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  3. Someone Explain DVD and PAL/NTSC

Someone Explain DVD and PAL/NTSC

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  • M Marc Clifton

    Doesn't the lower frame rate of PAL (50hz) bother you? When I worked for an imaging company, we had PAL and NTSC cameras and I could always "see" the flicker. Yuck. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.

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    Jorgen Sigvardsson
    wrote on last edited by
    #19

    Well, most newer PAL TV's are 100 hz, thus removing the flickering. The frame rate is still the same though. -- If I had the ability to smooth talk like John Simmons, this post would be less sarcastic and more to the point.

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    • V voodoopriestess

      Humm, Should have explained that better: Region 1 DVDs - NTSC to the TV Region 2 DVDs - PAL to the TV No converters involved at all... Iain ---- "I would be careful in separating your weirdness, a good quirky quantum weirdness, from the disturbed weirdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories."

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      Sean Cundiff
      wrote on last edited by
      #20

      DVD Region is an anti-piracy device. It has nothing to do with video format except that Region 1 is US/Canada and therefore NTSC (because NTSC is used in both Canada and the US). However, France and Germany are both Region 2. Germany uses the PAL video standard and France uses the SECAM video standard. -Sean ---- Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein. I saw a woman wearing a sweatshirt with 'Guess' on it. I said, "Thyroid problem?" -- Emo Philips. Love is two minutes, 52 seconds of squishing noises. -- Johnny Rotten.

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      • J Jorgen Sigvardsson

        Joel Matthias wrote: also found an FAQ that stated you cannot play a PAL DVD on an NTSC DVD/TV. I suspect that some cheaper DVD players have a fixed output frame rate and cannot adjust to the contents of the disc. I know that my Phillips DVD722 (I think it was the 722, not sure as I don't have it anymore) did both. Joel Matthias wrote: if I play a PAL DVD on my US DVD player and hook it up to a TV that accepts PAL then will it work? The reverse worked for me. -- If I had the ability to smooth talk like John Simmons, this post would be less sarcastic and more to the point.

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        Anders Molin
        wrote on last edited by
        #21

        Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I know that my Phillips DVD722 (I think it was the 722, not sure as I don't have it anymore) did both. I have a 722 and it can output both PAL and NTSC. - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"

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        • V voodoopriestess

          Heya PAL - 720x576 @ 50Hz NTSC - 640x480 @ 60Hz DVD - Has frame sizes and frame rates encoded... I.e. MPEG-2 stream is 640x480@30fps or 720x576@25fps... Something like that! Some DVD players (multi-region ones normally) have PAL -> NTSC or NTSC -> PAL / PAL60 converters built in to accomodate this. Mine doesn't - I ahve a TV that has NTSC support and so takes raw NTSC from the DVD player with no complaints. Iain ---- "I would be careful in separating your weirdness, a good quirky quantum weirdness, from the disturbed weirdness of people who take pleasure from PVC sheep with fruit repositories."

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          Joe Woodbury
          wrote on last edited by
          #22

          Just to clarify, NTSC is 525 lines per frame, PAL (and SECAM) 625 (there is a variant of PAL that runs at 60Hz and 525 lines per fram but will ignore that.) PAL DVDs are encoded as 720x576 and NTSC as 720x480. Also note that if you play a PAL encoded DVD on an NTSC television it will speed up by about 4%. This [probably] doesn't apply to progressive scan DVD players outputting to a digital monitor.

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          • L Lost User

            Could somebody explain how a DVD can be encoded in PAL vs NTSC. A DVD contains MPEG-2 encoded video which is independent of PAL/NTSC, correct? The DVD player takes the MPEG-2 data and converts it into a PAL or NTSC video single correct? If all this is true then why can't you play all DVDs on all players (assuming the DVD has no region encoding). I'm curious as to what part of the above is correct/incorrect. Thanks - Joel

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            markkuk
            wrote on last edited by
            #23

            That's because some people incorrectly use "PAL" and "NTSC" to mean 625 line/25 fps and 525 line/30 fps standards. Actually PAL and NTSC are methods to encode color information in a way that's compatible with monochrome TV, so they apply only to composite video or broadcast TV signals. You are correct in stating that MPEG2 signal on DVDs is neither PAL nor NTSC encoded, but the difference in line count and frame rate remains. You should be able to play both kinds of DVDs if the region coding permits it, but all TVs can't sync to "foreign" frame rates.

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            • M Marc Clifton

              Doesn't the lower frame rate of PAL (50hz) bother you? When I worked for an imaging company, we had PAL and NTSC cameras and I could always "see" the flicker. Yuck. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.

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              Sean Cundiff
              wrote on last edited by
              #24

              It bothered me when I lived in Germany. I got used to it after a while. It sure made NTSC easier to look at when I got back to the US. I'll agree with Christian on the picture quality though. -Sean ---- Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein. I saw a woman wearing a sweatshirt with 'Guess' on it. I said, "Thyroid problem?" -- Emo Philips. Love is two minutes, 52 seconds of squishing noises. -- Johnny Rotten.

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              • M Marc Clifton

                Doesn't the lower frame rate of PAL (50hz) bother you? When I worked for an imaging company, we had PAL and NTSC cameras and I could always "see" the flicker. Yuck. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.

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                Lost User
                wrote on last edited by
                #25

                Your eyes are toooo sensitive. :-D My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

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                • C Christian Graus

                  It was an old TV, barely capable of playing PAL. The colour encoding is different, PAL is far superior to NTSC. I can see the difference when I play an NTSC DVD, and I have an expensive TV to play it on. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002

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                  Michael Dunn
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #26

                  Christian Graus wrote: The colour encoding is different, PAL is far superior to NTSC. NTSC == Never The Same Color ;) --Mike-- Thing #9 to say when mad at work: "Therapy is expensive. Popping bubble plastic is cheap. You choose." Just released - 1ClickPicGrabber - Grab & organize pictures from your favorite web pages, with 1 click! My really out-of-date homepage Sonork-100.19012 Acid_Helm

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                  • M markkuk

                    That's because some people incorrectly use "PAL" and "NTSC" to mean 625 line/25 fps and 525 line/30 fps standards. Actually PAL and NTSC are methods to encode color information in a way that's compatible with monochrome TV, so they apply only to composite video or broadcast TV signals. You are correct in stating that MPEG2 signal on DVDs is neither PAL nor NTSC encoded, but the difference in line count and frame rate remains. You should be able to play both kinds of DVDs if the region coding permits it, but all TVs can't sync to "foreign" frame rates.

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                    J Liss
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #27

                    PAL - PAL (Phase Alternating Line) is a video standard used in many countries around the world. Countries such as the United Kingdom, The Netherlands and more use PAL as their video standard. When a VHS, DVD or laserdisc is released using the PAL format it can have a maximum resolution up to 625 lines with a vertical frequency of 50Hz. There are different types of PAL standards, one of which uses a vertical frequency of 60Hz instead of 50Hz. NTSC - NTSC (National Television Ssystem Committee) is another video standard used in many countries around the world. While it's not technically superior, it's more widely used thanks to its use in the United States and a variety of other countries, such as Japan. When a VHS, DVD or laserdisc is released using the NTSC format it can have a maximum resolution up to 525 lines with a vertical frequency of 60hz. So can you play a PAL VHS, DVD or laserdisc on an NTSC TV? The answer is no. TVs are either NTSC capable, PAL capable or both. Unfortunately, nearly every TV in the United States is NTSC only. If you live in a country where PAL is the standard you can generally get a TV that is capable of both PAL and NTSC native playback. So you live in an NTSC country and you want to play a PAL DVD yar sol.;P

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                    • L Lost User

                      So the MPEG2 data comes in two different flavors, PAL and NTSC. I was assuming that the MPEG2 standard was more fixed and the DVD player handled frame rate conversion/line resolution conversion (similar to VGA->NTSC converters). In theory shouldn't you be able to watch a PAL DVD on your computer because it already handles conversion of number of lines and refresh rates etc. Joel

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                      Michael Dunn
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #28

                      Joel Matthias wrote: In theory shouldn't you be able to watch a PAL DVD on your computer because it already handles conversion of number of lines and refresh rates etc. I sure can. I have three seasons of Buffy and one of Angel, all PAL from the UK and they play fine with PowerDVD. --Mike-- Thing #9 to say when mad at work: "Therapy is expensive. Popping bubble plastic is cheap. You choose." Just released - 1ClickPicGrabber - Grab & organize pictures from your favorite web pages, with 1 click! My really out-of-date homepage Sonork-100.19012 Acid_Helm

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                      • M Michael Dunn

                        Joel Matthias wrote: In theory shouldn't you be able to watch a PAL DVD on your computer because it already handles conversion of number of lines and refresh rates etc. I sure can. I have three seasons of Buffy and one of Angel, all PAL from the UK and they play fine with PowerDVD. --Mike-- Thing #9 to say when mad at work: "Therapy is expensive. Popping bubble plastic is cheap. You choose." Just released - 1ClickPicGrabber - Grab & organize pictures from your favorite web pages, with 1 click! My really out-of-date homepage Sonork-100.19012 Acid_Helm

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                        Richard Jones
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #29

                        Michael Dunn wrote: I have three seasons of Buffy Ohhhh, man I have been searching for months for anything besides season 1&2. Are there more available down there? I notice you said from the UK, did you order them? Thx

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                        • R Richard Jones

                          Michael Dunn wrote: I have three seasons of Buffy Ohhhh, man I have been searching for months for anything besides season 1&2. Are there more available down there? I notice you said from the UK, did you order them? Thx

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                          Michael Dunn
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #30

                          In the US we only have 1 and 2, and no Angel at all yet. I order from DVDstreet[^] and they have been excellent. Just be sure that you can play region 2 DVDs. --Mike-- "Adventure. Excitement. A Jedi craves not these things."   -- Silent Bob 1ClickPicGrabber - Grab & organize pictures from your favorite web pages, with 1 click! My really out-of-date homepage Sonork-100.19012 Acid_Helm

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