Why VB?
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Just another developer with nothing in his toolbox but a hammer. :|
I prefer to think of it more as a high-end hammer drill - you can fit any extension you'll ever need on the end of it with relatively little trouble - a saw, a sanding disk, a polishing head, a drill bit, a screw bit, a breaker, an insustrial block cutter, etc, etc. Try drilling a hole with a screwdriver, or polishing a surface with a belt sander. However, if you're only going to be putting in screws then a screwdriver is all you need. [edit] I am putting the case where VB is the screwdriver and C++ the hammer drill btw, not vice versa :eek: [/edit]
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
"Life, as well as software, has bugs." - Roger Wright
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Rickard Andersson wrote: What is the use of VB actually?
- It's Quick.
- It's Dirty.
- It's Forgiving of Major Misunderstandings of how programming languages are Supposed to Work.
- It can be a great way to test COM controls.
- It can be safer to use if you're careless and don't know about C# or Java.
- It's built into the MS-Office apps (sorta) so you can do funky stuff to them if necessary.
- It *could* stand for "Vicious Buccaneers", which sounds sort of cool.
Shog9 ------
Sitting in muddy water isn't such a bad life, if it ends after the first time... - Yoko Kanno, The Real Folk Blues
Now you are trying to convince people that VB is worse off than Java? Harsh man... that's harsh...
- It's Quick. (Yes it is)
- It's Dirty. ??? It does not leave little ';' and '{' and '}' all over the place
- It's forgiving of Major (blah, blah, blah...) Works just fine for me...
- It can be a great way to test COM controls. Let's not for get BUILD them too!
- It can be safer to use (blah, blah, blah...) Some of us like C# too Java sucks!!!
- It's built into MS-Office apps Yeah baby!
- It *could* stand for "Vicious Buccaneers", which sounds sort of cool. Sorry... nothing whity to say about this one :(
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Now you are trying to convince people that VB is worse off than Java? Harsh man... that's harsh...
- It's Quick. (Yes it is)
- It's Dirty. ??? It does not leave little ';' and '{' and '}' all over the place
- It's forgiving of Major (blah, blah, blah...) Works just fine for me...
- It can be a great way to test COM controls. Let's not for get BUILD them too!
- It can be safer to use (blah, blah, blah...) Some of us like C# too Java sucks!!!
- It's built into MS-Office apps Yeah baby!
- It *could* stand for "Vicious Buccaneers", which sounds sort of cool. Sorry... nothing whity to say about this one :(
Ray Cassick wrote: Now you are trying to convince people that VB is worse off than Java? You need convincing?!? Ray Cassick wrote: Works just fine for me... Which was my point... ;P Ray Cassick wrote: Java sucks! Whoa, who's stuck with a one-tool box *now*? Ray Cassick wrote: Sorry... nothing whity to say about this one Damn whity, always keepin' me down... Shog9 ------
Sitting in muddy water isn't such a bad life, if it ends after the first time... - Yoko Kanno, The Real Folk Blues
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Rickard Andersson wrote: What is the use of VB actually?
- It's Quick.
- It's Dirty.
- It's Forgiving of Major Misunderstandings of how programming languages are Supposed to Work.
- It can be a great way to test COM controls.
- It can be safer to use if you're careless and don't know about C# or Java.
- It's built into the MS-Office apps (sorta) so you can do funky stuff to them if necessary.
- It *could* stand for "Vicious Buccaneers", which sounds sort of cool.
Shog9 ------
Sitting in muddy water isn't such a bad life, if it ends after the first time... - Yoko Kanno, The Real Folk Blues
While all of these points are correct, the last one is, I think, one that Microsoft have not cottoned on to. You should contact them. What about Vicarious Buttocks Voiciferous Bimbos Volcanic Breasts etc. ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Now you are trying to convince people that VB is worse off than Java? Harsh man... that's harsh...
- It's Quick. (Yes it is)
- It's Dirty. ??? It does not leave little ';' and '{' and '}' all over the place
- It's forgiving of Major (blah, blah, blah...) Works just fine for me...
- It can be a great way to test COM controls. Let's not for get BUILD them too!
- It can be safer to use (blah, blah, blah...) Some of us like C# too Java sucks!!!
- It's built into MS-Office apps Yeah baby!
- It *could* stand for "Vicious Buccaneers", which sounds sort of cool. Sorry... nothing whity to say about this one :(
Ray Cassick wrote: It does not leave little ';' and '{' and '}' all over the place True - the syntax is instead full of crap like 'end loop' and errors like 'cannot use brackets when calling a sub. The same function can be a sub OR a function, depending on if you grab the return value. Ray Cassick wrote: Works just fine for me... I guess that means it's forgiving any major errors in style and design - that's exactly the point. Not saying YOUR code is bad, but if it is, VB will probably let you off the hook. Ray Cassick wrote: Let's not for get BUILD them too! Why on EARTH would you build a COM component in VB ? Masochism ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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While all of these points are correct, the last one is, I think, one that Microsoft have not cottoned on to. You should contact them. What about Vicarious Buttocks Voiciferous Bimbos Volcanic Breasts etc. ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
Christian Graus wrote: Volcanic Breasts Ah, now there's something i could enjoy programming in... Christian Graus wrote: Voiciferous Bimbo Er, but isn't that what it actually stands for...? Shog9 ------
Sitting in muddy water isn't such a bad life, if it ends after the first time... - Yoko Kanno, The Real Folk Blues
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Ray Cassick wrote: Now you are trying to convince people that VB is worse off than Java? You need convincing?!? Ray Cassick wrote: Works just fine for me... Which was my point... ;P Ray Cassick wrote: Java sucks! Whoa, who's stuck with a one-tool box *now*? Ray Cassick wrote: Sorry... nothing whity to say about this one Damn whity, always keepin' me down... Shog9 ------
Sitting in muddy water isn't such a bad life, if it ends after the first time... - Yoko Kanno, The Real Folk Blues
Shog9 wrote: Damn whity, always keepin' me down... You're a class act, you know that ? :-) Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Ray Cassick wrote: Now you are trying to convince people that VB is worse off than Java? You need convincing?!? Ray Cassick wrote: Works just fine for me... Which was my point... ;P Ray Cassick wrote: Java sucks! Whoa, who's stuck with a one-tool box *now*? Ray Cassick wrote: Sorry... nothing whity to say about this one Damn whity, always keepin' me down... Shog9 ------
Sitting in muddy water isn't such a bad life, if it ends after the first time... - Yoko Kanno, The Real Folk Blues
Shog9 wrote: Whoa, who's stuck with a one-tool box *now*? Ok, I admit it... I hate Java. Always have, and always did. There, it's out of my system. Honestly, I just never really got to like it. I have spent my life programming in, C, C++, Pascal, Delphi, VB and COBOL (ech)... I can honestly say that I never needed Java.
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Shog9 wrote: Whoa, who's stuck with a one-tool box *now*? Ok, I admit it... I hate Java. Always have, and always did. There, it's out of my system. Honestly, I just never really got to like it. I have spent my life programming in, C, C++, Pascal, Delphi, VB and COBOL (ech)... I can honestly say that I never needed Java.
Stroustrup called Java a solution in need of a problem. I take it you're not taking up C# then ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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What is the use of VB actually? A programmer who don't want to be a serious programmer I would say! I looked at the syntax and even that sucks!! I HATE VB! Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
Rickard Andersson wrote: What is the use of VB actually It's good for tight deadlines, but forward planning should ensure that tight deadlines like that shouldn't be necessary. Unfortunately, we are human, and so end up with tight deadlines. Personally I find VB boring, but it is fast. In comparison I use Java for university (part time) and while I enjoy the syntax more because it is C-like, I would hate to have to work on a tight deadline using Java! :eek:
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages
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Rickard Andersson wrote: What is the use of VB actually?
- It's Quick.
- It's Dirty.
- It's Forgiving of Major Misunderstandings of how programming languages are Supposed to Work.
- It can be a great way to test COM controls.
- It can be safer to use if you're careless and don't know about C# or Java.
- It's built into the MS-Office apps (sorta) so you can do funky stuff to them if necessary.
- It *could* stand for "Vicious Buccaneers", which sounds sort of cool.
Shog9 ------
Sitting in muddy water isn't such a bad life, if it ends after the first time... - Yoko Kanno, The Real Folk Blues
Shog9 wrote: It's Quick. :wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf: And I've heard from so many plaxces that VB is so sloooooow!!! Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
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Rickard Andersson wrote: What is the use of VB actually It's good for tight deadlines, but forward planning should ensure that tight deadlines like that shouldn't be necessary. Unfortunately, we are human, and so end up with tight deadlines. Personally I find VB boring, but it is fast. In comparison I use Java for university (part time) and while I enjoy the syntax more because it is C-like, I would hate to have to work on a tight deadline using Java! :eek:
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages
But isn't better to build a stable and good quality program instead of a sucking one? :rolleyes: Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
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But isn't better to build a stable and good quality program instead of a sucking one? :rolleyes: Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
Simplistic and boring doesn't necessarily mean unstable. I don't enjoy working in it, but must admit it does have it's uses. As I've said before, there is no reason to use a jackhammer where a hammer and chisel would suffice. In fact, in certain cases, like archeology, the hammer and chisel are suddenly superior. :)
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages
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Shog9 wrote: It's Quick. :wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf: And I've heard from so many plaxces that VB is so sloooooow!!! Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
Rickard Andersson wrote: And I've heard from so many plaxces that VB is so sloooooow!!! Yeah, well... if i was more into cars, i'd do some analogy here comparing VB to one with an automatic transmission, and C++ to one with manual - but i'm not, so i'll just say straight out, C++ is faster if you know what you're doing, VB is good enough if you don't. Shog9 ------
Sitting in muddy water isn't such a bad life, if it ends after the first time... - Yoko Kanno, The Real Folk Blues
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Stroustrup called Java a solution in need of a problem. I take it you're not taking up C# then ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
I am learning C# simply because it is part of the VS.NET package and I am working with other developers on the same project that use it. I have been wokring in VB since V1, and lovbe what they have done with it in the .NET version. While VB.NET will still hold as my primary language I will ofcourse progress and learn others as well.
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I am learning C# simply because it is part of the VS.NET package and I am working with other developers on the same project that use it. I have been wokring in VB since V1, and lovbe what they have done with it in the .NET version. While VB.NET will still hold as my primary language I will ofcourse progress and learn others as well.
Ray Cassick wrote: I am learning C# simply because it is part of the VS.NET package I presumed otherwise because the syntax is so close to Java, which you hate :-) Ray Cassick wrote: I have been wokring in VB since V1, and lovbe what they have done with it in the .NET version. As a person on the other side of the fence, what do you see as different between C# and VB.NET ? It looks to me like the CLR allowed them to add all the features that have in the past made VB a toy language by their absence, and it looks to me like now they have offered this new CLR in an updated VB.NET, and in C#, which will take over when VB is retired in the next few years. I don't see what other reason there could be to have C# and not just upgrade V. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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Ray Cassick wrote: I am learning C# simply because it is part of the VS.NET package I presumed otherwise because the syntax is so close to Java, which you hate :-) Ray Cassick wrote: I have been wokring in VB since V1, and lovbe what they have done with it in the .NET version. As a person on the other side of the fence, what do you see as different between C# and VB.NET ? It looks to me like the CLR allowed them to add all the features that have in the past made VB a toy language by their absence, and it looks to me like now they have offered this new CLR in an updated VB.NET, and in C#, which will take over when VB is retired in the next few years. I don't see what other reason there could be to have C# and not just upgrade V. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
Christian Graus wrote: I presumed otherwise because the syntax is so close to Java, which you hate Hey, I want to stay employable :) I will learn what ever it takes to make me keep that. The differences between the two languages seem at this point merly a matter of formatting as far as I can see. There is that '{' and ';' thing :)... I am VERY disapointed in the C++ stuff. I was really looking forward to having the same forms editor for C++ stuff. The older MFC way usin gth eclass wizzard really always gave me a headache. I like the fact that in VB I can just use Textbox1.Text, but Noooooooo, in MFC I have to define a variable then do that pesky call to get the data form the control into the variable just to access the value. Seemed like a big waste of time to me. I am a bit afraid (for lack of a better word right now) that VB will soon dop the way of the Dinosaur now that C# is around. I do get the feeling that they are only keeping it around for the tons of VB developers that are hooked on it, and that they will eventually forgo the VB side for the C# side. If that happens that ok, I will follow. As far as hating Java goes, I used to hate C++ also, but now I find myself using it more as I learn more. I just have never had to USE Java at all, and always found the books (and lack of any great tools) disturbing. I also don't do any work that leaves the relm of Windows so I jave no real need for any cross platform stuff.
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Christian Graus wrote: I presumed otherwise because the syntax is so close to Java, which you hate Hey, I want to stay employable :) I will learn what ever it takes to make me keep that. The differences between the two languages seem at this point merly a matter of formatting as far as I can see. There is that '{' and ';' thing :)... I am VERY disapointed in the C++ stuff. I was really looking forward to having the same forms editor for C++ stuff. The older MFC way usin gth eclass wizzard really always gave me a headache. I like the fact that in VB I can just use Textbox1.Text, but Noooooooo, in MFC I have to define a variable then do that pesky call to get the data form the control into the variable just to access the value. Seemed like a big waste of time to me. I am a bit afraid (for lack of a better word right now) that VB will soon dop the way of the Dinosaur now that C# is around. I do get the feeling that they are only keeping it around for the tons of VB developers that are hooked on it, and that they will eventually forgo the VB side for the C# side. If that happens that ok, I will follow. As far as hating Java goes, I used to hate C++ also, but now I find myself using it more as I learn more. I just have never had to USE Java at all, and always found the books (and lack of any great tools) disturbing. I also don't do any work that leaves the relm of Windows so I jave no real need for any cross platform stuff.
Ray Cassick wrote: that they will eventually forgo the VB side for the C# side I am certain that is the case. Ray Cassick wrote: I just have never had to USE Java at all LOL. I bought all the books, but never found a use for it, either. I've never hated C++ though, but it was my first language on PC. I've learned a ton of BASIC dialects over the years prior. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
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What is the use of VB actually? A programmer who don't want to be a serious programmer I would say! I looked at the syntax and even that sucks!! I HATE VB! Rickard Andersson@Suza Computing C# and C++ programmer from SWEDEN! UIN: 50302279 E-Mail: nikado@pc.nu Speciality: I love C#, ASP.NET and C++!
To be fair to VB, it was the first commerical RAD tool. Now however, it should be allowed to die gracefully :suss: :rose: left on grave Elaine (mourning fluffy tigress) Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?