Any interest in Oracle-related articles???
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* balantly self-promotion * My latest article: SQL Server DO's and DONT's[^]
LOL! I loved that article, Daniel but there are some things in oracle that change your outlook on a scenario. For instance, I have had occasion and reason to create what is called a bitmap index on a sex code field. Yeah, it was generally pointless for finding an individual, it is great for sorting and for specific scenarios where that distinction mattered. And consideering I was dealing with 20mil rows, tablescanning the whole thing would have been painful. Also, you didn't mention statistics. Creating an index is nice and all, but without statistics on the table/index the optimizer may not use it. oracle also has different optimizer modes compared to SQL Server. So, I think there may be a little call :) BTW, just so you know. I printed that article of yours and dropped it on 20 developers desks. I spent half the day explaining what most of the article meant! :wtf: Mark
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in my company i am responsible for creating a data service layer so no applications access our oracle database directly (they must either soap or dcom to our data services) ... our major point of conflict when designing this layer is whether most of the logic should be in the database (pl/sql packages), or in the com+ components ... the "oracle guys" think oracle should do all the work, and the com+ components should be very simple ... i personally think the opposite, move most of the logic to the com+ components what would your opinion be? thanks, john
That mentality is pretty common for 'oracle guys' (of whcih I'm one :) ). When you say Data Service layer, are you talking about business rules? how complex is it? If its fairly basic integrity enforcement type of stuff, use PL/SQL. However if its full blown logic, extract it out into another technology. PLSQL can do it but tends to bog down the more complex the package gets (this way lies Dynamic SQL :wtf:) If I'm not understanding what you are trying to do, let me know. Mark
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Sounds great. As well as that, and I'm quite serious, would be interested in what a DBA really does.:-D
Ok, I'll start thinking about topics this weekend :) What does a DBA do? Well, I've been told that DBa stands for Does Bull$#!% Alot :P Seriously though, most RDBMS's don't maintain themselves without a little guidance. SQL Server kinda spoils ya; It's install and go. Everyone else you have to worry about memory settings, disk allocations, planning. Generally I spend one to two hours a morning reviewing logs and dumped trace information for the database engine. After that, I take care of any requests (You'd be amazed how many developers can't deal with adding a column to a table that already has data in it). I also spend alot of time looking at the database as a whole looking for badly coded SQL (which there usually is alot of) and places where I can tune the system via structural changes like partitioning. Mark
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I'd certainly be very interested. I did a some work a few years back on VC++ apps which talked to an Oracle DB on HP-UX and found there was very little information available. I was most interested in the best method of accessing the data. In the end I opted for Oracle Objects For OLE because it has support for parameters and Stored Procedures whereas the ODBC driver didn't seem to. Cheers James
James Spibey wrote: In the end I opted for Oracle Objects For OLE I think this product is the best kept secret for C++ developers connecting to Oracle. I've been using it for years and the only negative is my code is not too portable. Chris Meech "what makes CP different is the people and sense of community, things people will only discover if they join up and join in." Christian Graus Nov 14, 2002.
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LOL! I loved that article, Daniel but there are some things in oracle that change your outlook on a scenario. For instance, I have had occasion and reason to create what is called a bitmap index on a sex code field. Yeah, it was generally pointless for finding an individual, it is great for sorting and for specific scenarios where that distinction mattered. And consideering I was dealing with 20mil rows, tablescanning the whole thing would have been painful. Also, you didn't mention statistics. Creating an index is nice and all, but without statistics on the table/index the optimizer may not use it. oracle also has different optimizer modes compared to SQL Server. So, I think there may be a little call :) BTW, just so you know. I printed that article of yours and dropped it on 20 developers desks. I spent half the day explaining what most of the article meant! :wtf: Mark
Mark Conger wrote: I loved that article, Daniel but there are some things in oracle that change your outlook on a scenario. I know, I'm making the transition now. BTW, an article of yours about this would be great! Mark Conger wrote: For instance, I have had occasion and reason to create what is called a bitmap index on a sex code field. In SQL Server 2k you have something like a "filtered index", too, so you can have an index only including male. It can achieve the same result, but there's more overhead. You can create indexes on views, too, but I never used that. Mark Conger wrote: BTW, just so you know. I printed that article of yours and dropped it on 20 developers desks. Thank you: I was quite depressed today about some things that are happening and I cannot make a difference. This has made me feel WAY better! My latest article: SQL Server DO's and DONT's[^]
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Mark Conger wrote: I loved that article, Daniel but there are some things in oracle that change your outlook on a scenario. I know, I'm making the transition now. BTW, an article of yours about this would be great! Mark Conger wrote: For instance, I have had occasion and reason to create what is called a bitmap index on a sex code field. In SQL Server 2k you have something like a "filtered index", too, so you can have an index only including male. It can achieve the same result, but there's more overhead. You can create indexes on views, too, but I never used that. Mark Conger wrote: BTW, just so you know. I printed that article of yours and dropped it on 20 developers desks. Thank you: I was quite depressed today about some things that are happening and I cannot make a difference. This has made me feel WAY better! My latest article: SQL Server DO's and DONT's[^]
I'll start thinking about some topics :) Daniel Turini wrote: In SQL Server 2k you have something like a "filtered index", Yeah, I forgot the filtered index was there. I've NEVER seen it used inn SQL server by anyone. Personally I think the index implementation in Sql server is kinda braindead Daniel Turini wrote: Thank you: I was quite depressed today about some things that are happening and I cannot make a difference. This has made me feel WAY better! Glad I could help!:-D I've had days like that. The only thing that bothered me is how often I had to actually explain what normalizing data meant. Mark
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James Spibey wrote: In the end I opted for Oracle Objects For OLE I think this product is the best kept secret for C++ developers connecting to Oracle. I've been using it for years and the only negative is my code is not too portable. Chris Meech "what makes CP different is the people and sense of community, things people will only discover if they join up and join in." Christian Graus Nov 14, 2002.
You must be using it after they got it working half way decently. I've heard its a bit of a resource pig, but what from Oracle isn't. I just wish all these different 'client's didnt require the normal SQL*Net client underneath. Mark
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I'll start thinking about some topics :) Daniel Turini wrote: In SQL Server 2k you have something like a "filtered index", Yeah, I forgot the filtered index was there. I've NEVER seen it used inn SQL server by anyone. Personally I think the index implementation in Sql server is kinda braindead Daniel Turini wrote: Thank you: I was quite depressed today about some things that are happening and I cannot make a difference. This has made me feel WAY better! Glad I could help!:-D I've had days like that. The only thing that bothered me is how often I had to actually explain what normalizing data meant. Mark
Mark Conger wrote: The only thing that bothered me is how often I had to actually explain what normalizing data meant. :omg: My latest article: SQL Server DO's and DONT's[^]
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Mark Conger wrote: The only thing that bothered me is how often I had to actually explain what normalizing data meant. :omg: My latest article: SQL Server DO's and DONT's[^]
More like.... :confused::wtf::confused: After a morning of that, my next sto was my boss to talk to the development groups boss about scheduleing SQL classes. In their defense, most of them are ex-COBOL programmers. What do you expect with someone whose been writing in that language for a while. rots da brain :) Mark
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More like.... :confused::wtf::confused: After a morning of that, my next sto was my boss to talk to the development groups boss about scheduleing SQL classes. In their defense, most of them are ex-COBOL programmers. What do you expect with someone whose been writing in that language for a while. rots da brain :) Mark
Mark Conger wrote: In their defense, most of them are ex-COBOL programmers. The worst people to get programming on SQL + OOP, IMHO. I often avoid COBOL programmers like hell, it's hard to change their mind. I only try it if they are 25 years old or less. And they usually don't mix well with other programmers, not because of COBOLers fault, but normally COBOLers are seen as vile even by VB programmers! Someday, maybe, I write a "Hiring staff: DO's and DONT's". I have lots of experience in it. Specially in the DONT's :) My latest article: SQL Server DO's and DONT's[^]
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Mark Conger wrote: In their defense, most of them are ex-COBOL programmers. The worst people to get programming on SQL + OOP, IMHO. I often avoid COBOL programmers like hell, it's hard to change their mind. I only try it if they are 25 years old or less. And they usually don't mix well with other programmers, not because of COBOLers fault, but normally COBOLers are seen as vile even by VB programmers! Someday, maybe, I write a "Hiring staff: DO's and DONT's". I have lots of experience in it. Specially in the DONT's :) My latest article: SQL Server DO's and DONT's[^]
Well, We have a bunch of COBOL proggies that have been doing this a long time (old HP3K system). You're right, they usually just don't get it most of the time. Mainly they need a best practices and tuning course. Mark
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That mentality is pretty common for 'oracle guys' (of whcih I'm one :) ). When you say Data Service layer, are you talking about business rules? how complex is it? If its fairly basic integrity enforcement type of stuff, use PL/SQL. However if its full blown logic, extract it out into another technology. PLSQL can do it but tends to bog down the more complex the package gets (this way lies Dynamic SQL :wtf:) If I'm not understanding what you are trying to do, let me know. Mark
our environment includes a very large oracle database which we use microsoft technologies to access (ado, oo4o, .net oracle provider) ... we want to wrap oracle so all applications must access it through our data service layer (mainly to isolate them from oracle changes) ... as far as business rules, corporate business rules will be included in our data services, but application specific data rules will be outside the data services the following diagram outlines (in a very simple way) two approached we were discussing http://www.lejuan5150.com/lejuan5150/media/dataAccessTier.jpg[^] hope this clears things up a bit ... thanks for your time
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You must be using it after they got it working half way decently. I've heard its a bit of a resource pig, but what from Oracle isn't. I just wish all these different 'client's didnt require the normal SQL*Net client underneath. Mark
There's no doubt that having to have the SQL*Net client installed, puts off a lot people. Perhaps I'm spoiled here at a bank where even the user's are on PC's with minimum 256M of memory along with 10G or 20G of hard drive space. Although when I first started at this project over 5 years ago, some of the code that I came upon was pretty atrocious from a resource point of view. InitInstance for a dialog opening a cursor to retrieve entire table(s) and lock them. Really silly stuff. Or the UI is designed to exactly match a table definition. I think version 7 of the library had some quirks but I've been on version 8 for about three years now and it's pretty solid. The whole database will be going to version 9 sometime next year. That migration should be fun. :) Chris Meech "what makes CP different is the people and sense of community, things people will only discover if they join up and join in." Christian Graus Nov 14, 2002.
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There's no doubt that having to have the SQL*Net client installed, puts off a lot people. Perhaps I'm spoiled here at a bank where even the user's are on PC's with minimum 256M of memory along with 10G or 20G of hard drive space. Although when I first started at this project over 5 years ago, some of the code that I came upon was pretty atrocious from a resource point of view. InitInstance for a dialog opening a cursor to retrieve entire table(s) and lock them. Really silly stuff. Or the UI is designed to exactly match a table definition. I think version 7 of the library had some quirks but I've been on version 8 for about three years now and it's pretty solid. The whole database will be going to version 9 sometime next year. That migration should be fun. :) Chris Meech "what makes CP different is the people and sense of community, things people will only discover if they join up and join in." Christian Graus Nov 14, 2002.
V7 was not pretty. I worked alot with it in relation to the Oracle Applications product which used it for some external utilities in accounting. I skipped v8.0 and next saw it in v8i/8.1 It seemed more reliable then, just a pain to install :) v9.2 Db is not much different than v8i. the really nice stuff is when you start using RAC clustering :) I built up a couplle Linux boxes with this and was surprised how easy it was. Not lieke the old Parallel server days. Mark Mark
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our environment includes a very large oracle database which we use microsoft technologies to access (ado, oo4o, .net oracle provider) ... we want to wrap oracle so all applications must access it through our data service layer (mainly to isolate them from oracle changes) ... as far as business rules, corporate business rules will be included in our data services, but application specific data rules will be outside the data services the following diagram outlines (in a very simple way) two approached we were discussing http://www.lejuan5150.com/lejuan5150/media/dataAccessTier.jpg[^] hope this clears things up a bit ... thanks for your time
hmm, ok.. So you want a central point for everyone to connect tup to so they can interop with the Oracle DB. Probably more liekly to do something liek COM+ for that or if you can set it up use a Web Service. Mark
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Ok, I'll start thinking about topics this weekend :) What does a DBA do? Well, I've been told that DBa stands for Does Bull$#!% Alot :P Seriously though, most RDBMS's don't maintain themselves without a little guidance. SQL Server kinda spoils ya; It's install and go. Everyone else you have to worry about memory settings, disk allocations, planning. Generally I spend one to two hours a morning reviewing logs and dumped trace information for the database engine. After that, I take care of any requests (You'd be amazed how many developers can't deal with adding a column to a table that already has data in it). I also spend alot of time looking at the database as a whole looking for badly coded SQL (which there usually is alot of) and places where I can tune the system via structural changes like partitioning. Mark
