Re: Is science just a new religion ?
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and some form of engineering. Good call: knowledge with wisdom trumps all.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Pualee wrote:
many people reject whichever of the two they cannot comprehend
People don't just reject religion because they don't comprehend it, often they reject it because they do.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
-Or-
A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^]Gets my 5.
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together.
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KePilo wrote:
I mean even us programmers.. we are so isolated from the hardware and the networks that there is little we usually understand it goes like : that's the DB guy's job or that's the SAN guy call the storage group or now that's the Cloud.
Perhaps you need to study some more or meet some real techies?
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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Science and religion are both a search for truth. Unfortunately, many people reject whichever of the two they cannot comprehend... they should go hand in hand.
Religion is most definitely not a search for truth; it's a claim of dogma. Just like what you are doing.
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How science do we actually meet in everyday life.. technology is becoming closer to magic than science. For the man on the street there is little or no difference. I Arthur C Clarke again any sufficiently advanced form of tech is indistinguishable from magic ... I mean even us programmers.. we are so isolated from the hardware and the networks that there is little we usually understand it goes like : that's the DB guy's job or that's the SAN guy call the storage group or now that's the Cloud. The logic in religion held strong for 2000 years thinking "You're bad God gives gives you disabled children, sickness or if you're gay you die of some weird disease". I do not agree fully with the blog here: http://blog.aimonger.com/ but I think he makes a point. nice other article here too http://blog.aimonger.com/2010/10/11/the-beauty-of-beauty/ But they are too long. Wish I had time to read longer articles, they just are not so shallow but take time , lucky this is the lounge .. a break is a break after all !!
Technology isn't close to magic at all; it uses science. That you choose to be ignorant about that science doesn't make it magic.
KePilo wrote:
we are so isolated from the hardware and the networks that there is little we usually understand it goes like
Don't sit back and claim everyone else is ignorant because you choose to be. If you want to understand how networks work, you can easily learn. Anyone can. THAT is the difference from science and religion. That is the difference between technology and "magic". Anyone who claims that "science is the new religion" or "technology is magic" is being deliberately and purposefully ignorant.
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No, Science is not a religion. Science requires Questions and Disbelief and Intelligence, not unwavering faith and willingness to suspend common sense. Science changes as we learn more, religion falls into unchanging dogma. In science if you disagree you are asked to provide proof, in religion you are shunned or killed. Science requires proof and evidence, religion requires fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
Wow, prejudiced aren't we? Most of what you say about religion is the anti-religion dogma of "science". Science can become a "religion" so-to-speak when practiced in a dogmatic way. Witness all the garbage about Global Warming.
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Or when the data does not allow you to reach the conclusions your benefactor wanted you to reach, so you edit the data. If someone catches you, then you scream "infidel" rather than debate the matter on it's merits. ;P Is pure science a religion? No. As practiced now in most countries? Definitely borderline.
Charlie Gilley You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house. "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
You hit the nail on the head.
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Religion is most definitely not a search for truth; it's a claim of dogma. Just like what you are doing.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Religion is most definitely not a search for truth; it's a claim of dogma. Just like what you are doing.
What I wrote isn't dogma, it is not a religious claim... just my opinions. Likewise, the Bible (the basis my religion) isn't dogma either. There is evidence to backup what is says as well. It is a collection of histories that happened to people in the past, a record of what they said and did. It is verifiable by archaeology and historical documents from alternate sources (Roman Historians for instance). It is your choice to investigate it or not, and your choice again to determine if what the authors recorded have any value to your life. There are dogmatic religions and people who will abuse their positions of power (whether derived from religious or secular sourches), but these do not change truth.
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Religion is most definitely not a search for truth; it's a claim of dogma. Just like what you are doing.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Religion is most definitely not a search for trut
I don't agree. That's not been my experience.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Just like what you are doing.
I don't think he was dogmatic at all. He is stating a truism.
Fight Big Government:
http://obamacareclassaction.com/
http://obamacaretruth.org/ -
Or when the data does not allow you to reach the conclusions your benefactor wanted you to reach, so you edit the data. If someone catches you, then you scream "infidel" rather than debate the matter on it's merits. ;P Is pure science a religion? No. As practiced now in most countries? Definitely borderline.
Charlie Gilley You're going to tell me what I want to know, or I'm going to beat you to death in your own house. "Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783 “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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KePilo wrote:
we are so isolated from the hardware and the networks that there is little we usually understand
Speak for yourself! :laugh: Personally, I think everyone should be forced to do embedded assembler for a year or two - it gives a different perspective on what is actually going on... :laugh:
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together.
I worked 6 years embedded programming on SHARC(blackfin) Procs... So I do know !:) even then you use libraries written by others and lots of legacy / inherited code .. Having said that my point is that I'd like to see any common mortal debug all the way down to that level today !!! If you are working in ASP.NET 4.0 or ADO your mental stack overflows much faster than VS or JSP to Java. The isolation OSes provide and the complexity and diversity of the technology leave so much unknown that it greys out and fades to black the more abstract the type of work you are doing. Think writing apps for sharepoint (which I do today for a living) there so much undocumented I feel it's going on faith more than understanding ...
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Wow, prejudiced aren't we? Most of what you say about religion is the anti-religion dogma of "science". Science can become a "religion" so-to-speak when practiced in a dogmatic way. Witness all the garbage about Global Warming.
Fight Big Government:
http://obamacareclassaction.com/
http://obamacaretruth.org/ahmed zahmed wrote:
Witness all the garbage about Global Warming.
Maybe I'm wrong but I see those things as predictions and not exact science. Even wheather forcasts for two week in advance are not always accurate. But IT tehchnologies are exact. I mean 1 is not 0 it can't be 0, it will never be 0, it will always be one. As for software well in my opinion that has something to do with art too. Not just science. But in no way religion. Sure a guy may be anti MS or pro or anti Google or... But that is HIS/HER choice. It is no unique book of good things and bad things. You can choose. :)
All the best, Dan
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No, Science is not a religion. Science requires Questions and Disbelief and Intelligence, not unwavering faith and willingness to suspend common sense. Science changes as we learn more, religion falls into unchanging dogma. In science if you disagree you are asked to provide proof, in religion you are shunned or killed. Science requires proof and evidence, religion requires fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC League Table Link CCC Link[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
Science requires Questions and Disbelief and Intelligence, not unwavering faith and willingness to suspend common sense.
Except GW
Dalek Dave wrote:
Science changes as we learn more, religion falls into unchanging dogma.
Except GW
Dalek Dave wrote:
In science if you disagree you are asked to provide proof, in religion you are shunned or killed.
Except GW
Dalek Dave wrote:
Science requires proof and evidence, religion requires fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms.
Except Vatican Firemen...
"It is a remarkable fact that despite the worldwide expenditure of perhaps US$50 billion since 1990, and the efforts of tens of thousands of scientists worldwide, no human climate signal has yet been detected that is distinct from natural variation." Bob Carter, Research Professor of Geology, James Cook University, Townsville
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
Religion is most definitely not a search for trut
I don't agree. That's not been my experience.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Just like what you are doing.
I don't think he was dogmatic at all. He is stating a truism.
Fight Big Government:
http://obamacareclassaction.com/
http://obamacaretruth.org/ahmed zahmed wrote:
He is stating a truism.
The problem is that he wasn't. Just because you or I might agree with someone does not make what they say a truism.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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ahmed zahmed wrote:
He is stating a truism.
The problem is that he wasn't. Just because you or I might agree with someone does not make what they say a truism.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Henry Minute wrote:
The problem is that he wasn't
And just because you disagree doesn't mean the statement isn't a truism. Most philosophers would agree with the statement that both Science and Religion (true Religion) are a search for truth.
Fight Big Government:
http://obamacareclassaction.com/
http://obamacaretruth.org/ -
Henry Minute wrote:
The problem is that he wasn't
And just because you disagree doesn't mean the statement isn't a truism. Most philosophers would agree with the statement that both Science and Religion (true Religion) are a search for truth.
Fight Big Government:
http://obamacareclassaction.com/
http://obamacaretruth.org/ahmed zahmed wrote:
And just because you disagree doesn't mean the statement isn't a truism.
There you go again, misquoting people. I said "Just because you or I might agree....".
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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ahmed zahmed wrote:
And just because you disagree doesn't mean the statement isn't a truism.
There you go again, misquoting people. I said "Just because you or I might agree....".
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Henry Minute wrote:
The problem is that he wasn't.
Did you not post this? This statement indicates disagreement.
Fight Big Government:
http://obamacareclassaction.com/
http://obamacaretruth.org/ -
Henry Minute wrote:
The problem is that he wasn't.
Did you not post this? This statement indicates disagreement.
Fight Big Government:
http://obamacareclassaction.com/
http://obamacaretruth.org/Yes it does. It is however disagreement with your statement that it is a truism, not with what was said.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
Religion is most definitely not a search for truth; it's a claim of dogma. Just like what you are doing.
What I wrote isn't dogma, it is not a religious claim... just my opinions. Likewise, the Bible (the basis my religion) isn't dogma either. There is evidence to backup what is says as well. It is a collection of histories that happened to people in the past, a record of what they said and did. It is verifiable by archaeology and historical documents from alternate sources (Roman Historians for instance). It is your choice to investigate it or not, and your choice again to determine if what the authors recorded have any value to your life. There are dogmatic religions and people who will abuse their positions of power (whether derived from religious or secular sourches), but these do not change truth.
well said.
Fight Big Government:
http://obamacareclassaction.com/
http://obamacaretruth.org/
