Univac 418s (Model I and Model II, pick your level of obsolescence). This was when Pioneer 10 was just going past Jupiter and it was operating in "high data rate". So my job was to start a program, mount a tape, and find something to do for the next 8 hours, since it was going to crank all night long generating 35mm plots of reading for Dr. Van Allen (of the radiation belts). My agreement was that any computer time left over after running my assigned jobs I could use as my own. I used to rewrite the programs to make them run faster. :) My first programming job was doing assembly language programming on IBM-370. My co-workers were totally clueless. One named all his routines after Disney characters. Another advised me not to waste time with comments since the instructions would tell you what the program was doing. Yet another railed against all the different opcodes, he couldn't see the use of them. I guess he was a happy camper when RISC came along. The largest program ever written until I showed up was 2.5" thick (of computer cards). My first program was a card box and a half (around 3000 lines), it was capable of parsing database maintenance commands (back when databases were flat files) and 2/3rds macro generated. After a year, I left to work for a microcomputer store. The day after I quit, the company announced bankruptcy. I guess they figured they couldn't go on without me. ;P
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11
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Distind wrote:
second year here with mounting expectations, shorter schedules, no raise in sight and questionable job security
What have you done to redress the situation? Look at it from your manager's perspective: I have X projects that need completion by Y or my hide is on the line. Project Z is tough with a very tight deadline and is sponsored by that inimitable board member Mr. A. Hole who golfs with my manager every weekend. Do I give it to the Slacker, the Idiot, the Brownnoser or the guy who just gets everything I ask done? I hope I'm not burning him out .. if he leaves I'm screwed .. but he hasn't complained. If you're work is being adversely affected you need to identify possible remedies that benefit both parties (more sleep for you, more productivity for your employer) and bring them up. If you stay quiet, well, everything must be alright - no?. Managers are not by default malicious and certainly not omniscient. Taking the initiative on better organizing your workload should give you kudos. If not, then you'll know it's time to move on anyhow.
062142174041062102
So it comes down to: is your boss incompetent, or is it further up the chain? Either way, time to leave me thinks. Huh - replied to myself?!
062142174041062102
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I have, I've made it perfectly clear that each time something supersedes something else that the time line on the other is going to suffer. And it's not as handy as having a brownnoser, slacker or idiot, we have two people here. I typically have to do so daily to explain why something else isn't done yet, as my priority 1, has been rendered priority 1.b by something else, which pushes last week's priority 1 to 1.c, and leaves me answering to whoever requested that. I've most certainly complained, and more than once I was the one to dig through the records and prove what the client was claiming we did wrong, was done correctly per their request, and we had asked the questions that should have gotten the issue aired and corrected if we had ever received answers from the client. Or that I had documented that the item had been delayed based on some other request. Or pretty much anything that involves me pointing out that things don't get done when you don't get time to finish them, or done correctly if you don't get answers to define what correct is. Problem is, and the only reason I got to do the development here in the first place, I'm 50% of the work force. And I've caught at least one airing of them considering cutting the number of people in the department. Which was most of my point, and apparently worth getting one voted. Though I do understand as a lot of people complain here first, I was just trying to warn the guy that getting a dev job without much history may well land you in a job that doesn't let go. If I was ranting about it I could take up pages, but that was not my intention. I will note that I'm sick, and spinning this off while waiting for a load to run so I can go home and rest. I may or may not be coherent in the above.
modified on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 8:00 AM
So it comes down to: is your boss incompetent, or is it further up the chain? Either way, time to leave me thinks.
062142174041062102
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guess I was lucky to find jobs in small companies that did c++, graphics, scientific softwares. no SAP/Peoplesoft and all that junk. I've always did programming, entry level stuff at the beginning, but always programming.
Watched code never compiles.
Small companies are less likely to be able to afford separate QA staff, so they get the programmer to fill those shoes. That also leaves fewer opportunities for moving up any ladders, because when you're hired by a small company as a programmer, there's already a chance that you're the head programmer.
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From my interviews I'd say you're in the norm. The position I have was one of three I can think of that had anything to do with actually coding, because most people want 3-5 years of coding experience before they'll hire someone to do code for them. I interviewed about 15 times before I found something, which would put actual development at about 1/5 for new positions. Now I'm sitting here coming up on my second year here with mounting expectations, shorter schedules, no raise in sight and questionable job security. So even programing is hardly all roses, though I have been able to do some cool stuff, I'm finding it remarkably hard to turn off at night due to just how much is being expected out of me. I'm questioning if I should demonstrate competence at my next job or not as it seems to only accelerate the speed at which you approach the death spiral of far to high expectations.
You're suffering from a common programmer's malady called: "I can't say no". Of course, one really never says no, but the correct form of answer is: "Yes, but which of my other priorities may I drop?". If you get the reply: "None of them." :omg: , then run fast and far, your employer has no empathy for your welfare, and will suck you dry and then drop you. And they will probably try to cut your pay in the process.
Fletcher Glenn
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
I was fortunate to be able to back my way into programming. I was already an established Electronic Engineer, and my employer wanted to integrate an Intel 8008 (not a typo) into their product. So I began programming in 8008 assembly language. Every succeeding job involved a higher and higher percentage of programming in a multitude of languages until, in 1986, I switched over to the dark-side and became a full-time programmer.
Fletcher Glenn
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
I worked in a warehouse for a mail marketer. I worked on a system 370 mainframe running dos vse with 1 hard drive (i think it was 50 meg). we had green tubes with a molded in keyboard that weighed a couple hundred pounds. Mind you everyone else gave us their old equipment so they didnt have to pay to get rid of it... tubes broke all the time, you had to climb the shelves in the back, pick a new one and carry it down. Yes i dropped quite a few... I had to run the wires to have a phone at my desk, i had to share a line with 5 other people... there was no documentation, no nothing. we did have shag carpet though. backups, were never done, not even when upgrading the system we have come a long way from my mainframe assembler days...
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
During my high school I learned C & C++, during my bachelors degree I was programming using visual basic 6 before comming to .net. It was all during the year 2003, when we had to do our final project and one of our clients, St Mary Syrian Church(they had schools/shops/church etc), they wanted to have a accounting package to manage there accounts as currently they were using pen & paper(using registers). That was my first programming job, to develop an accounting package developed using Vb6.0 and MS Access. After developing the whole application the client was impressed and they paid us some money and eventually for all the enhancement further on they paid us. It took around one year to fine tune the application. The best thing is still they use the application.
Vinay
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job? I was hired into a technology division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program. I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation? ps Sorry this is a cross post. I forgot that nobody reads the work/training issues forum. Moderators, if you want to get rid of one please get rid of that one.
I was studying Math and had to take a few classes on programming, FORTRAN IV and Algol. Without knowing what was going on I aced my classes. My friends noticed and started asking me to help with their assignments. I spent the next few years making money tutoring CS and helping them write their assignments. In the mean time someone who learned about this offered me a job as and RPG II programmer (if there is such a thing); one night, driving back from going to work at 2 AM to fix a disk allocation problems on a JCL deck, I dreamed up of writing a program to deal with disk allocation. It was then that I discovered operating systems. Shortly thereafter I came to the US to study OS and worked with operating systems from '78 to the mid eighties; those were the best years of my programming career. Recently I found a link to a course on how to write and OS from scratch. I'll do it. Back to the start I go! Rodrigo Silveira