Weekday Firearms Update - JSOP Behold
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What's crazy is that an AK 47 is actually cheaper than the pistols I have shot. I want to participate in competitive shooting and the only thing I am looking at is pistols.
The AK 47 is pretty much an Open source design manufactured with subtle variations by a number of countries. The improvements from each manufacturer feed back into the design improving the quality and the volumes produced keep the costs down.
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I went with one of my colleagues to a range during lunch. My colleague is a gun aficionado, he owns as many guns (if not more) as JSOP. The big question for me was whether to get a Glock or not. I shot a Glock 17, a Glock 19 and a Beretta PX4 storm. The lack of safety in the Glock made me decide to go against it though I think it shot better than the Beretta. I thought I almost made my mind, that my friend asked to to try a Sig 239. Now Sig 239 was easily the best pistol I might have ever shot. Lightweight, easy to shoot and good safety mechanism but the price was a shocker. So I came without making a decision. Next week, I will try a Springfield and a Smith and Wesson. I will probably make up my mind after my firearms training. But selecting the right pistol is more complex that selecting a right laptop. Also, I gained lot of respect for firearms in general and developed greater appreciation for firearm safety.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
firearm safety.
It's amazing how is this is so often over looked. Though I'm not a fire arms user, I still have ingrained from military trainging how to safely take apart a hand gun and rifle for cleaning purposes. Good luck with the hand gun training. Firing one of those weapons is truly exciting. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]
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What's crazy is that an AK 47 is actually cheaper than the pistols I have shot. I want to participate in competitive shooting and the only thing I am looking at is pistols.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
What's crazy is that an AK 47 is actually cheaper than the pistols I have shot. I want to participate in competitive shooting and the only thing I am looking at is pistols.
Yup, just like it's crazy that an eMachines desktop is cheaper and faster than a(n Atom based) Fujitsu Lifebook. :rolleyes:
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
What's crazy is that an AK 47 is actually cheaper than the pistols I have shot. I want to participate in competitive shooting and the only thing I am looking at is pistols.
Yup, just like it's crazy that an eMachines desktop is cheaper and faster than a(n Atom based) Fujitsu Lifebook. :rolleyes:
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
Dan Neely wrote:
an eMachines desktop is cheaper and faster than a(n Atom based) Fujitsu Lifebook.
:) Makes sense.
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
firearm safety.
It's amazing how is this is so often over looked. Though I'm not a fire arms user, I still have ingrained from military trainging how to safely take apart a hand gun and rifle for cleaning purposes. Good luck with the hand gun training. Firing one of those weapons is truly exciting. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]
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And a tad phallic?
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^]
You were right yesterday when you said you had a warped mind. :) Either that, or you've known some weird fellas. :laugh:
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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What's crazy is that an AK 47 is actually cheaper than the pistols I have shot. I want to participate in competitive shooting and the only thing I am looking at is pistols.
AK's are about as accurate as throwing a rock into the ocean. The only thing guaranteed is that you'll hit the ocean - somewhere. Benefit from my experience: You'll find that battle rifles are almost always less expensive than a decent pistol, and that goes for the AR-15. CDNN has S&W M&P15 rifles for anywhere from $600 to $800. Don't bother with Colt because you're paying for the name (adds $200-300 to the cost of the rifle) - not the rifle. No matter what you get, you want the following features on a AR: 0) Mil-spec flattop upper receiver with M4 feed ramps, forward assist, dust cover, and M16 BCG (with properly staked gas key) 1) Mil-spec *aluminum* lower receiver with H2 buffer and heavy duty action spring, and don't bother with a match trigger - they're touchy and can't take the punishment a standard fire control group can withstand. 2) Chrome lined 5.56 hammer-forged 16-inch barrel with M4 feed ramps, preferrably with a mid-length gas system 3) Mil-spec buffer tube 4) Six-position collapsible stock (Magpul or Tango-Down, or Cavalry Arms are decent) The mid-length gas system, when combined with the heavier M16 BCG, will reduce felt recoil and be eaiser on the rifle itself. You also get the added benefit of a slightly longer sight radius than you would have with a carbine gas system, improving *your* accuracy when using iron sights. If you can find one, get a rifle with no sights or optics on it. Also, don't get all hung up on hanging all kinds of "tacti-cool" crap off your handguard. It just adds weight and expense, and for your typical tactical competitions, a tactical light, laser, bipod, and vertical forward grip are essentially useless. Magzines are an important part of your AR. Do yourself a favor and use only Magpul PMags. They're polymer mads and their primary benefit is that they don't get dented (and thus become unsuable) when you accidently step on one. Also, get some 20-round mags too. Shooting from the bench is promenatic when all you have is 30-round magazines. Pistols: It sounds like you want a pistiol with a more traditional thumb safety. This means that pretty much every polymer-framed pistol is out of the running. My suggestion is to keep it simple, and get a full-size 1911. They are easy to field strip, easily customizable, and "accurate enough", even in their off-the-shelf configurations. The most important thing to do is to find a manufactuirer that has an unlimited lifetime warranty (most of the decent pistols have this). If you want to keep prices do
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I went with one of my colleagues to a range during lunch. My colleague is a gun aficionado, he owns as many guns (if not more) as JSOP. The big question for me was whether to get a Glock or not. I shot a Glock 17, a Glock 19 and a Beretta PX4 storm. The lack of safety in the Glock made me decide to go against it though I think it shot better than the Beretta. I thought I almost made my mind, that my friend asked to to try a Sig 239. Now Sig 239 was easily the best pistol I might have ever shot. Lightweight, easy to shoot and good safety mechanism but the price was a shocker. So I came without making a decision. Next week, I will try a Springfield and a Smith and Wesson. I will probably make up my mind after my firearms training. But selecting the right pistol is more complex that selecting a right laptop. Also, I gained lot of respect for firearms in general and developed greater appreciation for firearm safety.
Once you get a feel for the caliber you like, go to a gun show where you can fondle all kinds of pistols. The larger the caliber, the heavier you want your pistol to be. There's a thin line between properly balanced and being "top-heavy". Look at my other post regarding pistol selection. If you can, try out a proper 1911A1. I have a 1911 and a XD40 (both by Springfield), and I much prefer the 1911, but I'm equally accurate with both. You'll find that with the proper shooting stance and grip, you can accurate shoot ANY pistol you might have at hand, regardless of the weight, recoil, or other (usually falsely) perceived environmental conditions.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001 -
I went with one of my colleagues to a range during lunch. My colleague is a gun aficionado, he owns as many guns (if not more) as JSOP. The big question for me was whether to get a Glock or not. I shot a Glock 17, a Glock 19 and a Beretta PX4 storm. The lack of safety in the Glock made me decide to go against it though I think it shot better than the Beretta. I thought I almost made my mind, that my friend asked to to try a Sig 239. Now Sig 239 was easily the best pistol I might have ever shot. Lightweight, easy to shoot and good safety mechanism but the price was a shocker. So I came without making a decision. Next week, I will try a Springfield and a Smith and Wesson. I will probably make up my mind after my firearms training. But selecting the right pistol is more complex that selecting a right laptop. Also, I gained lot of respect for firearms in general and developed greater appreciation for firearm safety.
Well your odds of being killed by a firearm will go up considerably once you buy one (it's a statistical certainty) so you might want to contemplate really good life insurance while you're at it.
“If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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I went with one of my colleagues to a range during lunch. My colleague is a gun aficionado, he owns as many guns (if not more) as JSOP. The big question for me was whether to get a Glock or not. I shot a Glock 17, a Glock 19 and a Beretta PX4 storm. The lack of safety in the Glock made me decide to go against it though I think it shot better than the Beretta. I thought I almost made my mind, that my friend asked to to try a Sig 239. Now Sig 239 was easily the best pistol I might have ever shot. Lightweight, easy to shoot and good safety mechanism but the price was a shocker. So I came without making a decision. Next week, I will try a Springfield and a Smith and Wesson. I will probably make up my mind after my firearms training. But selecting the right pistol is more complex that selecting a right laptop. Also, I gained lot of respect for firearms in general and developed greater appreciation for firearm safety.
And while discussing guns... I have just purchased my first ever gun. Brand new Benelli Nova 12 ga. pump :cool: Can't wait to get out with hit. Hunting safety course this Sat (required for license). Then I'll run various loads for pattern testing, and then off to the woods (deer), swamp (bear), sound (ducks), and anywhere else I can find access rights :-D
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
AK 47 is actually cheaper
It is not only cheaper but is around 7 or 8 in the most powerful weapons list. And that is a deadly combination.
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's too late to stop reading it. My latest tip/trick Visit the Hindi forum here.
Abhinav S wrote:
around 7 or 8 in the most powerful weapons list.
Hardly. It's a decent deer rifle with an extra-long magazine. That, of course, makes it illegal to use for hunting, but it's fun to shoot. It's not particularly powerful, but the media hype about "assault weapons" makes it seem big and scary to people who don't shoot guns. :)
Will Rogers never met me.
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Well your odds of being killed by a firearm will go up considerably once you buy one (it's a statistical certainty) so you might want to contemplate really good life insurance while you're at it.
“If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
I agree. Holy crap John, we're agreeing on something. :) BTW, I'm surprised (and happy) to see someone from the "west" who doesn't feel the need for a firearm, and advises people against buying one.
There are some really weird people on this planet - MIM.
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I agree. Holy crap John, we're agreeing on something. :) BTW, I'm surprised (and happy) to see someone from the "west" who doesn't feel the need for a firearm, and advises people against buying one.
There are some really weird people on this planet - MIM.
Actually I'm from Canada which has a very different opinion of firearms from our neighbors to the south. You won't find many people here that think they need a firearm for personal safety from other people. From bears maybe depending on where you live but not from people. That being said I live in the country and have hunted and own a pellet rifle that we use on feral rabbits. I'm not against anyone who lives far away from me buying a firearm and doing whatever they want with it. If it doesn't affect me then have at it. All I was pointing out is the well known fact that statistically your chances in the U.S. of dying from a gunshot wound increase tremendously if you possess a firearm and keep it in your house.
“If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Actually I'm from Canada which has a very different opinion of firearms from our neighbors to the south. You won't find many people here that think they need a firearm for personal safety from other people. From bears maybe depending on where you live but not from people. That being said I live in the country and have hunted and own a pellet rifle that we use on feral rabbits. I'm not against anyone who lives far away from me buying a firearm and doing whatever they want with it. If it doesn't affect me then have at it. All I was pointing out is the well known fact that statistically your chances in the U.S. of dying from a gunshot wound increase tremendously if you possess a firearm and keep it in your house.
“If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Statistically, you stand a good chance of dying from a head injury as the result of stepping off a sidewalk the wrong way. 99% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001 -
And while discussing guns... I have just purchased my first ever gun. Brand new Benelli Nova 12 ga. pump :cool: Can't wait to get out with hit. Hunting safety course this Sat (required for license). Then I'll run various loads for pattern testing, and then off to the woods (deer), swamp (bear), sound (ducks), and anywhere else I can find access rights :-D
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AK's are about as accurate as throwing a rock into the ocean. The only thing guaranteed is that you'll hit the ocean - somewhere. Benefit from my experience: You'll find that battle rifles are almost always less expensive than a decent pistol, and that goes for the AR-15. CDNN has S&W M&P15 rifles for anywhere from $600 to $800. Don't bother with Colt because you're paying for the name (adds $200-300 to the cost of the rifle) - not the rifle. No matter what you get, you want the following features on a AR: 0) Mil-spec flattop upper receiver with M4 feed ramps, forward assist, dust cover, and M16 BCG (with properly staked gas key) 1) Mil-spec *aluminum* lower receiver with H2 buffer and heavy duty action spring, and don't bother with a match trigger - they're touchy and can't take the punishment a standard fire control group can withstand. 2) Chrome lined 5.56 hammer-forged 16-inch barrel with M4 feed ramps, preferrably with a mid-length gas system 3) Mil-spec buffer tube 4) Six-position collapsible stock (Magpul or Tango-Down, or Cavalry Arms are decent) The mid-length gas system, when combined with the heavier M16 BCG, will reduce felt recoil and be eaiser on the rifle itself. You also get the added benefit of a slightly longer sight radius than you would have with a carbine gas system, improving *your* accuracy when using iron sights. If you can find one, get a rifle with no sights or optics on it. Also, don't get all hung up on hanging all kinds of "tacti-cool" crap off your handguard. It just adds weight and expense, and for your typical tactical competitions, a tactical light, laser, bipod, and vertical forward grip are essentially useless. Magzines are an important part of your AR. Do yourself a favor and use only Magpul PMags. They're polymer mads and their primary benefit is that they don't get dented (and thus become unsuable) when you accidently step on one. Also, get some 20-round mags too. Shooting from the bench is promenatic when all you have is 30-round magazines. Pistols: It sounds like you want a pistiol with a more traditional thumb safety. This means that pretty much every polymer-framed pistol is out of the running. My suggestion is to keep it simple, and get a full-size 1911. They are easy to field strip, easily customizable, and "accurate enough", even in their off-the-shelf configurations. The most important thing to do is to find a manufactuirer that has an unlimited lifetime warranty (most of the decent pistols have this). If you want to keep prices do
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Well your odds of being killed by a firearm will go up considerably once you buy one (it's a statistical certainty) so you might want to contemplate really good life insurance while you're at it.
“If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
John C wrote:
Well your odds of being killed by a firearm will go up considerably once you buy one (it's a statistical certainty) so you might want to contemplate really good life insurance while you're at it.
I've had guns since I was 12, and there has always been one in whatever house I'm living in. I wonder when the statistics will catch up with me... A lot of people have owned guns or been around them all of their lives, and have died of nothing more nefarious than natural causes. I think your "statistics" claim is just parroting of anti-gunners' false logic and lame attempts at scare tactics. Here are some others: Oh my god! He's got a gun, so he must be mere seconds from going on a murdurous rampage! Look out! There's a gun on a shelf in the closet! It might jump down on its own and start busting a cap in someone's ass! OH NO! He's got an "assault" rifle! That's for killing people, not hunting! If we pass a law that outlaws handguns, then nobody will need them, because criminals won't have them! The Constitution says that only militia members can have guns, and everyone knows that militia members are skin heads and radicals! What were the founding fathers thinking!? If we allowed people to openly carry handguns, it would be like the wild west with shoot-outs at every intersection!
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001 -
John C wrote:
Well your odds of being killed by a firearm will go up considerably once you buy one (it's a statistical certainty) so you might want to contemplate really good life insurance while you're at it.
I've had guns since I was 12, and there has always been one in whatever house I'm living in. I wonder when the statistics will catch up with me... A lot of people have owned guns or been around them all of their lives, and have died of nothing more nefarious than natural causes. I think your "statistics" claim is just parroting of anti-gunners' false logic and lame attempts at scare tactics. Here are some others: Oh my god! He's got a gun, so he must be mere seconds from going on a murdurous rampage! Look out! There's a gun on a shelf in the closet! It might jump down on its own and start busting a cap in someone's ass! OH NO! He's got an "assault" rifle! That's for killing people, not hunting! If we pass a law that outlaws handguns, then nobody will need them, because criminals won't have them! The Constitution says that only militia members can have guns, and everyone knows that militia members are skin heads and radicals! What were the founding fathers thinking!? If we allowed people to openly carry handguns, it would be like the wild west with shoot-outs at every intersection!
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
The Constitution says that only militia members can have guns, and everyone knows that militia members are skin heads and radicals! What were the founding fathers thinking!?
I find this one particularly amusing since US Code defines the militia as including all men age 18-45(?); all men who served in the military age 18-60(65?); and, at their choice, women who served in the military age 18-60(65?). If you followed the only militia part to its illogical conclusion you'd essentially ban gun ownership for women while allowing a much larger chunk of men to continue to do so. That would almost be worth it just for the cognitive whiplash it'd give feminazi types. :laugh:
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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John C wrote:
Well your odds of being killed by a firearm will go up considerably once you buy one (it's a statistical certainty) so you might want to contemplate really good life insurance while you're at it.
I've had guns since I was 12, and there has always been one in whatever house I'm living in. I wonder when the statistics will catch up with me... A lot of people have owned guns or been around them all of their lives, and have died of nothing more nefarious than natural causes. I think your "statistics" claim is just parroting of anti-gunners' false logic and lame attempts at scare tactics. Here are some others: Oh my god! He's got a gun, so he must be mere seconds from going on a murdurous rampage! Look out! There's a gun on a shelf in the closet! It might jump down on its own and start busting a cap in someone's ass! OH NO! He's got an "assault" rifle! That's for killing people, not hunting! If we pass a law that outlaws handguns, then nobody will need them, because criminals won't have them! The Constitution says that only militia members can have guns, and everyone knows that militia members are skin heads and radicals! What were the founding fathers thinking!? If we allowed people to openly carry handguns, it would be like the wild west with shoot-outs at every intersection!
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001I honestly could not care less if U.S. citizens and anyone who lives far away from me have a fetish about firearms and they can do whatever they want with them including shooting at each other at will. :) I'm not anti-gun at all, I really enjoyed firing my buddie's Desert Eagle at the range and I was an avid hunter as a young lad and have taken the CORE hunting course here in Canada that makes me eligible to get an FAC to buy whatever weapon I wish. I just lost interest in hunting as I got older and to be honest it's a pain in the ass skinning a deer when you can just go buy tasty meat at the grocery store or local farm. I also think PETA is a terrorist organization who sponsors acts of terrorism and are a bunch of nut jobs who can also go suck a bag of dicks with the Apple computer company. :) That being said it's a long standing statistic that your odds of getting killed by a firearm are higher when you own firearms.
“If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
