Would a Game dev degree be worth it?
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I am currently studying a computer science degree in my first year, I am considering switching to a game development degree as the modules are more technical and exciting. The problem is that I am not sure if it will help my employment aspects when I finish the degree. I have heard that businesses such as Microsoft tend to recognise degree titles such as "Computer Science" as a more serious degree than a newly founded "Computing & Games Development". Also, I would like to be able to diversify my prospects of employment, such as being able to become a general purpose programmer or a game programmer. Having a games degree may help more with the latter option but would it be applicable concerning the former job title? Thanks ;)
Realistically, there aren't many game developers in the industry (as a matter of proportion). IMHO, you can become a game developer with a degreee in Computer Science, but might have a bit of a stigma in a business environment if you have a Bachelor of Games Development... Of course, that said, these things really only matter for the first few years, after that it's experience that counts! Good luck!!
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I am currently studying a computer science degree in my first year, I am considering switching to a game development degree as the modules are more technical and exciting. The problem is that I am not sure if it will help my employment aspects when I finish the degree. I have heard that businesses such as Microsoft tend to recognise degree titles such as "Computer Science" as a more serious degree than a newly founded "Computing & Games Development". Also, I would like to be able to diversify my prospects of employment, such as being able to become a general purpose programmer or a game programmer. Having a games degree may help more with the latter option but would it be applicable concerning the former job title? Thanks ;)
I suspect that game development degrees are a crock. I'd not be excited to find I was at a university that offered them, and I sure would not take them. What % of profitable software do you think is games ? What game is sold for more than 3 months at full price ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I suspect that game development degrees are a crock. I'd not be excited to find I was at a university that offered them, and I sure would not take them. What % of profitable software do you think is games ? What game is sold for more than 3 months at full price ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Apparently the game industry is overtaking the movie industry in terms of money making! However I do suspect there aren't many game developers around there... Mm... I wonder if those assertions above aren't conflicting...
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
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I suspect that game development degrees are a crock. I'd not be excited to find I was at a university that offered them, and I sure would not take them. What % of profitable software do you think is games ? What game is sold for more than 3 months at full price ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Yeah - and don't get into movies because it'll be on DVD before you know it! Physical Media Computer games sales were at $466 million per month (worldwide I think) which compares favourably with DVD sales I would imagine. I wonder why you suspect that game development degrees are "a crock"? From what I have seen, they offer good technical software development foundations, with (obviously) the emphasis on game development- so that can include AI, graphics (2d and 3d) algorithms etc. etc. etc. What has the duration of games on sale at full price got to do with the price of fish, anyhow? sounds like you're having a bad day, CG. Lighten up.
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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I am currently studying a computer science degree in my first year, I am considering switching to a game development degree as the modules are more technical and exciting. The problem is that I am not sure if it will help my employment aspects when I finish the degree. I have heard that businesses such as Microsoft tend to recognise degree titles such as "Computer Science" as a more serious degree than a newly founded "Computing & Games Development". Also, I would like to be able to diversify my prospects of employment, such as being able to become a general purpose programmer or a game programmer. Having a games degree may help more with the latter option but would it be applicable concerning the former job title? Thanks ;)
Probably not, but that shouldn't stop you.
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I am currently studying a computer science degree in my first year, I am considering switching to a game development degree as the modules are more technical and exciting. The problem is that I am not sure if it will help my employment aspects when I finish the degree. I have heard that businesses such as Microsoft tend to recognise degree titles such as "Computer Science" as a more serious degree than a newly founded "Computing & Games Development". Also, I would like to be able to diversify my prospects of employment, such as being able to become a general purpose programmer or a game programmer. Having a games degree may help more with the latter option but would it be applicable concerning the former job title? Thanks ;)
I think getting your first role post uni with a games degree will more limit your prospects to game companies than the other way around - but getting into games companies without some portfolio work will be hard too. Catch-22. Depending on the uni and the course, sometimes there may be local games companies involved - and it is here your game dev. prospects may lie. If you want to do game dev because you want to do it (not because you want to be sure of employment ) then I say go for it! worst case (unemployed post uni) you can always continue studying (finances permitting, obv.) and get a comp Sci or Software Dev degree or whatever. If you don't get the games degree, and go off into the land of commerce, it can be just as hard landing your first role, and you can be up against a larger number of graduates.
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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I am currently studying a computer science degree in my first year, I am considering switching to a game development degree as the modules are more technical and exciting. The problem is that I am not sure if it will help my employment aspects when I finish the degree. I have heard that businesses such as Microsoft tend to recognise degree titles such as "Computer Science" as a more serious degree than a newly founded "Computing & Games Development". Also, I would like to be able to diversify my prospects of employment, such as being able to become a general purpose programmer or a game programmer. Having a games degree may help more with the latter option but would it be applicable concerning the former job title? Thanks ;)
Why not take a double degree? What's the variance - 3 or 4 classes? Stick around for another term and take home two pieces of genuine imitation parchment! My first shot at college was for a double of Math and Physics - there were only 6 additional classes required to get both. But then I realized that I'd be doomed to a life of teaching Math and Physics. That was too dreadful a thought to bear, so I switched to Electrical and Electronics Engineering - a rather challenging 5-year program. In my third year the school announced that they wished to change the program to Electrical and Computer Engineering, a significantly watered-down program with all the hard classes eliminated. A few of us challenged them, and we got them to honor their agreement with us to continue offering the classes we needed to complete the degree we sign up for, but no new students were allowed to enroll in our program. A Game Development degree is similar to that BSECE I was offered - limited scope, and too little core stuff that really is the meat and potatoes of a real Computer Scientist's career. You severely limit your post-grad options if you settle for such a degree. But if it doesn't create too much hardship for you, take the extra classes and grab two degrees if you can. I think that will actually put you ahead of anyone holding either degree by itself. Good luck. I know it's a hard choice, and I'm delighted that I'm far too old to have many such hard choices left to make! :-D
Will Rogers never met me.
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I suspect that game development degrees are a crock. I'd not be excited to find I was at a university that offered them, and I sure would not take them. What % of profitable software do you think is games ? What game is sold for more than 3 months at full price ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
game development degrees are a crock
Thanks for the interesting reply :laugh: In comparison to the computer science degree I am currently taking it appears that some areas of the game dev programme are more technical! It appears that the game dev course has allot more software development and maths... There are some non technical subject such as "Computer Professional Ethics" however I have already done some of these already.
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Why not take a double degree? What's the variance - 3 or 4 classes? Stick around for another term and take home two pieces of genuine imitation parchment! My first shot at college was for a double of Math and Physics - there were only 6 additional classes required to get both. But then I realized that I'd be doomed to a life of teaching Math and Physics. That was too dreadful a thought to bear, so I switched to Electrical and Electronics Engineering - a rather challenging 5-year program. In my third year the school announced that they wished to change the program to Electrical and Computer Engineering, a significantly watered-down program with all the hard classes eliminated. A few of us challenged them, and we got them to honor their agreement with us to continue offering the classes we needed to complete the degree we sign up for, but no new students were allowed to enroll in our program. A Game Development degree is similar to that BSECE I was offered - limited scope, and too little core stuff that really is the meat and potatoes of a real Computer Scientist's career. You severely limit your post-grad options if you settle for such a degree. But if it doesn't create too much hardship for you, take the extra classes and grab two degrees if you can. I think that will actually put you ahead of anyone holding either degree by itself. Good luck. I know it's a hard choice, and I'm delighted that I'm far too old to have many such hard choices left to make! :-D
Will Rogers never met me.
Interesting
Roger Wright wrote:
double degree
I may have to ask someone in charge about this :P
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Yeah - and don't get into movies because it'll be on DVD before you know it! Physical Media Computer games sales were at $466 million per month (worldwide I think) which compares favourably with DVD sales I would imagine. I wonder why you suspect that game development degrees are "a crock"? From what I have seen, they offer good technical software development foundations, with (obviously) the emphasis on game development- so that can include AI, graphics (2d and 3d) algorithms etc. etc. etc. What has the duration of games on sale at full price got to do with the price of fish, anyhow? sounds like you're having a bad day, CG. Lighten up.
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
_Maxxx_ wrote:
Physical Media Computer games sales were at $466 million per month (worldwide I think) which compares favourably with DVD sales I would imagine.
Really ? From Wikipedia : According to market researcher DataMonitor, the size of the worldwide software industry in 2008 was US$ 303.8 billion, an increase of 6.5% compared to 2007. So, if this figure is true, that makes games worth about 5% of the world market. I know that gaming is hit far harder by piracy than business software, as well as games being less likely to have a long shelf life. Of course, my figures are for 2008, and the estimate they give for 2010 is US$ 457 billion, so I guess which year your figures are for, matters a lot in getting that percentage.
_Maxxx_ wrote:
I wonder why you suspect that game development degrees are "a crock"?
Because it seems to me to be an over specialisation. Why would you do a degree that ties you in to 5% of the market for software, instead of just learning to program ? I've worked on a wide variety of projects ( although I admit I have no degree at all ). I can't imagine having decided before I started exactly what subset of development I'd do my whole career.
_Maxxx_ wrote:
What has the duration of games on sale at full price got to do with the price of fish, anyhow?
Simply that if you write a game, and it's life is 3 months, and there's unlikely to be further development on that game, you're less likely to find a long term full time job writing games. At least, that's how it was when I knew people trying to get in to the field.
_Maxxx_ wrote:
sounds like you're having a bad day, CG. Lighten up.
It's nearly Xmas. Of course I'm having a bad day. I still think my comments hold water tho.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
game development degrees are a crock
Thanks for the interesting reply :laugh: In comparison to the computer science degree I am currently taking it appears that some areas of the game dev programme are more technical! It appears that the game dev course has allot more software development and maths... There are some non technical subject such as "Computer Professional Ethics" however I have already done some of these already.
Well, I guess it depends on the sort of course you're doing. Some 'Comp Sci' degrees have next to no programming in them, and instead waste your time with the sort of drivel you refer to. I don't have a degree, I just know people who do, so my experience on this is all second hand. I just don't see why you'd do a degree that announces that you're not eligible for 95% of jobs in the computing field.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Apparently the game industry is overtaking the movie industry in terms of money making! However I do suspect there aren't many game developers around there... Mm... I wonder if those assertions above aren't conflicting...
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
I suspect most games are actually half written from the start, with the purchasing of AI and 3D rendering engines at the onset.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I suspect most games are actually half written from the start, with the purchasing of AI and 3D rendering engines at the onset.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Most, perhaps. But not all. ;) I actually haven't heard of a generic AI engine used for various games. Is this a common concept?
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I suspect most games are actually half written from the start, with the purchasing of AI and 3D rendering engines at the onset.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
You very well might be right! Indeed a game developer complained once in a lounge that there is less and less programing work in game development! Although, every once in a while, a company makes a bit of R&D and comes up with a game changer, such as "The Witcher 2", "Divine Divinity 2: Flames of vengeance" and (I strongly suspect) "Crysis", to name a few!
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
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_Maxxx_ wrote:
Physical Media Computer games sales were at $466 million per month (worldwide I think) which compares favourably with DVD sales I would imagine.
Really ? From Wikipedia : According to market researcher DataMonitor, the size of the worldwide software industry in 2008 was US$ 303.8 billion, an increase of 6.5% compared to 2007. So, if this figure is true, that makes games worth about 5% of the world market. I know that gaming is hit far harder by piracy than business software, as well as games being less likely to have a long shelf life. Of course, my figures are for 2008, and the estimate they give for 2010 is US$ 457 billion, so I guess which year your figures are for, matters a lot in getting that percentage.
_Maxxx_ wrote:
I wonder why you suspect that game development degrees are "a crock"?
Because it seems to me to be an over specialisation. Why would you do a degree that ties you in to 5% of the market for software, instead of just learning to program ? I've worked on a wide variety of projects ( although I admit I have no degree at all ). I can't imagine having decided before I started exactly what subset of development I'd do my whole career.
_Maxxx_ wrote:
What has the duration of games on sale at full price got to do with the price of fish, anyhow?
Simply that if you write a game, and it's life is 3 months, and there's unlikely to be further development on that game, you're less likely to find a long term full time job writing games. At least, that's how it was when I knew people trying to get in to the field.
_Maxxx_ wrote:
sounds like you're having a bad day, CG. Lighten up.
It's nearly Xmas. Of course I'm having a bad day. I still think my comments hold water tho.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
Simply that if you write a game, and it's life is 3 months, and there's unlikely to be further development on that game, you're less likely to find a long term full time job writing games.
Not at the big companies like EA. You make one game and you move on to the next.
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Interesting
Roger Wright wrote:
double degree
I may have to ask someone in charge about this :P
Do so! At any reputable college, general classes will apply for credit on a second degree, most core courses will also apply, and some will fill electives for the second degree. At most, between two such closely related fields of major, there might be 6 classes you have to take to fulfill the requirements for both degrees.
Will Rogers never met me.
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Most, perhaps. But not all. ;) I actually haven't heard of a generic AI engine used for various games. Is this a common concept?
aspdotnetdev wrote:
I actually haven't heard of a generic AI engine used for various games.
Take the Quake Engine for example, look at the wiki page and you will see its GPL and there are a list of games that use it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_engine[^]
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I am currently studying a computer science degree in my first year, I am considering switching to a game development degree as the modules are more technical and exciting. The problem is that I am not sure if it will help my employment aspects when I finish the degree. I have heard that businesses such as Microsoft tend to recognise degree titles such as "Computer Science" as a more serious degree than a newly founded "Computing & Games Development". Also, I would like to be able to diversify my prospects of employment, such as being able to become a general purpose programmer or a game programmer. Having a games degree may help more with the latter option but would it be applicable concerning the former job title? Thanks ;)
If you want diversity... Get your C.S. degree, nobody will doubt what that is, and join a modding community on the side. Game degree or not, I think you will need some type of demo when you interview, and a modding background can help you decide if you enjoy it. You will likely have to specialize in action scripting, graphics modeling, level design, etc. If you want to work on a game engine, you'll probably also need a huge dose of math, so maybe minor in that too. I've seen some modding communities make great games. There are full blown retail games that are nothing more than mods built on a previous game engine.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Simply that if you write a game, and it's life is 3 months, and there's unlikely to be further development on that game, you're less likely to find a long term full time job writing games.
Not at the big companies like EA. You make one game and you move on to the next.
Wasn't there a huge kerfuffle a couple of years ago that EA were running a sweatshop type environment. I got the impression then that these big players are just using code monkeys and a formula. Still I agree with CG in that it does seems to be an over specialisation. I know we would not consider such a specialist but then I firmly embedded in corporate development.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I am currently studying a computer science degree in my first year, I am considering switching to a game development degree as the modules are more technical and exciting. The problem is that I am not sure if it will help my employment aspects when I finish the degree. I have heard that businesses such as Microsoft tend to recognise degree titles such as "Computer Science" as a more serious degree than a newly founded "Computing & Games Development". Also, I would like to be able to diversify my prospects of employment, such as being able to become a general purpose programmer or a game programmer. Having a games degree may help more with the latter option but would it be applicable concerning the former job title? Thanks ;)
I'd stick with Computer Science; I graduated a 'game developer' study, and I am still feeling the 'pain'. In this case it's just the title that hurts. I am not writing games in anyway, nor do I work at a game development company. Currently I am working on web applications (mostly asp.net), but when I first applied for the job, there was some excessive frowning when I said I had actual development experience in that area. Once you make the decision to make the bold move and work as a game developer, I strongly recommend taking some math classes, and really focus your coding to be more and more technical. Also, some experience with creating 3d animations with tools such as 3ds max and maya (does this still exist?) will really help I imagine. Because, let's be honest. Flash games are going down the tube in a few years. Hope this helps!
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