About Muslims
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Colin Davies wrote: If they were right, why do they have to keep blowing themselves up ? Don't you think you generalize a little too much ? After all, there are hundreds of millions of muslims across the World, and they don't blow up everything. I would rather say it's caused by a mix of poverty, intolerance and manipulation by extremists.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral. Antoine de Saint-Exupery (1900-1944)
KaЯl wrote: intolerance and manipulation by extremists. I hardly ever hear the term Militant Christian Extremist. Yet virtually everynight I hear of Militant Islamic Extremists. Why is that? And don't say it is my media, South Africa is PRO Palestine. I often hear our reporters scorning Bush and then praising someone like Gadafi for gods sake!
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul Watson -
KaЯl wrote: intolerance and manipulation by extremists. I hardly ever hear the term Militant Christian Extremist. Yet virtually everynight I hear of Militant Islamic Extremists. Why is that? And don't say it is my media, South Africa is PRO Palestine. I often hear our reporters scorning Bush and then praising someone like Gadafi for gods sake!
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul WatsonPaul Watson wrote: I hardly ever hear the term Militant Christian Extremist. Yet virtually everynight I hear of Militant Islamic Extremists. Go back five hundred years to end of the Tudor's reign in England and Militant Christian Extremists were very real and there were *lots* of them. But not all Christians were militant extremests though, not by a long shot. Now fast forward to the start of the 21st centurary and the same is true of Muslims.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
"Life, as well as software, has bugs." - Roger Wright
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Paul Watson wrote: I hardly ever hear the term Militant Christian Extremist. Yet virtually everynight I hear of Militant Islamic Extremists. Go back five hundred years to end of the Tudor's reign in England and Militant Christian Extremists were very real and there were *lots* of them. But not all Christians were militant extremests though, not by a long shot. Now fast forward to the start of the 21st centurary and the same is true of Muslims.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
"Life, as well as software, has bugs." - Roger Wright
David Wulff wrote: Go back five hundred years to end of the Tudor's reign in England and Militant Christian Extremists were very real and there were *lots* of them. But not all Christians were militant extremests though, not by a long shot. Now fast forward to the start of the 21st centurary and the same is true of Muslims. Ok some already threw the whole Crusades thing at me (not saying yours is, but the general idea) and I still do not see how that validates what is happening here and now. I know us European white folk did some terrible things. I am sorry for the 50 billionth time. Yes we are the root of all the worlds problems. Now that is sorted, why is there this surge of Islamic Extremists? What bee has gotten under their bonnets.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul Watson -
Are they just frustrated cyclists at heart ? If they were right, why do they have to keep blowing themselves up ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Colin Davies wrote: If they were right, why do they have to keep blowing themselves up ? Maybe because their religion/holy book have some phrases that can lead to some misinterpretation from a extremist point of view, things that we can´t find in the christians, budists, etc. religion/holy book. Mauricio Ritter - Brazil Sonorking now: 100.13560 MRitter "Th@ langwagje is screwed! It has if's but no end if's!! Stupid php cant even do butuns on forms! VISHAUL BASICS ARE THE FUTSHURE!" - Simon Walton
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Are they just frustrated cyclists at heart ? If they were right, why do they have to keep blowing themselves up ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
I think "muslim" should be turned into a sniglet. This would remove the ominous power it seems to hold over everyone that speaks the word. "muslim" : noun - the gathering of semi-viscous food stuff (jelly, mayonaise, etc) that gathers at the corners of children's mouths. conjugated verb - the act of preventing speech. Example: "Here's a sock. Go over to the prisoner and musl'im so he cain't talk." ------- signature starts "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio. ------- signature ends
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David Wulff wrote: Go back five hundred years to end of the Tudor's reign in England and Militant Christian Extremists were very real and there were *lots* of them. But not all Christians were militant extremests though, not by a long shot. Now fast forward to the start of the 21st centurary and the same is true of Muslims. Ok some already threw the whole Crusades thing at me (not saying yours is, but the general idea) and I still do not see how that validates what is happening here and now. I know us European white folk did some terrible things. I am sorry for the 50 billionth time. Yes we are the root of all the worlds problems. Now that is sorted, why is there this surge of Islamic Extremists? What bee has gotten under their bonnets.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul WatsonPaul Watson wrote: I still do not see how that validates what is happening here and now. It doesn't "validate it", not at all, but it didn't back then when the table were turned either. I only have a high-school knowledge of that period of history, and know basically it was to do with clashes between Christianity and Islam, but that is all, so maybe someone with a high level of understanding can chip in and tell us what the main driving forces behind them was? Paul Watson wrote: I know us European white folk did some terrible things. Merely as terrible as the rest, and all in the name of good intentions of our gods and countrys. Paul Watson wrote: Yes we are the root of all the worlds problems. Yes, we are; we are human. Paul Watson wrote: Now that is sorted, why is there this surge of Islamic Extremists? What bee has gotten under their bonnets. Oppression is the usual one is it not? We force our views on them and they don't want them, so people rise up and fight. It happens all over the world in every society and every country, and always has and will do. Good intentions; the mother of all feckups. :s Queen Lizzy the 1st summed it up perfectly when talking about Catholics and Protestants, though it is true for these purposes too: "There is only one Jesus Christ, the rest is a dispute over trifles".
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
"Life, as well as software, has bugs." - Roger Wright
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Colin Davies wrote: If they were right, why do they have to keep blowing themselves up ? Maybe because their religion/holy book have some phrases that can lead to some misinterpretation from a extremist point of view, things that we can´t find in the christians, budists, etc. religion/holy book. Mauricio Ritter - Brazil Sonorking now: 100.13560 MRitter "Th@ langwagje is screwed! It has if's but no end if's!! Stupid php cant even do butuns on forms! VISHAUL BASICS ARE THE FUTSHURE!" - Simon Walton
I don't think that applies - there are plenty open to misinterpretation in the Bible, from an extremist pov or otherwise. Indeed there is plenty being and that has been misinterpreted.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
"Life, as well as software, has bugs." - Roger Wright
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David Wulff wrote: Go back five hundred years to end of the Tudor's reign in England and Militant Christian Extremists were very real and there were *lots* of them. But not all Christians were militant extremests though, not by a long shot. Now fast forward to the start of the 21st centurary and the same is true of Muslims. Ok some already threw the whole Crusades thing at me (not saying yours is, but the general idea) and I still do not see how that validates what is happening here and now. I know us European white folk did some terrible things. I am sorry for the 50 billionth time. Yes we are the root of all the worlds problems. Now that is sorted, why is there this surge of Islamic Extremists? What bee has gotten under their bonnets.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul WatsonPaul Watson wrote: why is there this surge of Islamic Extremists? You have to take into account that their religion is quite "younger" than Christianity. In fact it's about 600 years younger. Islam is nowadays where Christianity was 600 years ago. Why am I still a bronze member?
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Colin Davies wrote: If they were right, why do they have to keep blowing themselves up ? Don't you think you generalize a little too much ? After all, there are hundreds of millions of muslims across the World, and they don't blow up everything. I would rather say it's caused by a mix of poverty, intolerance and manipulation by extremists.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral. Antoine de Saint-Exupery (1900-1944)
KaЯl wrote: caused by a mix of poverty and poverty's offspring - lack of education :(
"How many eiffel towers are there in Paris?" "I'd say 10." "Where was the Berlin Wall?" "Israel"
Stupid People - posted by Loket
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I don't think that applies - there are plenty open to misinterpretation in the Bible, from an extremist pov or otherwise. Indeed there is plenty being and that has been misinterpreted.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
"Life, as well as software, has bugs." - Roger Wright
Indeed. In fact, Catholics and Protestants differ on less than 1% of the Bibles teachings - rather than celebrate the 99% they have in common, they use the 1% they don't as a good excuse to kill each other. Unbelievable. I was in Glasgow recently and was amazed at the amount of sectarianism I witnessed. Isn't this the 21st century?
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
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Paul Watson wrote: why is there this surge of Islamic Extremists? You have to take into account that their religion is quite "younger" than Christianity. In fact it's about 600 years younger. Islam is nowadays where Christianity was 600 years ago. Why am I still a bronze member?
Francisco Viella wrote: You have to take into account that their religion is quite "younger" than Christianity. In fact it's about 600 years younger. Islam is nowadays where Christianity was 600 years ago. We should not be validating, basing, rationalising etc. based on 600 year old trend in another religion. If there is some kind of direct link then fine, but nobody has shown me it yet. Anyway, trend or not why is there this surge of Islamic Extremists?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul Watson -
I don't think that applies - there are plenty open to misinterpretation in the Bible, from an extremist pov or otherwise. Indeed there is plenty being and that has been misinterpreted.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
"Life, as well as software, has bugs." - Roger Wright
David Wulff wrote: I don't think that applies - there are plenty open to misinterpretation in the Bible, from an extremist pov or otherwise. Indeed there is plenty being and that has been misinterpreted. AFAIK, in the christians bible they state that justice will come by the hand of god (even if only in the judgement day). Maybe in the quoran they don´t have a statement like that, or they don´t make it clear (I don´t know the quoran... and not much of the bibli too) Mauricio Ritter - Brazil Sonorking now: 100.13560 MRitter "Th@ langwagje is screwed! It has if's but no end if's!! Stupid php cant even do butuns on forms! VISHAUL BASICS ARE THE FUTSHURE!" - Simon Walton
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Francisco Viella wrote: You have to take into account that their religion is quite "younger" than Christianity. In fact it's about 600 years younger. Islam is nowadays where Christianity was 600 years ago. We should not be validating, basing, rationalising etc. based on 600 year old trend in another religion. If there is some kind of direct link then fine, but nobody has shown me it yet. Anyway, trend or not why is there this surge of Islamic Extremists?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul WatsonPaul Watson wrote: Anyway, trend or not why is there this surge of Islamic Extremists? IMHO all this extremism in religions is just a "curtain", to cover the real economical and geographic interest (not a matter of belief)... to gain the people "support" they use the religion as an excuse. Mauricio Ritter - Brazil Sonorking now: 100.13560 MRitter "Th@ langwagje is screwed! It has if's but no end if's!! Stupid php cant even do butuns on forms! VISHAUL BASICS ARE THE FUTSHURE!" - Simon Walton
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KaЯl wrote: intolerance and manipulation by extremists. I hardly ever hear the term Militant Christian Extremist. Yet virtually everynight I hear of Militant Islamic Extremists. Why is that? And don't say it is my media, South Africa is PRO Palestine. I often hear our reporters scorning Bush and then praising someone like Gadafi for gods sake!
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul WatsonI hardly ever hear the term Militant Christian Extremist. Perhaps that term isn't applied by the Christian media, but don't the IRA, Quebecois, Branch Davidians (of Waco fame), National Liberation Front of Tripura (India), etc. qualify as Militant Christian Extremists?
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David Wulff wrote: Go back five hundred years to end of the Tudor's reign in England and Militant Christian Extremists were very real and there were *lots* of them. But not all Christians were militant extremests though, not by a long shot. Now fast forward to the start of the 21st centurary and the same is true of Muslims. Ok some already threw the whole Crusades thing at me (not saying yours is, but the general idea) and I still do not see how that validates what is happening here and now. I know us European white folk did some terrible things. I am sorry for the 50 billionth time. Yes we are the root of all the worlds problems. Now that is sorted, why is there this surge of Islamic Extremists? What bee has gotten under their bonnets.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul WatsonPaul Watson wrote: Now that is sorted, why is there this surge of Islamic Extremists? What bee has gotten under their bonnets. As much as the extremists hate being "interfered with", they also hate being ignored. "The folly of man is that he dreams of what he can never achieve rather than dream of what he can."
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David Wulff wrote: I don't think that applies - there are plenty open to misinterpretation in the Bible, from an extremist pov or otherwise. Indeed there is plenty being and that has been misinterpreted. AFAIK, in the christians bible they state that justice will come by the hand of god (even if only in the judgement day). Maybe in the quoran they don´t have a statement like that, or they don´t make it clear (I don´t know the quoran... and not much of the bibli too) Mauricio Ritter - Brazil Sonorking now: 100.13560 MRitter "Th@ langwagje is screwed! It has if's but no end if's!! Stupid php cant even do butuns on forms! VISHAUL BASICS ARE THE FUTSHURE!" - Simon Walton
AFAIK Islam too believes that you are judged by god, so: yes there would be. I can't imagine there not being that clause - it is one of the fundamentals of creating a sucessful religion - one that places judgement in the hands of a divine being or force you can't interfere with (physically, emotional, etc). If it wasn't for that clause, mainkind would long since have argued itself out of all the others.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
"Life, as well as software, has bugs." - Roger Wright
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KaЯl wrote: intolerance and manipulation by extremists. I hardly ever hear the term Militant Christian Extremist. Yet virtually everynight I hear of Militant Islamic Extremists. Why is that? And don't say it is my media, South Africa is PRO Palestine. I often hear our reporters scorning Bush and then praising someone like Gadafi for gods sake!
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul WatsonIn the 80's, when Scorcese Made the Last Temptation of Christ, a movie theater was bombed by christian integrits in Paris because it was playing this movie (22th October 1988, 1 dead). In the USA, I think remember some MD were killed by anti-abortionist extremists. It's not related to the Religion, just to the geopolitical situation and the mediatic coverage. About palestinians, are you sure they are all muslims? Aren't some of some christians too ? :confused:
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral. Antoine de Saint-Exupery (1900-1944)
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In the 80's, when Scorcese Made the Last Temptation of Christ, a movie theater was bombed by christian integrits in Paris because it was playing this movie (22th October 1988, 1 dead). In the USA, I think remember some MD were killed by anti-abortionist extremists. It's not related to the Religion, just to the geopolitical situation and the mediatic coverage. About palestinians, are you sure they are all muslims? Aren't some of some christians too ? :confused:
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral. Antoine de Saint-Exupery (1900-1944)
KaЯl wrote: About palestinians, are you sure they are all muslims? Aren't some of some christians too Yes I believe so. Probably some Buddhists, spiritualists, tree huggers and VB programmers in there as well. KaЯl wrote: It's not related to the Religion, just to the geopolitical situation and the mediatic coverage. So right now there are as many Christians causing trouble over land and politics as there are Muslims causing trouble? Whether they are under the banner of religion or not people are and always will be grouped. Plus they do declare it is based on their beliefs, whether they are misguided or not they still claim it and so their beliefs must be having some influence, even if it is twisted by preachers. There is something which has led to Muslims being the pre-dominant trouble causers of this time. Is that statement wrong?
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul Watson -
Are they just frustrated cyclists at heart ? If they were right, why do they have to keep blowing themselves up ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Nothing quite like generilasing and prejudice is there Colin ? Didn't know the IRA were muslims............ Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
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David Wulff wrote: Go back five hundred years to end of the Tudor's reign in England and Militant Christian Extremists were very real and there were *lots* of them. But not all Christians were militant extremests though, not by a long shot. Now fast forward to the start of the 21st centurary and the same is true of Muslims. Ok some already threw the whole Crusades thing at me (not saying yours is, but the general idea) and I still do not see how that validates what is happening here and now. I know us European white folk did some terrible things. I am sorry for the 50 billionth time. Yes we are the root of all the worlds problems. Now that is sorted, why is there this surge of Islamic Extremists? What bee has gotten under their bonnets.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul WatsonPaul Watson wrote: why is there this surge of Islamic Extremists? Perhaps: Corruption in government, and greater global awareness. If your government sucks and in general you live at some unacceptable level of poverty your pissed. All it takes is for a fanatical group to urge you to "join the fight for freedom". I'm sure if their were such leaders in China or even India, we might be in a similar predicament but looking at a different group of people. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
