New bludgeon for humanity, Now GW is untrendy, its BIODIVERSITY!
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fat_boy wrote:
Holy crap. When are we going to put an end to this lunacy?
When pigs fly and you stop posting this crap here.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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Did you know mankind has created more species than he has directly wiped out?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
Joining the calls for evidence on this one, as I'd find it fascinating. Have we actually gone so far as to have created a new species? If so, do we have records of the speciation process? This is the kind of thing that evolutionary biologists would kill for last I knew. I thought we'd done it with fruit flies and a few thousand isolated generations, a few types of bacteria, but nothing higher than that. And for the remainder of it, just how many have we directly wiped out? I'm assuming this doesn't count things such as introducing invasive species, so the more well known cases like the Dodo wouldn't count. That'd be a fairly significant difference, despite humanity's involvement. Though I am aware we have domesticated many breeds, we haven't done much for nature in doing so, hell most of the critters we've domesticated will die off without us fairly quickly.
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Selective breeding of anaimals for agriculture is essentially husbandry and doesn't fall into the category of species creation. A Species can be defined as groups of actually or potentially interbreeding organisms that are reproductively isolated from other such groups. In other words, organisms are considered to belong to the same species if they can potentially reproduce with each other and have offspring that are healthy and fertile. Otherwise, they are considered to belong to different species. Hence breeds of domestic animals such as dogs, cats and cattle are one species within their own groups.... In general I've kept out of this argument as its almost religious in its fervour, however over the last 15 years as a diver I have see a marked alteration of what we can expect to see in and around the UK. We now see Sun Fish and Grey Triggers which can be classed as more tropical than not, Basking Sharks have moved further north. In more tropical climes I've seen a marked drop in both coral and reef fish in the Red Sea, and this is a region I visit anually. Now I'm not about to say what is causing this as there are several contributary factors, but we are loosing Biodiversity at quite a rapid rate.
Where did you dive in the UK? I used to live in Devon and there is some good diving there, on the incoming high tide at least. Used to see pipe fish, wrasse, the usual crab and lobsters. (Talking ten years back) Any way, if as you say sun fish amd grey tigers have come into our waters, isnt that an increase in biodivsity? ;) Look, I dont have a problem countering mans impact on the environment, but clearly from what I linked to you can see the kind of ramp up that is goung to make this the next brick bat. Yes, man has impacted other species, but holy crap, dont we know that? DOnt we actively try to maintain species that are close to extinciton? If we take THIS in to the same arena in kind) as GW then we will do more dmage than good to the remaining endangered species. We dont need this kind of BS. We dont need the hype, the alarmism, the conputer models. The second they greeny brigade start treating this subject the way they have CO2 then the sooner the world will switch off.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Joining the calls for evidence on this one, as I'd find it fascinating. Have we actually gone so far as to have created a new species? If so, do we have records of the speciation process? This is the kind of thing that evolutionary biologists would kill for last I knew. I thought we'd done it with fruit flies and a few thousand isolated generations, a few types of bacteria, but nothing higher than that. And for the remainder of it, just how many have we directly wiped out? I'm assuming this doesn't count things such as introducing invasive species, so the more well known cases like the Dodo wouldn't count. That'd be a fairly significant difference, despite humanity's involvement. Though I am aware we have domesticated many breeds, we haven't done much for nature in doing so, hell most of the critters we've domesticated will die off without us fairly quickly.
As you recognize, and you are in aminority, the use of the word 'intentional' is important. What I am getting at is that man has unintentionally killed many species. He has intentionally created many other, call them species or breeds or whatever you like, but, and here is the important thing: Man is today actively trying to maintain endangered species. With immense effort. THis is good, BUT if the greenies and the press start cludgoning us over the heads with it we will loose interest, the same way we did with GW. If they really cared about maintaining biodiversity they would NOT abuse it.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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fat_boy wrote:
Holy crap. When are we going to put an end to this lunacy?
When pigs fly and you stop posting this crap here.
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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I think the shithead needs his own forum, like CSS's 'Truthbox' (or whatever it's called). He'd get the respect he doubltess deserves there. :rolleyes:
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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Save me, Fat_Boy, Save me! Only you have the power to save us all. Thanks all the gods you've decided to spend your time here educating all us poor, poor deluded souls. Only you have the power and the knowledge. SAVE ME, FB!!!! SAVE ME!!!!
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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Oh, jesus, I can't pass that one up.... Hey, shithead!! Let's take a poll and find out who enjoys greater respect here, you or Ian. For intellect, for spelling, anything at all. I'll vote for Ian. How many do you think you'll get? Besides your own, that is. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: (Had to touch up the grammar - I was laughing too hard to get it right the first time.)
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
modified on Thursday, October 28, 2010 11:08 AM
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I thought raising heads was your hobby. Somehow related to your inability to see humor in farts, I believe; Josh seems to have nailed the source of your ... discomfort? with that subject.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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Provide a few names of species created by man as distinct from breeds.
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
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Joining the calls for evidence on this one, as I'd find it fascinating. Have we actually gone so far as to have created a new species? If so, do we have records of the speciation process? This is the kind of thing that evolutionary biologists would kill for last I knew. I thought we'd done it with fruit flies and a few thousand isolated generations, a few types of bacteria, but nothing higher than that. And for the remainder of it, just how many have we directly wiped out? I'm assuming this doesn't count things such as introducing invasive species, so the more well known cases like the Dodo wouldn't count. That'd be a fairly significant difference, despite humanity's involvement. Though I am aware we have domesticated many breeds, we haven't done much for nature in doing so, hell most of the critters we've domesticated will die off without us fairly quickly.
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Wheat, maize, tomatoes, potatoes.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
thats funny species :-\
As barmey as a sack of badgers Dude, if I knew what I was doing in life, I'd be rich, retired, dating a supermodel and laughing at the rest of you from the sidelines.
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thats funny species :-\
As barmey as a sack of badgers Dude, if I knew what I was doing in life, I'd be rich, retired, dating a supermodel and laughing at the rest of you from the sidelines.
Aparently the edible tomato is. The wild tomato, from which it was aparently bred, is a different species. As is the potato. Anyway, the discussion here is biodiversity. And regardless of whether you consider dogs as breds or species they are certainly more diverse than the grey wolf from which is the same species. So, my point is valid. Mankind has created more biodiversity than he has intentionally eradicated. He is also actively trying to maintain endangered species (and bring back extinct ones, the Quagga for example).
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
modified on Friday, October 29, 2010 7:00 AM
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Aparently the edible tomato is. The wild tomato, from which it was aparently bred, is a different species. As is the potato. Anyway, the discussion here is biodiversity. And regardless of whether you consider dogs as breds or species they are certainly more diverse than the grey wolf from which is the same species. So, my point is valid. Mankind has created more biodiversity than he has intentionally eradicated. He is also actively trying to maintain endangered species (and bring back extinct ones, the Quagga for example).
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
modified on Friday, October 29, 2010 7:00 AM
fat_boy wrote:
Mankind has created more biodiversity than he has intentionally eradicated.
How do you know how many species have been intentionally eradicated, how many have been unintentionally eradicated and how many created? Again, where is the evidence for numbers of species eradicated and created? Can you point me to some respected and accepted studies that at least provide some good estimates of the numbers involved?
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
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fat_boy wrote:
Mankind has created more biodiversity than he has intentionally eradicated.
How do you know how many species have been intentionally eradicated, how many have been unintentionally eradicated and how many created? Again, where is the evidence for numbers of species eradicated and created? Can you point me to some respected and accepted studies that at least provide some good estimates of the numbers involved?
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
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No, its just some stuff I read some time back. Doubt it exists on line.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
So there is no evidence to support your claim? As a committed supporter of scientific good practice, I assume you will now recant or at least withdraw the claim. :-D
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
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So there is no evidence to support your claim? As a committed supporter of scientific good practice, I assume you will now recant or at least withdraw the claim. :-D
Regards David R --------------------------------------------------------------- "Every program eventually becomes rococo, and then rubble." - Alan Perlis The only valid measurement of code quality: WTFs/minute.
I found some stuff on wiki about crops created by selective breeding resulting in new species but didnt find a comprehensive list. And yes, I could have been lying, but anyway, it shows that man has intentionally increased biodiversity as well as reduced it. :) And in anycase, the point of my post is that if they do to Biodiversity what they did to GW then its going to loose public support.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription