Getting the Heck out of Management
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I recently (6 months ago) took a position that was advertised as a Team Leader. It turned out to be more of a meeting jockey / team manager / spec writer position than anything else. The pay is good, benefits are friggin awesome (new car every 6 months :) ) but the lack of coding and frustrations of dealing with HR issues and managing junior devs to get stuff delivered on time is wearing thin. I have to take work home in order to get any development done. Has anyone else had the same experience or moved from this management crap back into dev? How is this seen on your CV/resume? I may have to take a pay cut but even that is better than this crap.
A move to management may be inevitable. Slashdot has a story in today's edition[^] about ageism in development, so your choices may be to either move into management or move out. And the grayer you get, the tougher it is to find a development position. As to how it's seen on your resume, I suspect it would not be viewed positively. Those who evaluate CVs tend to be managers, and I think they would by and large not look favorably on one who was given an opportunity to move into management, then moved back to development. There must be exceptions, but I think it would make future job searches tougher. So, all in all, you may be better off where you are.
David Veeneman www.veeneman.com
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Have you seen what contract PM's make? Yowzer! That is my ultimate dream contract.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
I moved into owning my own company. Now that was yowzer.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
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I recently (6 months ago) took a position that was advertised as a Team Leader. It turned out to be more of a meeting jockey / team manager / spec writer position than anything else. The pay is good, benefits are friggin awesome (new car every 6 months :) ) but the lack of coding and frustrations of dealing with HR issues and managing junior devs to get stuff delivered on time is wearing thin. I have to take work home in order to get any development done. Has anyone else had the same experience or moved from this management crap back into dev? How is this seen on your CV/resume? I may have to take a pay cut but even that is better than this crap.
Charl wrote:
Has anyone else had the same experience or moved from this management crap back into dev?
Not me (well, except I ran my own business for a while but for some reason I don't count it as management), but I know quite a few people who did exactly the same and still have good careers.
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A move to management may be inevitable. Slashdot has a story in today's edition[^] about ageism in development, so your choices may be to either move into management or move out. And the grayer you get, the tougher it is to find a development position. As to how it's seen on your resume, I suspect it would not be viewed positively. Those who evaluate CVs tend to be managers, and I think they would by and large not look favorably on one who was given an opportunity to move into management, then moved back to development. There must be exceptions, but I think it would make future job searches tougher. So, all in all, you may be better off where you are.
David Veeneman www.veeneman.com
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A move to management may be inevitable. Slashdot has a story in today's edition[^] about ageism in development, so your choices may be to either move into management or move out. And the grayer you get, the tougher it is to find a development position. As to how it's seen on your resume, I suspect it would not be viewed positively. Those who evaluate CVs tend to be managers, and I think they would by and large not look favorably on one who was given an opportunity to move into management, then moved back to development. There must be exceptions, but I think it would make future job searches tougher. So, all in all, you may be better off where you are.
David Veeneman www.veeneman.com
David Veeneman wrote:
A move to management may be inevitable. Slashdot has a story in today's edition[^] about ageism in development
Well, if Slashdot has a story, then it surely must be true...
modified on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 4:07 PM
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I recently (6 months ago) took a position that was advertised as a Team Leader. It turned out to be more of a meeting jockey / team manager / spec writer position than anything else. The pay is good, benefits are friggin awesome (new car every 6 months :) ) but the lack of coding and frustrations of dealing with HR issues and managing junior devs to get stuff delivered on time is wearing thin. I have to take work home in order to get any development done. Has anyone else had the same experience or moved from this management crap back into dev? How is this seen on your CV/resume? I may have to take a pay cut but even that is better than this crap.
You might want to take some of your "free" time and make an application/service for yourself and startup a business of your own. There will be some management involved in that too but you get to code what you want as well. This way you can learn new things or do whatever you really enjoy and keep the job until your business outpays the "day job". The experience in the management world would help you with the more mundain tasks of starting a new business as well. As for how it looks on the resume I liked the other idea of saying that you were the most qualified person at the time and that you helped to train the person that took over.
Steve Maier
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David Veeneman wrote:
A move to management may be inevitable. Slashdot has a story in today's edition[^] about ageism in development
Well, if Slashdot has a story, then it surely must be true...
modified on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 4:07 PM
Well, it's written by God, so it has to be true, right? :laugh:
David Veeneman www.veeneman.com
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That one is entirely up to you. :)
David Veeneman www.veeneman.com
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I recently (6 months ago) took a position that was advertised as a Team Leader. It turned out to be more of a meeting jockey / team manager / spec writer position than anything else. The pay is good, benefits are friggin awesome (new car every 6 months :) ) but the lack of coding and frustrations of dealing with HR issues and managing junior devs to get stuff delivered on time is wearing thin. I have to take work home in order to get any development done. Has anyone else had the same experience or moved from this management crap back into dev? How is this seen on your CV/resume? I may have to take a pay cut but even that is better than this crap.
I hear you! I made the move out of management and into coding a few years ago. Best decision I've ever made. Now I'm doing something I actually enjoy, and let's face it: Life is way to short not to be doing something you enjoy. I went back to school and got a MIS degree and had no problem finding a job. When the question came up about my leaving management I simply responded that management was not for me, I wanted to be true to myself, and I'm a much better programmer. They seemed to respect the honesty of my answer. Anyway it must have been good enough because I got the job the next day. Sure, the pay is not as good, but I learned that you can't put a price on happiness (unfortunately you do need to make enough to cover the bills :sigh: ). I say go for it.
-NP Never underestimate the creativity of the end-user.
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I recently (6 months ago) took a position that was advertised as a Team Leader. It turned out to be more of a meeting jockey / team manager / spec writer position than anything else. The pay is good, benefits are friggin awesome (new car every 6 months :) ) but the lack of coding and frustrations of dealing with HR issues and managing junior devs to get stuff delivered on time is wearing thin. I have to take work home in order to get any development done. Has anyone else had the same experience or moved from this management crap back into dev? How is this seen on your CV/resume? I may have to take a pay cut but even that is better than this crap.
The problem is few companies took Bjarne Stroustrup's advice and paid their top developers on the same scale as their managers. Going into management is often seen as the next step for some of the best developers and that shouldn't be the case at all.
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I recently (6 months ago) took a position that was advertised as a Team Leader. It turned out to be more of a meeting jockey / team manager / spec writer position than anything else. The pay is good, benefits are friggin awesome (new car every 6 months :) ) but the lack of coding and frustrations of dealing with HR issues and managing junior devs to get stuff delivered on time is wearing thin. I have to take work home in order to get any development done. Has anyone else had the same experience or moved from this management crap back into dev? How is this seen on your CV/resume? I may have to take a pay cut but even that is better than this crap.
It depends on the kind of person you are. not everyone is suited to it. I end up doing some of this but am still able to keep a balance. I guess part of it is keeping the balance and making your own space or others will dictate it.
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]
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I recently (6 months ago) took a position that was advertised as a Team Leader. It turned out to be more of a meeting jockey / team manager / spec writer position than anything else. The pay is good, benefits are friggin awesome (new car every 6 months :) ) but the lack of coding and frustrations of dealing with HR issues and managing junior devs to get stuff delivered on time is wearing thin. I have to take work home in order to get any development done. Has anyone else had the same experience or moved from this management crap back into dev? How is this seen on your CV/resume? I may have to take a pay cut but even that is better than this crap.
Having been there a number of times, I am constantly refusing to be moved into the PM role, I have found there is no stigma to admitting that you are not cut out to be a manager. I've been in management roles and I suck at it, some of us are just not cut out to manage people, let us play with the software and get on with it. It does however limit your career path, about the only way forward is architect and that has fairly limited scope. If you are looking for a long term career path then development is not the answer. If, however, development is your passion then you can only become the very best developer you can and hope that you find a company that will appreciate (and pay for) your knowledge.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I recently (6 months ago) took a position that was advertised as a Team Leader. It turned out to be more of a meeting jockey / team manager / spec writer position than anything else. The pay is good, benefits are friggin awesome (new car every 6 months :) ) but the lack of coding and frustrations of dealing with HR issues and managing junior devs to get stuff delivered on time is wearing thin. I have to take work home in order to get any development done. Has anyone else had the same experience or moved from this management crap back into dev? How is this seen on your CV/resume? I may have to take a pay cut but even that is better than this crap.
I've managed to evade it most of my life, primarily by working in companies that used a split management structure. In matrix organizations, line managers maintain a pool of talent, while project managers requisition talent from them. By sticking to project management I was able to dance around the HR crap and let the losers in line management deal with personnel issues. The small company I now work for is so micromanaged that the GM deals with all personnel matters so that the rest of us can do useful work. Heaven... :rolleyes:
Will Rogers never met me.
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I recently (6 months ago) took a position that was advertised as a Team Leader. It turned out to be more of a meeting jockey / team manager / spec writer position than anything else. The pay is good, benefits are friggin awesome (new car every 6 months :) ) but the lack of coding and frustrations of dealing with HR issues and managing junior devs to get stuff delivered on time is wearing thin. I have to take work home in order to get any development done. Has anyone else had the same experience or moved from this management crap back into dev? How is this seen on your CV/resume? I may have to take a pay cut but even that is better than this crap.
I hated my first management job, because I'd go home feeling like I'd done nothing -- there was nothing tangible to show for the eight hours I'd spent. A change of perspective from "get the job done" to "get the most out of people" made all the difference for me -- were you aware that people who are happy to be at work are a lot more productive than those who aren't? Make it your job, as manager, to make people happy with their jobs, not to make them work. It's a complex as designing any other system, and you'll enjoy it a Hell of a lot more when you get to see how each "statement" in your "program" performs. It's not meeting deadlines that counts, it's how well everything works, how well people work together, and how satisfied each person is with what they've done. You never have to worry about deadlines if you get the team working right, so you just sit down and work out the system, and the "commands" and "statements" that will do the trick.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I recently (6 months ago) took a position that was advertised as a Team Leader. It turned out to be more of a meeting jockey / team manager / spec writer position than anything else. The pay is good, benefits are friggin awesome (new car every 6 months :) ) but the lack of coding and frustrations of dealing with HR issues and managing junior devs to get stuff delivered on time is wearing thin. I have to take work home in order to get any development done. Has anyone else had the same experience or moved from this management crap back into dev? How is this seen on your CV/resume? I may have to take a pay cut but even that is better than this crap.
How many people do you manage? It sounds like you arent using your time efficiently because you should still be able to code a fair bit. Do the meetings only if its necessary for you to be there and only attend for the period you need to. Just leave after your input isnt needed. As for specs, pass those to your team to do. Dont forget, the code is the most important thing. Its the product. Its got to be good and on time. Anything that gets in the way of that can be binnned. And get HR to do their own damn work! :)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription