What's diff among developer and programmer?
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Not necessarily. Chutzpah, gall and sheer bloody minded cheek could count for a lot too.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
I charge an extra 25$/hr for cheek.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
Since I'm neither, I can give you an unbiased answer. A Developer does far more than just program. What your company gives you for a title means little, but if you have to analyze the problem, determine the requirements, allocate tasks among modules or between hardware and software, create the test plan, prepare the user documentation, meet with customers to discuss the project and the requirements, then you're a developer, whether you type code or not. If you receive a set of specs or requirements, have little influence over them, but are expected to deliver a piece of software that meets them, you're a programmer. As one who has done all of these in the past, and hired many others to do the same since, I think quite a lot of people in this profession are both developers and programmers, with different roles becoming dominant depending on the tasks assigned.
Will Rogers never met me.
Hmm, a fair summary - I think! 8)
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We have often used those terms, most of us have a degree in computer science, so whats makes the difference? Is that the working domain, expertise, passion?
In the various companies I've worked for, every one seems to use terms like these in a different way. In the first I was a 'consulting engineer', but that was mostly due to the fact I was working based on a kind of consultant contract and for tax reasons I couldn't have anything like 'software' in my title. In the second company people generally started off as 'software engineers', and would become 'system engineers' and then 'senior system engineers' after a time (provided they did show progress). Next company had none of these titles; programmers were just that, plus we had a 'head programmer', who was named that because he was basically leading the (rather small) department, not because he was so great at programming (he wasn't). Oh and we had a 'system architect' (me) - a term I know suspect they've picked up in one of those manager magazines and considered it a cool buzzword. From my experience I can tell nobody at that company ever understood what a system architect did. Instead they kept asking me to doing project leader tasks :doh: (which, I have to admit, I'm not that good at) Next company had a different take - they called everyone 'programmer', because they didn't want to make anyone feel to be 'set back' compared to the others. I still felt set back compared to people working at other companies though so I suppose that concept didn't quite work... Now I work in a two-person department in a manufacturing company, developing CAM software. So my title is CAM Software developer. Oh well, I suppose that's at least accurate...
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developer and programmer both are engineers :laugh:
I'll disagree to that too, I always thought it was a bit of a cheek calling ourselves software engineers. I always felt an engineer generally need to get things right the first time, where as software developers/programmers almost always have to compile or build there code to see what silly mistakes they have made.
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Shahriar Iqbal Chowdhury wrote:
most of us have a degree in computer science
I suspect you'll find most here don't. I don't.
Shahriar Iqbal Chowdhury wrote:
whats makes the difference
Sex appeal. Raw animal magnetism. Amazing prowess in the undercracker department.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
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We have often used those terms, most of us have a degree in computer science, so whats makes the difference? Is that the working domain, expertise, passion?
programmers turn specs into code, developers turn requirements into products.
Agh! Reality! My Archnemesis![^]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | WhoIncludes - Analyzing C++ include file hierarchy -
programmers turn specs into code, developers turn requirements into products.
Agh! Reality! My Archnemesis![^]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | WhoIncludes - Analyzing C++ include file hierarchyDevelopers smell nicer...
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Shahriar Iqbal Chowdhury wrote:
most of us have a degree in computer science
I suspect you'll find most here don't. I don't.
Shahriar Iqbal Chowdhury wrote:
whats makes the difference
Sex appeal. Raw animal magnetism. Amazing prowess in the undercracker department.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
Pete, just because I am curios. I do not have a degree in computer science also. I do not want to offend anyone, but my experience is, that the degree does not help much in programming. Or said in a different way, a degree in computer science helps for may be having a knowlegde about how to solve complex problems (separate into smaller ones, etc), may be a stronger knowlegde in math, but not necessarily in professional programming. If one does not start to program by himself, the study will not make a programmer (or developer? :-) ) out of him. Do you have the same experience? Holger
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In the various companies I've worked for, every one seems to use terms like these in a different way. In the first I was a 'consulting engineer', but that was mostly due to the fact I was working based on a kind of consultant contract and for tax reasons I couldn't have anything like 'software' in my title. In the second company people generally started off as 'software engineers', and would become 'system engineers' and then 'senior system engineers' after a time (provided they did show progress). Next company had none of these titles; programmers were just that, plus we had a 'head programmer', who was named that because he was basically leading the (rather small) department, not because he was so great at programming (he wasn't). Oh and we had a 'system architect' (me) - a term I know suspect they've picked up in one of those manager magazines and considered it a cool buzzword. From my experience I can tell nobody at that company ever understood what a system architect did. Instead they kept asking me to doing project leader tasks :doh: (which, I have to admit, I'm not that good at) Next company had a different take - they called everyone 'programmer', because they didn't want to make anyone feel to be 'set back' compared to the others. I still felt set back compared to people working at other companies though so I suppose that concept didn't quite work... Now I work in a two-person department in a manufacturing company, developing CAM software. So my title is CAM Software developer. Oh well, I suppose that's at least accurate...
It is all about having agreed upon definitions. Without agreement you simply can't compare things. Which is exactly what most corporations want. If they can take a lowly "code examiner" (mythical beast) and charge more for his services by simply renaming him "senior software analysist" then that is just good business and the buyer should beware (as always). Professional organizations exist for just this reason. You have the ACE (auto society of excellence) certs to do what? I have several and can tell you it does not begin to make that person a good auto mechanic. My former boss did charge the customers extra for my services though. He who controls the lexicon controls the thinking (and the amount of money charged) bill SOF imperative #2 Recognize political implications
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I'll disagree to that too, I always thought it was a bit of a cheek calling ourselves software engineers. I always felt an engineer generally need to get things right the first time, where as software developers/programmers almost always have to compile or build there code to see what silly mistakes they have made.
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programmers turn specs into code, developers turn requirements into products.
Agh! Reality! My Archnemesis![^]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | WhoIncludes - Analyzing C++ include file hierarchy -
I'll disagree to that too, I always thought it was a bit of a cheek calling ourselves software engineers. I always felt an engineer generally need to get things right the first time, where as software developers/programmers almost always have to compile or build there code to see what silly mistakes they have made.
I just started working with an Architect a few months ago and learned something about how titled Architects and Engineers feel about the IT field borrowing their titles. To have some fun, find your local architect (building, not software) and tell him that you're a Software Architect (even if you're not). Wait till you see him/her go bright red in the face. I've never held the position, but when he started our first conversation with, "Just tell me that you don't call yourself an architect...", I figured I had to. I still haven't told him... might never. :laugh: Mike Devenney null
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I make my own yoghurt (and no, that's not a euphemism).
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
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We have often used those terms, most of us have a degree in computer science, so whats makes the difference? Is that the working domain, expertise, passion?
Developers have bigger egos... :)
Steve Naidamast Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@ix.netcom.com
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We have often used those terms, most of us have a degree in computer science, so whats makes the difference? Is that the working domain, expertise, passion?
de•vel•op•er [ di vélləpər ] 1. somebody who develops: somebody or something that develops something. Synonyms: designer, creator, inventor, brains, maker, originator pro•gram•mer [ prṓ gràmmər ] 1. somebody programming computers: a writer of computer programs. Synonyms: computer operator, computer programmer, computer scientist, program writer, systems analyst, IT worker A programmer does what the developer tells him to do, an engineer does both. :) I too lack the CS, my background is in electronics.
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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Developers have bigger egos... :)
Steve Naidamast Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@ix.netcom.com
:laugh: Is that why they never go home? Head's too big to get through the door?
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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I'll disagree to that too, I always thought it was a bit of a cheek calling ourselves software engineers. I always felt an engineer generally need to get things right the first time, where as software developers/programmers almost always have to compile or build there code to see what silly mistakes they have made.
I am trained as an electronics engineer, but now work as a programmer/analyst. How many engineers get an email when they arrive at the office stating that the equipment they built last year needs an update by this afternoon? That is why developers need compilers and error checking. If engineers had similar tools, trust me, they would use them.
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:laugh: Is that why they never go home? Head's too big to get through the door?
It was broke, so I fixed it.
They grow these guys inside a cubicle and then they can't get out. Its all part of the master plan... :-)
Steve Naidamast Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@ix.netcom.com
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Not necessarily. Chutzpah, gall and sheer bloody minded cheek could count for a lot too.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
-
They grow these guys inside a cubicle and then they can't get out. Its all part of the master plan... :-)
Steve Naidamast Black Falcon Software, Inc. blackfalconsoftware@ix.netcom.com
And they feed them garbage like "You're indispensible and irreplaceable” and little "insert name here" certificates of appreciation. I was once given this line when I had some question concerning program flow, “Well basically, it’s very complicated". It took all I had to not spew the coffee in my mouth all over him from laughing. :laugh:”.
It was broke, so I fixed it.