For those developers that work for themselves...
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Can you give a few pointers on getting that first client? I am looking to go off on my own but really not sure if 'cold calling' is the way to get jobs or hit up my networks to see if anyone knows anyone that needs something. How many jobs would you hold at one time? Meaning, I would think one job would/could take me a few months to do (working 8+ hours on it). That alone doesn't seem like it would be enough to make a living but, taking on more than one project seems like I would constantly be working. Also, how did you set up payments for the project? Do you require a percentage down up front and the rest upon completion or bill them monthly based on hours worked? Thanks
Swelborn wrote:
Also, how did you set up payments for the project?
They pay me daily in trident layers. :laugh:
"I do not know with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones." Einstein "Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example." Mark Twain
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Here[^] is the first of a series of excellent articles you should read first IMO. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
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How that matches with you own experience (just curious)? :)
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles] -
Can you give a few pointers on getting that first client? I am looking to go off on my own but really not sure if 'cold calling' is the way to get jobs or hit up my networks to see if anyone knows anyone that needs something. How many jobs would you hold at one time? Meaning, I would think one job would/could take me a few months to do (working 8+ hours on it). That alone doesn't seem like it would be enough to make a living but, taking on more than one project seems like I would constantly be working. Also, how did you set up payments for the project? Do you require a percentage down up front and the rest upon completion or bill them monthly based on hours worked? Thanks
Getting a new customer its always difficult... try to sell to a better price only to companies that could be a reference for other companies in the future... or put better payment conditions... keep in mind that you will need to be able to get a money background, good knowledge and programming skills without good commercial skills or without economical background is a 100% failure situation after suffering a lot. Given the economical problems out there I would suggest you to organize the payments for achievements. I mean: organize the project in parts and get money after finishing each of the parts. This can help you even to track the status with your customer... depending on the kind of the project it can help you a lot. PS: Of course you must get an initial payment. PS2: A good text to be put in your quotations is "if the customer gets delayed in any of the payments the deadline of the project could not be accomplished". Good luck in your new adventure...
[www.tamelectromecanica.com] Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing.
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The easiest way to get started is to start small as an IC through recruiting firms building your skill set and in the mean-time building your cash base. With regard to making a living, the largest mistake most independents make is taking some amount per hour * 2080 and calling that a salary, use my Contractor Rate Calculator[^] to see what you should charge. I personally take on as many clients as possible and sometimes I have 4 active at a time. Usually one with a large project (40+ hours a week) and a few smaller ones at 2 or 3 hours a week (with a much higher rate). In the end I make a living but my tax return does not show me as the wealthy consultant my clients seem to think I am ... business expenses add up, fast! For small projects I have two payment options: 1) If I can control the source (ie, Windows forms, etc) I disable the app based on a date and bill standard terms NET 15. When the balance is paid and the project is finished I remove the lock and deliver the source. This is a good compromise. 2) For Web Based work on a client's server I require prepayment, period with no exceptions. For large projects with large corporations that are multimonth, I do whatever they ask. Unless you are awesome DO NOT BILL PROJECT, bill hourly.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
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The easiest way to get started is to start small as an IC through recruiting firms building your skill set and in the mean-time building your cash base. With regard to making a living, the largest mistake most independents make is taking some amount per hour * 2080 and calling that a salary, use my Contractor Rate Calculator[^] to see what you should charge. I personally take on as many clients as possible and sometimes I have 4 active at a time. Usually one with a large project (40+ hours a week) and a few smaller ones at 2 or 3 hours a week (with a much higher rate). In the end I make a living but my tax return does not show me as the wealthy consultant my clients seem to think I am ... business expenses add up, fast! For small projects I have two payment options: 1) If I can control the source (ie, Windows forms, etc) I disable the app based on a date and bill standard terms NET 15. When the balance is paid and the project is finished I remove the lock and deliver the source. This is a good compromise. 2) For Web Based work on a client's server I require prepayment, period with no exceptions. For large projects with large corporations that are multimonth, I do whatever they ask. Unless you are awesome DO NOT BILL PROJECT, bill hourly.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Unless you are awesome DO NOT BILL PROJECT, bill hourly.
I don't think I am particularly awesome, but unfortunately, none of my clients will accept hourly billing for projects - they want a lump sum. I do charge hourly for project design, but since I have had clients take my design and use it as a bid document, that is pretty important, and until you have a design, you can't price the project. For projects, I bill 30% to start work, 30% on delivery of a working prototype, and 30% on going into production. The last 10% is billed either 90 days after going into production, or after fixing the last known bug, whichever is the later. All my invoices are payable on presentation, and I have been known to clutter up a clients office for hours, waiting for my cheque - particularly if they have pretty secretaries. :) Most of my work is WinForms/DB/LOB stuff, an area I know pretty well, so I can do most of the coding while I am asleep, and just type it up in the morning. :-\ The drawbacks? Everybody wants it written in VB, because their "wife's cousin's brother in law knows Basic". :suss: Also I work from seven in the morning to eight at night - or I did, until I started posting in the lounge. :-O The compensations (even for VB.NET)? I live in a 200 year old house in a country village, with the stables converted into my office (25 metre commute), and I have a 15 metre yacht in the marina. VB RULEZ! :cool:
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How that matches with you own experience (just curious)? :)
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles]It matches very well, I agree with what Pete wrote, as well as with most of this thread. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, and improve readability.
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Contractor Rate Calculator[^]
45000€ ? Is there any point in going solo if you have to be paid that little ?
I had to pick a default. The system is interactive.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Unless you are awesome DO NOT BILL PROJECT, bill hourly.
I don't think I am particularly awesome, but unfortunately, none of my clients will accept hourly billing for projects - they want a lump sum. I do charge hourly for project design, but since I have had clients take my design and use it as a bid document, that is pretty important, and until you have a design, you can't price the project. For projects, I bill 30% to start work, 30% on delivery of a working prototype, and 30% on going into production. The last 10% is billed either 90 days after going into production, or after fixing the last known bug, whichever is the later. All my invoices are payable on presentation, and I have been known to clutter up a clients office for hours, waiting for my cheque - particularly if they have pretty secretaries. :) Most of my work is WinForms/DB/LOB stuff, an area I know pretty well, so I can do most of the coding while I am asleep, and just type it up in the morning. :-\ The drawbacks? Everybody wants it written in VB, because their "wife's cousin's brother in law knows Basic". :suss: Also I work from seven in the morning to eight at night - or I did, until I started posting in the lounge. :-O The compensations (even for VB.NET)? I live in a 200 year old house in a country village, with the stables converted into my office (25 metre commute), and I have a 15 metre yacht in the marina. VB RULEZ! :cool:
When I speak in absolutes I am generalizing. Project based billings are huge risks; warning novices seems like good advice.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
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I had to pick a default. The system is interactive.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
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I can't, it is a subtle advertising tool as well; People that see numbers think, that can't be right. Let me change it. It forces interaction and lets people understand my rate. Besides, If I put 100,000€ it would show up as like $145k real dollars.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
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I can't, it is a subtle advertising tool as well; People that see numbers think, that can't be right. Let me change it. It forces interaction and lets people understand my rate. Besides, If I put 100,000€ it would show up as like $145k real dollars.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
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When I speak in absolutes I am generalizing. Project based billings are huge risks; warning novices seems like good advice.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
You were quite right, too. I was just pointing out that lump-sum projects can work out, but you need to know your subject area pretty well, be prepared to work very long hours all the time, and be very hardnosed about getting payment. If you do screw up a price, then the only solution is to work even longer hours, and forget about weekends (and yes, I have had to do that before now). The other thing, which I didn't mention, is to make use of third-party tools, but build the price in. If these tools can reduce the amount of work, then part of the lump-sum price becomes fixed, and lowers the overall risk.
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It matches very well, I agree with what Pete wrote, as well as with most of this thread. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, and improve readability.
Thank you, Luc. Might be one day...(I never had the nerve). :)
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles] -
Can you give a few pointers on getting that first client? I am looking to go off on my own but really not sure if 'cold calling' is the way to get jobs or hit up my networks to see if anyone knows anyone that needs something. How many jobs would you hold at one time? Meaning, I would think one job would/could take me a few months to do (working 8+ hours on it). That alone doesn't seem like it would be enough to make a living but, taking on more than one project seems like I would constantly be working. Also, how did you set up payments for the project? Do you require a percentage down up front and the rest upon completion or bill them monthly based on hours worked? Thanks
Awesome replies everyone. Sorry it took so long to reply. I really appreciate the time and advice, which I will take to heart and hopefully be more prepared. Obviously it will take me a while to get everything in order for me to do this, but with your advice I can at least be a little more prepared. Kudos everyone, excellent thread.