VB kicks C++'s arse
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OK now that i've got your attention... :jig::bob::jig::bob::jig::bob::jig::bob: I saw my first Green Godess yesterday. (the army fire trucks here in the UK) and today I saw the local firefighters decorating thier picket lines for christmas. Personally i felt like driving the car right into the lot of them. (I'm a learner so i'd just say i paniced :-)) DO SOME BLEEDING WORK! There may have been a thread about the firestrike already but i'm now expressing my views here. WHY THE HELL ARN'T I PAYED £30,000 per annum, when you look at the facts they don't do all that much work and they are payed whilst sleeping? Why should they get £30,000 when I'll leave University with masses of government debt to pay off? Why should they be on that salary when they only need two O-Levels and a Budgie to do that job. I give full credit to the Army, they are making the best out of a crap situation they are in and i'd toot my car horn at them over the striking firemen any day (however they may think i'm being a prick for sounding my horn at them for no reason) Plus why is the Fire Service allowed to strike? IMHO no emergency service should be allowed to strike, AFAIK the police aren't allowed to.
We brought out this new and very similar version of our expensive software because the old version was......old....It's a good enough excuse for Microsoft so its fine for us.
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OK now that i've got your attention... :jig::bob::jig::bob::jig::bob::jig::bob: I saw my first Green Godess yesterday. (the army fire trucks here in the UK) and today I saw the local firefighters decorating thier picket lines for christmas. Personally i felt like driving the car right into the lot of them. (I'm a learner so i'd just say i paniced :-)) DO SOME BLEEDING WORK! There may have been a thread about the firestrike already but i'm now expressing my views here. WHY THE HELL ARN'T I PAYED £30,000 per annum, when you look at the facts they don't do all that much work and they are payed whilst sleeping? Why should they get £30,000 when I'll leave University with masses of government debt to pay off? Why should they be on that salary when they only need two O-Levels and a Budgie to do that job. I give full credit to the Army, they are making the best out of a crap situation they are in and i'd toot my car horn at them over the striking firemen any day (however they may think i'm being a prick for sounding my horn at them for no reason) Plus why is the Fire Service allowed to strike? IMHO no emergency service should be allowed to strike, AFAIK the police aren't allowed to.
We brought out this new and very similar version of our expensive software because the old version was......old....It's a good enough excuse for Microsoft so its fine for us.
If the job is so fantastic, so, become a fireman.
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
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OK now that i've got your attention... :jig::bob::jig::bob::jig::bob::jig::bob: I saw my first Green Godess yesterday. (the army fire trucks here in the UK) and today I saw the local firefighters decorating thier picket lines for christmas. Personally i felt like driving the car right into the lot of them. (I'm a learner so i'd just say i paniced :-)) DO SOME BLEEDING WORK! There may have been a thread about the firestrike already but i'm now expressing my views here. WHY THE HELL ARN'T I PAYED £30,000 per annum, when you look at the facts they don't do all that much work and they are payed whilst sleeping? Why should they get £30,000 when I'll leave University with masses of government debt to pay off? Why should they be on that salary when they only need two O-Levels and a Budgie to do that job. I give full credit to the Army, they are making the best out of a crap situation they are in and i'd toot my car horn at them over the striking firemen any day (however they may think i'm being a prick for sounding my horn at them for no reason) Plus why is the Fire Service allowed to strike? IMHO no emergency service should be allowed to strike, AFAIK the police aren't allowed to.
We brought out this new and very similar version of our expensive software because the old version was......old....It's a good enough excuse for Microsoft so its fine for us.
Jonny Newman wrote: WHY THE HELL ARN'T I PAYED £30,000 per annum, when you look at the facts they don't do all that much work and they are payed whilst sleeping? I don't know what you're studying but I would guess that it doesn't involve any risk to your life. Jonny Newman wrote: Plus why is the Fire Service allowed to strike? IMHO no emergency service should be allowed to strike, AFAIK the police aren't allowed to. It's pretty bad when emergency services strike but the fact is that we don't treat them too well. If you consider the crap that they have to deal with - scraping bits of people off the roads, putting out fires, dealing with armed criminals - day in, day out, we don't pay them anywhere NEAR enough.
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OK now that i've got your attention... :jig::bob::jig::bob::jig::bob::jig::bob: I saw my first Green Godess yesterday. (the army fire trucks here in the UK) and today I saw the local firefighters decorating thier picket lines for christmas. Personally i felt like driving the car right into the lot of them. (I'm a learner so i'd just say i paniced :-)) DO SOME BLEEDING WORK! There may have been a thread about the firestrike already but i'm now expressing my views here. WHY THE HELL ARN'T I PAYED £30,000 per annum, when you look at the facts they don't do all that much work and they are payed whilst sleeping? Why should they get £30,000 when I'll leave University with masses of government debt to pay off? Why should they be on that salary when they only need two O-Levels and a Budgie to do that job. I give full credit to the Army, they are making the best out of a crap situation they are in and i'd toot my car horn at them over the striking firemen any day (however they may think i'm being a prick for sounding my horn at them for no reason) Plus why is the Fire Service allowed to strike? IMHO no emergency service should be allowed to strike, AFAIK the police aren't allowed to.
We brought out this new and very similar version of our expensive software because the old version was......old....It's a good enough excuse for Microsoft so its fine for us.
Locally the fireservice earn just over £10,000 *more* that the average regional wage for similarly skilled workers. Ten grand more! I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. Last year a group of local firefighters left the FBU (the union causing all the fuss) over a disagreement (the FBU didn't want figherfighters to be trained to use and equipped with "defiblirators" (or whatever you call them) as that was a paramedics job). These men are still working through the strike alongside the armed forces as they, together with 90% of the country, believe the strikers to be grossly putting lives in danger and abusing their possition. These men now face a daily assault of cat calling and verbal abuse when they cross the picket line to go on watch. They are called "wimps", "disappointments", "you should be ashamed of yourselves" from the wimps, disappointments and stricking FBU members who should be ashamed of *themselves*. It's truely sickening. One person has already "converted" and joined the picket line due to the pressure. These are braver men then the union members are and they are being treated like child molestors. F**king sickening. On a brighter note an arsonist tried to burn down a striking firefighters house with his wife and children asleep upstairs. No-one was hurt and the wife managed to hose down the fire herself before the army arrived, and whilst I will never condone an act like this, it just goes to show the irony of it all.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
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Locally the fireservice earn just over £10,000 *more* that the average regional wage for similarly skilled workers. Ten grand more! I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. Last year a group of local firefighters left the FBU (the union causing all the fuss) over a disagreement (the FBU didn't want figherfighters to be trained to use and equipped with "defiblirators" (or whatever you call them) as that was a paramedics job). These men are still working through the strike alongside the armed forces as they, together with 90% of the country, believe the strikers to be grossly putting lives in danger and abusing their possition. These men now face a daily assault of cat calling and verbal abuse when they cross the picket line to go on watch. They are called "wimps", "disappointments", "you should be ashamed of yourselves" from the wimps, disappointments and stricking FBU members who should be ashamed of *themselves*. It's truely sickening. One person has already "converted" and joined the picket line due to the pressure. These are braver men then the union members are and they are being treated like child molestors. F**king sickening. On a brighter note an arsonist tried to burn down a striking firefighters house with his wife and children asleep upstairs. No-one was hurt and the wife managed to hose down the fire herself before the army arrived, and whilst I will never condone an act like this, it just goes to show the irony of it all.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
David Wulff wrote: Locally the fireservice earn just over £10,000 *more* that the average regional wage for similarly skilled workers. What on earth is a "similarly skilled worker"?! :-) David Wulff wrote: Ten grand more! I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. Maybe we could start a collection...
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David Wulff wrote: Locally the fireservice earn just over £10,000 *more* that the average regional wage for similarly skilled workers. What on earth is a "similarly skilled worker"?! :-) David Wulff wrote: Ten grand more! I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. Maybe we could start a collection...
Taka Muraoka wrote: What on earth is a "similarly skilled worker"?! A skilled manual labourer. Even well paid nurses only get £18,000 a year locally, compared to the £23,000 firefighters get. Taka Muraoka wrote: Maybe we could start a collection... For you Taka I'd do it for free. ;) :-O
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
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Taka Muraoka wrote: What on earth is a "similarly skilled worker"?! A skilled manual labourer. Even well paid nurses only get £18,000 a year locally, compared to the £23,000 firefighters get. Taka Muraoka wrote: Maybe we could start a collection... For you Taka I'd do it for free. ;) :-O
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
David Wulff wrote: Taka Muraoka wrote: What on earth is a "similarly skilled worker"?! A skilled manual labourer. Even well paid nurses only get £18,000 a year locally, compared to the £23,000 firefighters get. My point was that firefighting is a pretty specialized job. I don't think you can really compare it against other labourer jobs. Nursing is another woefully underpaid job but they not really putting their lives on the line for us. And I can't believe the salaries you quoted. They seem really low - England's an expensive place. Although a quick Google came up with an average salary of 13K pounds for an entry-level fireman here in Oz. Which is a bare minimum living wage here; I couldn't imagine anyone being able to support a family on that. That's still-living-at-home-with-the-parents kind of money. David Wulff wrote: For you Taka I'd do it for free. How nice. When can I expect the pics. Or is it going to be at www.wulffinaskirt.com? :laugh:
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David Wulff wrote: Taka Muraoka wrote: What on earth is a "similarly skilled worker"?! A skilled manual labourer. Even well paid nurses only get £18,000 a year locally, compared to the £23,000 firefighters get. My point was that firefighting is a pretty specialized job. I don't think you can really compare it against other labourer jobs. Nursing is another woefully underpaid job but they not really putting their lives on the line for us. And I can't believe the salaries you quoted. They seem really low - England's an expensive place. Although a quick Google came up with an average salary of 13K pounds for an entry-level fireman here in Oz. Which is a bare minimum living wage here; I couldn't imagine anyone being able to support a family on that. That's still-living-at-home-with-the-parents kind of money. David Wulff wrote: For you Taka I'd do it for free. How nice. When can I expect the pics. Or is it going to be at www.wulffinaskirt.com? :laugh:
Taka Muraoka wrote: My point was that firefighting is a pretty specialized job. I don't think you can really compare it against other labourer jobs. Let's not forget that steel working is a pretty specialised job. Let's not forget that plumbing is a pretty specialised job. Firefighting is no different. September 11th has given firefighters an image in many peoples eyes that they don't really deserve. sure they do a wonderful job and they save peoples lives, but so do a heck of a lot of other professions and many more are far more dangerous to boot. Whenever a national news interview with a picket line is staged, striking firefighters themselves are driving around the block, so to speak, hooting their support. There is a stroing suspicion that striking firefighters themselves have been making hundreds of hoax calls to thie own switchboards to send our limited supporting fire cover on wild goose chases. They are also using gool old fashioned bullying to prevent non-striking firefighters from working. These are actions of intimidation, and to be honest with you I think every last one of them should be sacked if found to be even remotely responsible for any single case. Whilst I - and most of the country, apparently - have no gripes with giving firefighters more money, they have to make themselves "worth it". We can't afford to pay them extra cash (that quite honestly is extortion) without doing the same for other professions, and to be honest with you again - we can't afford to keep paying off the people holding our country's infrastructure together on the whim of a couple of union executives who want £100,000 xmas bonuses that particular year. Taka Muraoka wrote: They seem really low - England's an expensive place The salaries I quoted are for the south west which is nowhere near as expensive as say London or other major centres. The average wage per person here is around £10,000, with many people surviving on less. All the more reason why the rising house prices locally are a serious problem - people can save all their lives and never be able to afford a property of their own, and all because Londoners (and co) are snaping up holiday homes. Still, that is for another day, my point is people survive on much less than half of what the firefighters earn - and that isn't even including their bonuses, etc. Another thing that I find hard to explain to some people is that Brits can survive for less per buck than, say, Americans are
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Taka Muraoka wrote: My point was that firefighting is a pretty specialized job. I don't think you can really compare it against other labourer jobs. Let's not forget that steel working is a pretty specialised job. Let's not forget that plumbing is a pretty specialised job. Firefighting is no different. September 11th has given firefighters an image in many peoples eyes that they don't really deserve. sure they do a wonderful job and they save peoples lives, but so do a heck of a lot of other professions and many more are far more dangerous to boot. Whenever a national news interview with a picket line is staged, striking firefighters themselves are driving around the block, so to speak, hooting their support. There is a stroing suspicion that striking firefighters themselves have been making hundreds of hoax calls to thie own switchboards to send our limited supporting fire cover on wild goose chases. They are also using gool old fashioned bullying to prevent non-striking firefighters from working. These are actions of intimidation, and to be honest with you I think every last one of them should be sacked if found to be even remotely responsible for any single case. Whilst I - and most of the country, apparently - have no gripes with giving firefighters more money, they have to make themselves "worth it". We can't afford to pay them extra cash (that quite honestly is extortion) without doing the same for other professions, and to be honest with you again - we can't afford to keep paying off the people holding our country's infrastructure together on the whim of a couple of union executives who want £100,000 xmas bonuses that particular year. Taka Muraoka wrote: They seem really low - England's an expensive place The salaries I quoted are for the south west which is nowhere near as expensive as say London or other major centres. The average wage per person here is around £10,000, with many people surviving on less. All the more reason why the rising house prices locally are a serious problem - people can save all their lives and never be able to afford a property of their own, and all because Londoners (and co) are snaping up holiday homes. Still, that is for another day, my point is people survive on much less than half of what the firefighters earn - and that isn't even including their bonuses, etc. Another thing that I find hard to explain to some people is that Brits can survive for less per buck than, say, Americans are
David Wulff wrote: Let's not forget that steel working is a pretty specialised job. Let's not forget that plumbing is a pretty specialised job. Firefighting is no different. Totally disagree with you here. Firefighting is different. It's not all rescuing cats from trees. It is extremely dangerous work and these guys risk their lives to save our ours and our property. One has a bit of a different perspective on it, perhaps, living here in Oz - bushfires are a truly terrifying spectacle, even just on TV (I've never been up close and personal with one, thankfully). David Wulff wrote: September 11th has given firefighters an image in many peoples eyes that they don't really deserve. sure they do a wonderful job and they save peoples lives, but so do a heck of a lot of other professions and many more are far more dangerous to boot. Like steel-working and plumbing? :-) I would dispute that "a lot of other professions" are far more dangerous. Big bushfires are terrifying. Chemical fires are seriously bad shit. Even a plain old house-fire is really scary when it happens in your street. Can you imagine going anywhere *near* a burning house, let alone inside it, to try put it out? I've felt that our emergency services people are a woefully under-valued lot for a long time now. I've had a few serious accidents in my time, though, so perhaps that's just a sign of my appreciation of the work that they do. David Wulff wrote: Whilst I - and most of the country, apparently - have no gripes with giving firefighters more money, they have to make themselves "worth it". And how much would it be worth to you if you were stuck in a burning building and needed somebody to come get you out? All the other stuff you mentioned about the unions has nothing to do with fire-fighters though. Not really. It's just plain old union thuggery. David Wulff wrote: All the more reason why the rising house prices locally are a serious problem - people can save all their lives and never be able to afford a property of their own Simliar sort of thing is happening here in Melbourne although it's more the property investors who have been driving the boom. Just about everyone and his dog have been predicting a crash anytime soon and it ain't going to be pretty when it happens. But we're getting off topic a bit now... :-) David Wulff wrote: Pics? Oh no, I don't think you underst
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David Wulff wrote: Let's not forget that steel working is a pretty specialised job. Let's not forget that plumbing is a pretty specialised job. Firefighting is no different. Totally disagree with you here. Firefighting is different. It's not all rescuing cats from trees. It is extremely dangerous work and these guys risk their lives to save our ours and our property. One has a bit of a different perspective on it, perhaps, living here in Oz - bushfires are a truly terrifying spectacle, even just on TV (I've never been up close and personal with one, thankfully). David Wulff wrote: September 11th has given firefighters an image in many peoples eyes that they don't really deserve. sure they do a wonderful job and they save peoples lives, but so do a heck of a lot of other professions and many more are far more dangerous to boot. Like steel-working and plumbing? :-) I would dispute that "a lot of other professions" are far more dangerous. Big bushfires are terrifying. Chemical fires are seriously bad shit. Even a plain old house-fire is really scary when it happens in your street. Can you imagine going anywhere *near* a burning house, let alone inside it, to try put it out? I've felt that our emergency services people are a woefully under-valued lot for a long time now. I've had a few serious accidents in my time, though, so perhaps that's just a sign of my appreciation of the work that they do. David Wulff wrote: Whilst I - and most of the country, apparently - have no gripes with giving firefighters more money, they have to make themselves "worth it". And how much would it be worth to you if you were stuck in a burning building and needed somebody to come get you out? All the other stuff you mentioned about the unions has nothing to do with fire-fighters though. Not really. It's just plain old union thuggery. David Wulff wrote: All the more reason why the rising house prices locally are a serious problem - people can save all their lives and never be able to afford a property of their own Simliar sort of thing is happening here in Melbourne although it's more the property investors who have been driving the boom. Just about everyone and his dog have been predicting a crash anytime soon and it ain't going to be pretty when it happens. But we're getting off topic a bit now... :-) David Wulff wrote: Pics? Oh no, I don't think you underst
Taka Muraoka wrote: Totally disagree with you here. Firefighting is different. As you've said, youir firefighters have to work in a totally different environment to ours. Taka Muraoka wrote: Can you imagine going anywhere *near* a burning house, let alone inside it, to try put it out? Yes I can, when I was seven or eight I had had to climb out of the second-storey window of a burning pub - with a thatched roof, wooden and w/dorb construction, and gallons and gallons of alcohol in the bars, cellars and store rooms less than thirty feet away from the private living quarters - into the arms of a local who was a firefighter living in the village. It was a very very *very* scary experience indeed. However, the firefighters that put it out and saved my home and families business (not to mention our lives) were merely taking calculated risks. Individuals make heros, not professions, and compensating them win money is just plain wrong. Tables turned I'd be damned offended if someone offered me money just to take risks like that, and I expect most of the firefighters of the world would do to. Bill, the man who (amongst many others) helped us was thanked against his will by an unlimited bar tab till the day we left, and he hated it. He'd leave tips to cover the cost of his drinks. Taka Muraoka wrote: And how much would it be worth to you if you were stuck in a burning building and needed somebody to come get you out? See above. Taka Muraoka wrote: All the other stuff you mentioned about the unions has nothing to do with fire-fighters though. Not really. It's just plain old union thuggery It has everything to do with them the way they are pushing it. Taka Muraoka wrote: Oh, errr, I might pass on that then... Damn, and I'd hunted out my special little red PVC number just for you. :-O
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
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Taka Muraoka wrote: Totally disagree with you here. Firefighting is different. As you've said, youir firefighters have to work in a totally different environment to ours. Taka Muraoka wrote: Can you imagine going anywhere *near* a burning house, let alone inside it, to try put it out? Yes I can, when I was seven or eight I had had to climb out of the second-storey window of a burning pub - with a thatched roof, wooden and w/dorb construction, and gallons and gallons of alcohol in the bars, cellars and store rooms less than thirty feet away from the private living quarters - into the arms of a local who was a firefighter living in the village. It was a very very *very* scary experience indeed. However, the firefighters that put it out and saved my home and families business (not to mention our lives) were merely taking calculated risks. Individuals make heros, not professions, and compensating them win money is just plain wrong. Tables turned I'd be damned offended if someone offered me money just to take risks like that, and I expect most of the firefighters of the world would do to. Bill, the man who (amongst many others) helped us was thanked against his will by an unlimited bar tab till the day we left, and he hated it. He'd leave tips to cover the cost of his drinks. Taka Muraoka wrote: And how much would it be worth to you if you were stuck in a burning building and needed somebody to come get you out? See above. Taka Muraoka wrote: All the other stuff you mentioned about the unions has nothing to do with fire-fighters though. Not really. It's just plain old union thuggery It has everything to do with them the way they are pushing it. Taka Muraoka wrote: Oh, errr, I might pass on that then... Damn, and I'd hunted out my special little red PVC number just for you. :-O
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
David Wulff wrote: However, the firefighters that put it out and saved my home and families business (not to mention our lives) were merely taking calculated risks. Individuals make heros, not professions, and compensating them win money is just plain wrong. Absolutely. To paraphrase, there are old firemen and there are heroic firemen but there are no old, heroic firemen. These guys take the calculated risks because they have the training and the willingness to put themselves in harm's way to save our asses. I'm not advocating giving them more money for being heroes - I would imagine that most of them aren't - or just because they're fire-fighters but the fact that we pay them and the paramedics and the police and the school teachers a mere living wage is a sad commentary on the value we place on their contribution they make to society. David Wulff wrote: It has everything to do with them the way they are pushing it. But it has nothing to do with the fact that they are fire-fighters. They could be dock workers or steelies and the story would be pretty much the same. David Wulff wrote: Damn, and I'd hunted out my special little red PVC number just for you. <shudder> Oh, the horror. The horror. </shudder>
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
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David Wulff wrote: However, the firefighters that put it out and saved my home and families business (not to mention our lives) were merely taking calculated risks. Individuals make heros, not professions, and compensating them win money is just plain wrong. Absolutely. To paraphrase, there are old firemen and there are heroic firemen but there are no old, heroic firemen. These guys take the calculated risks because they have the training and the willingness to put themselves in harm's way to save our asses. I'm not advocating giving them more money for being heroes - I would imagine that most of them aren't - or just because they're fire-fighters but the fact that we pay them and the paramedics and the police and the school teachers a mere living wage is a sad commentary on the value we place on their contribution they make to society. David Wulff wrote: It has everything to do with them the way they are pushing it. But it has nothing to do with the fact that they are fire-fighters. They could be dock workers or steelies and the story would be pretty much the same. David Wulff wrote: Damn, and I'd hunted out my special little red PVC number just for you. <shudder> Oh, the horror. The horror. </shudder>
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Striking dock workers or steelies don't put people's lives in direct danger.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
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Striking dock workers or steelies don't put people's lives in direct danger.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
So you're saying, as our young friend who started this VB vs. C++ thread did, that emergency services should not be allowed to strike? It says something about the importance of the work that they do that people's lives are in danger when they're not there and I'm sure that no-one feels that responsibility more than the workers themselves. We haven't heard too much about this particular strike here in Oz and it may be just a case of the union bosses getting belligerent but generally speaking, I would guess that emergency service personnel tend to be somewhat reluctant to go on strike because they realize the consequences of doing so.
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
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So you're saying, as our young friend who started this VB vs. C++ thread did, that emergency services should not be allowed to strike? It says something about the importance of the work that they do that people's lives are in danger when they're not there and I'm sure that no-one feels that responsibility more than the workers themselves. We haven't heard too much about this particular strike here in Oz and it may be just a case of the union bosses getting belligerent but generally speaking, I would guess that emergency service personnel tend to be somewhat reluctant to go on strike because they realize the consequences of doing so.
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Did you catch what I said earlier about union members intimidating those non-union members who are still trying to work, by calling them cowards and shouting abuse at them? These are not the actions of caring individuals in our eyes. There are some, sure, thank god, who are willing to break their own picket lines if they know a life is in danger, but already now many people have died because the immeadiate danger was not known, and many on strike are there merely because they fear the repercusions of thier workmates if they choose to continue. The dates they've chosen to strike are not coincidensces either - they've selected times of the year when statistically there are likely to be more fires than other times of the year, and then calling in hoaxs for christ's sake! They are using our lives to extort our own money from us. Let's not forget who is walking out of the talks at the slightest hint they won't be getting their own way.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
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Did you catch what I said earlier about union members intimidating those non-union members who are still trying to work, by calling them cowards and shouting abuse at them? These are not the actions of caring individuals in our eyes. There are some, sure, thank god, who are willing to break their own picket lines if they know a life is in danger, but already now many people have died because the immeadiate danger was not known, and many on strike are there merely because they fear the repercusions of thier workmates if they choose to continue. The dates they've chosen to strike are not coincidensces either - they've selected times of the year when statistically there are likely to be more fires than other times of the year, and then calling in hoaxs for christ's sake! They are using our lives to extort our own money from us. Let's not forget who is walking out of the talks at the slightest hint they won't be getting their own way.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.
David Wulff wrote: Did you catch what I said earlier about union members intimidating those non-union members who are still trying to work, by calling them cowards and shouting abuse at them Yes I did but I wasn't sure if you referring to that or striking in general. As I said, if these guys are doing this kind of thing, then that is totally reprehensible but this kind of union bastardry happens everywhere, not just with firefighters. We always have annual airline pilot strikes and public transport strikes around this time of year because it's the best time to get results. Sure, it's worse because people's lives are being endangered. There will always be some bad apples in the bunch, in positions of power in the unions. It takes a lot of guts to break a picket line and it's unfair to label them as a bunch of bastards because you have a few pricks running the union. David Wulff wrote: Let's not forget who is walking out of the talks at the slightest hint they won't be getting their own way. Again, we haven't heard an awful lot about this particular situation here in Australia. But I know there have been cases here in the past where nurses and police have gone strike and been pretty stubborn about their demands but only because they had been so reluctant to take action that things had deteriorated to the point where their situation was intolerable. Oh well.
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
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David Wulff wrote: Taka Muraoka wrote: What on earth is a "similarly skilled worker"?! A skilled manual labourer. Even well paid nurses only get £18,000 a year locally, compared to the £23,000 firefighters get. My point was that firefighting is a pretty specialized job. I don't think you can really compare it against other labourer jobs. Nursing is another woefully underpaid job but they not really putting their lives on the line for us. And I can't believe the salaries you quoted. They seem really low - England's an expensive place. Although a quick Google came up with an average salary of 13K pounds for an entry-level fireman here in Oz. Which is a bare minimum living wage here; I couldn't imagine anyone being able to support a family on that. That's still-living-at-home-with-the-parents kind of money. David Wulff wrote: For you Taka I'd do it for free. How nice. When can I expect the pics. Or is it going to be at www.wulffinaskirt.com? :laugh:
Apparently there is a man who has been a firefighter here for 19 years, currently earning £22000. Appalling. I can assure you that his kids will also be leaving uni with debts as he won't be able to afford to put them through. However, striking when your action can mean people will die (usually children, sick or elderly people) is extreme. The way the government here has handled the whole thing also stinks.
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages A moment of silence please. A programmer's best friend has passed beyond that great exception in the sky.... - Mark Conger on "The coffee machine has died"
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Apparently there is a man who has been a firefighter here for 19 years, currently earning £22000. Appalling. I can assure you that his kids will also be leaving uni with debts as he won't be able to afford to put them through. However, striking when your action can mean people will die (usually children, sick or elderly people) is extreme. The way the government here has handled the whole thing also stinks.
I knew it would end badly when I first met Chris in a Canberra alleyway and he said 'try some - it won't hurt you'..... - Christian Graus on Code Project outages A moment of silence please. A programmer's best friend has passed beyond that great exception in the sky.... - Mark Conger on "The coffee machine has died"
I got the feeling from David that the firefighters were being a bit belligerent about the whole thing. But these folks are always stuck between a rock and a hard place: damned if they go on strike and damned if they don't. Sigh...
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
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OK now that i've got your attention... :jig::bob::jig::bob::jig::bob::jig::bob: I saw my first Green Godess yesterday. (the army fire trucks here in the UK) and today I saw the local firefighters decorating thier picket lines for christmas. Personally i felt like driving the car right into the lot of them. (I'm a learner so i'd just say i paniced :-)) DO SOME BLEEDING WORK! There may have been a thread about the firestrike already but i'm now expressing my views here. WHY THE HELL ARN'T I PAYED £30,000 per annum, when you look at the facts they don't do all that much work and they are payed whilst sleeping? Why should they get £30,000 when I'll leave University with masses of government debt to pay off? Why should they be on that salary when they only need two O-Levels and a Budgie to do that job. I give full credit to the Army, they are making the best out of a crap situation they are in and i'd toot my car horn at them over the striking firemen any day (however they may think i'm being a prick for sounding my horn at them for no reason) Plus why is the Fire Service allowed to strike? IMHO no emergency service should be allowed to strike, AFAIK the police aren't allowed to.
We brought out this new and very similar version of our expensive software because the old version was......old....It's a good enough excuse for Microsoft so its fine for us.
When there is a really bad crash who do you think scrapes the bits out of cars and puts them into plastic bags ? :suss: :( Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
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OK now that i've got your attention... :jig::bob::jig::bob::jig::bob::jig::bob: I saw my first Green Godess yesterday. (the army fire trucks here in the UK) and today I saw the local firefighters decorating thier picket lines for christmas. Personally i felt like driving the car right into the lot of them. (I'm a learner so i'd just say i paniced :-)) DO SOME BLEEDING WORK! There may have been a thread about the firestrike already but i'm now expressing my views here. WHY THE HELL ARN'T I PAYED £30,000 per annum, when you look at the facts they don't do all that much work and they are payed whilst sleeping? Why should they get £30,000 when I'll leave University with masses of government debt to pay off? Why should they be on that salary when they only need two O-Levels and a Budgie to do that job. I give full credit to the Army, they are making the best out of a crap situation they are in and i'd toot my car horn at them over the striking firemen any day (however they may think i'm being a prick for sounding my horn at them for no reason) Plus why is the Fire Service allowed to strike? IMHO no emergency service should be allowed to strike, AFAIK the police aren't allowed to.
We brought out this new and very similar version of our expensive software because the old version was......old....It's a good enough excuse for Microsoft so its fine for us.
Personally, I think anyone working in the public sector gets taken for granted by Government and paid accordingly. As a result there's a severe shortage of teachers, NHS staff and who knows what else - and sooner or later that's going to do serious damage to this country. At least in the private sector you can move to another company to improve your salary. Case in point: in June 1998 I moved from Racal Instruments Ltd to Sonardyne International Ltd. My salary rose from £24,000 pa + overtime (I was doing 60 hours a month) to £35,000 pa + bonus. How many public sector employees can do that??? Anna :rose: "Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch -
I got the feeling from David that the firefighters were being a bit belligerent about the whole thing. But these folks are always stuck between a rock and a hard place: damned if they go on strike and damned if they don't. Sigh...
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
Oh no, not all of them, not (I would hope) by a long way, but when your union strikes you strike too - you have no choice in the matter. The majority of *real* firefighters hate being on strike but not that many asked seem to believe it is not the right way to fight. Still, when has a union ever listen to what it's members *really* wanted. :~
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff Born and Bred.