Someone Explain DVD and PAL/NTSC

Lost User

So the MPEG2 data comes in two different flavors, PAL and NTSC. I was assuming that the MPEG2 standard was more fixed and the DVD player handled frame rate conversion/line resolution conversion (similar to VGA->NTSC converters). In theory shouldn't you be able to watch a PAL DVD on your computer because it already handles conversion of number of lines and refresh rates etc. Joel

voodoopriestess

Heya PAL - 720x576 @ 50Hz NTSC - 640x480 @ 60Hz DVD - Has frame sizes and frame rates encoded... I.e. MPEG-2 stream is 640x480@30fps or 720x576@25fps... Something like that! Some DVD players (multi-region ones normally) have PAL -> NTSC or NTSC -> PAL / PAL60 converters built in to accomodate this. Mine doesn't - I ahve a TV that has NTSC support and so takes raw NTSC from the DVD player with no complaints. Iain ---- "I would be careful in separating your weirdness, a good quirky quantum weirdness, from the disturbed weirdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories."

Mark Conger

I'm not aware of any encoding for NTSC or PAL on DVDs. they do have a Region encoding but its more of a copyright protection device. Basically your player can only pllay a certain region DVD (like Region 1 is US). the DVD player should be responsible for the D to A conversion to output it to PAL or NTSC. Isn't there some inconsistency in PAL implementation between certain countries??? I remember reading that somewhere but could never find some proof to back it up. Mark Conger Sonork:100.28396

Lost User

I found a New Zealand DVD that made a point of saying that it was region free but that it was PAL and not NTSC. I also found an FAQ that stated you cannot play a PAL DVD on an NTSC DVD/TV. I guess another question is, is it just the TV that's the problem. i.e. if I play a PAL DVD on my US DVD player and hook it up to a TV that accepts PAL then will it work? Joel

Christian Graus

I have a PAL DVD player, not multi region and a lot of local music DVD's get released in NTSC. Until I bought an NTSC capable TV, they played fine, but in black and white. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002

Jorgen Sigvardsson

Joel Matthias wrote: also found an FAQ that stated you cannot play a PAL DVD on an NTSC DVD/TV. I suspect that some cheaper DVD players have a fixed output frame rate and cannot adjust to the contents of the disc. I know that my Phillips DVD722 (I think it was the 722, not sure as I don't have it anymore) did both. Joel Matthias wrote: if I play a PAL DVD on my US DVD player and hook it up to a TV that accepts PAL then will it work? The reverse worked for me. -- If I had the ability to smooth talk like John Simmons, this post would be less sarcastic and more to the point.

Jorgen Sigvardsson

Ewww. watch out for the "converters". The quality is degraded heavily! A good DVD player outputs both signals without the use of converters. -- If I had the ability to smooth talk like John Simmons, this post would be less sarcastic and more to the point.

Jorgen Sigvardsson

The region code is just something Hollywood added to the spec. Good DVD players can be told ignore the region code. :) Mark Conger wrote: Isn't there some inconsistency in PAL implementation between certain countries??? Not only PAL suffers from version inflation. There are also a billion versions of SECAM (I know france used SECAM, dunno if they do still.. at least it was used heavily on satellite channels in the 80's/90's). There is at least another version NTSC - some japanese version. I'm just waiting for HDTV to be standardized properly.. -- If I had the ability to smooth talk like John Simmons, this post would be less sarcastic and more to the point.

voodoopriestess

Humm, Should have explained that better: Region 1 DVDs - NTSC to the TV Region 2 DVDs - PAL to the TV No converters involved at all... Iain ---- "I would be careful in separating your weirdness, a good quirky quantum weirdness, from the disturbed weirdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories."

Marc Clifton

Your TV was probably capable of adjusting to the different sync rates, but the color encoding in PAL is different too. I can't remember what though. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.

Lost User

"code free DVD players with no region lock, PAL-NTSC multisystem guaranteed to play multi region DVD Movies from all 6 regions. Pl. note that code free DVD players can not play PAL region DVDs on standard US TV (NTSC) or NTSC region DVDs on PAL TV. To do that a Multisystem TV is required" I found this on the following site: http://www.dvdoverseas.com/codefree_dvd.htm[^] My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

Christian Graus

It was an old TV, barely capable of playing PAL. The colour encoding is different, PAL is far superior to NTSC. I can see the difference when I play an NTSC DVD, and I have an expensive TV to play it on. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002

Lost User

http://www.dvdbuyingguide.com/codefreedvd/bigfaq.html[^] My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

Marc Clifton

Doesn't the lower frame rate of PAL (50hz) bother you? When I worked for an imaging company, we had PAL and NTSC cameras and I could always "see" the flicker. Yuck. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.

Jorgen Sigvardsson

I know what you were saying (believe it or not! ;)) voodoopriestess wrote: Region 1 DVDs - NTSC to the TV Region 2 DVDs - PAL to the TV I just wanted to clarify for the audience that this is the way to go. Converting players simply suck. -- If I had the ability to smooth talk like John Simmons, this post would be less sarcastic and more to the point.

Christian Graus

No, having the colours all screwed up is more what worries me. I've been watching PAL all my life, so it's probably subjective. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002

Jorgen Sigvardsson

Well, most newer PAL TV's are 100 hz, thus removing the flickering. The frame rate is still the same though. -- If I had the ability to smooth talk like John Simmons, this post would be less sarcastic and more to the point.

Sean Cundiff

DVD Region is an anti-piracy device. It has nothing to do with video format except that Region 1 is US/Canada and therefore NTSC (because NTSC is used in both Canada and the US). However, France and Germany are both Region 2. Germany uses the PAL video standard and France uses the SECAM video standard. -Sean ---- Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein. I saw a woman wearing a sweatshirt with 'Guess' on it. I said, "Thyroid problem?" -- Emo Philips. Love is two minutes, 52 seconds of squishing noises. -- Johnny Rotten.

Anders Molin

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I know that my Phillips DVD722 (I think it was the 722, not sure as I don't have it anymore) did both. I have a 722 and it can output both PAL and NTSC. - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"

Joe Woodbury

Just to clarify, NTSC is 525 lines per frame, PAL (and SECAM) 625 (there is a variant of PAL that runs at 60Hz and 525 lines per fram but will ignore that.) PAL DVDs are encoded as 720x576 and NTSC as 720x480. Also note that if you play a PAL encoded DVD on an NTSC television it will speed up by about 4%. This [probably] doesn't apply to progressive scan DVD players outputting to a digital monitor.