Google accuses Bing of copying their search results
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The engineers at Google felt that Bing could basically be cheating, copying their search results in a very clever way. They came up with the "sting operation" to confirm this suspicion. Full article here: http://searchengineland.com/google-bing-is-cheating-copying-our-search-results-62914[^] Competition is good, if it's healthy. But the moment they see backstabbing as the only option left to keep up with the competition, I think it was about time for them to have called it quits and put their resources on something else. And it looks VERY silly, and embarrassing when it all gets exposed. Google may be evil, but they're capable of writing some really good software. And I do not have ANY sane reason to use Bing, because, Google search does the job much better for me.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
my first reaction was "who cares?" But, really, I would rather Bing not use the "Google voice" since I sometimes use Bing because of it's different results. Sometimes, Bing is better at finding what I'm looking for, sometimes Google is better. I guess I'll start using Blekko. Finally, really, who cares?
"If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
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Seriously - how many true innovations has MS had? Surely this doesn't surprise anyone... :doh:
I don't think this is any different than Phoenix Technologies Ltd reverse engineering the IBM PC BIOS so they could replicate it for clone PCs http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/65532/Reverse_Engineering[^]
Steve Wellens
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Bingle C# and look at the results. While there are some similarities, there are differnces too. Also look at related searches. Sure, there are similiarities between them but after all they basically do the same. They index the sites, the more used/visited ones, etc. It's normal to have similiarities. In other words, if they steal it, a big thumbs up to MS :rolleyes: I mean only google to steal data? No MS too :-\
All the best, Dan
MDL=>Moshu wrote:
Sure, there are similiarities between them but after all they basically do the same. They index the sites, the more used/visited ones, etc. It's normal to have similiarities.
You didn't read the article at all, did you? See Bing search results for the term indoswiftjobinproduction[^]. It lists "Sandra Lee Recipes" as the first result, because Google was doing that*****. I think that this level of "similarity" in search results cannot be coincidental. *****they did it to prove that Bing was copying their results, and they caught Bing red-handed.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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Yep, looks like a pretty conclusive proof to me. People don't actually use Bing, do they? Honestly, I use a few MS products here and there, and some of them aren't bad, but I thought people had learned by now that Microsoft is incapable of making a decent search engine.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Perhaps they should (re-)allocate their "search engine team" resources to their "locate help for VS team" :rolleyes: :)
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MDL=>Moshu wrote:
Sure, there are similiarities between them but after all they basically do the same. They index the sites, the more used/visited ones, etc. It's normal to have similiarities.
You didn't read the article at all, did you? See Bing search results for the term indoswiftjobinproduction[^]. It lists "Sandra Lee Recipes" as the first result, because Google was doing that*****. I think that this level of "similarity" in search results cannot be coincidental. *****they did it to prove that Bing was copying their results, and they caught Bing red-handed.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
You didn't read the article at all, did you?
Guilty as charged :-O If I think about it, not even your entire post. I just concentrated on the bing copying google stuff. It happens to me this kind of stuff. :)
All the best, Dan
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Perhaps they should (re-)allocate their "search engine team" resources to their "locate help for VS team" :rolleyes: :)
ChandraRam wrote:
"locate help for VS team"
Oh yeah, I reckon that team could use a lot more people. :laugh:
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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I don't think this is any different than Phoenix Technologies Ltd reverse engineering the IBM PC BIOS so they could replicate it for clone PCs http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/65532/Reverse_Engineering[^]
Steve Wellens
Steve Wellens wrote:
I don't think this is any different than Phoenix Technologies Ltd reverse engineering the IBM PC BIOS so they could replicate it for clone PCs
I don't think it's like that at all... that was reverse engineering, which is protected and a time honored tradition for engineers. This is not a case of reverse engineering; why would indoswiftjobinproduction return a recipe site? The whole point is that if MS had just reverse engineered, the algorithm would NEVER have returned the recipe site for that query. Google hard coded their engine to return an unrelated result as the top hit for nonsensical queries. Bing returned the same results. That's nothing but Bing taking Google's top result and presenting it as their own. Illegal? I don't know, but certainly dishonest. MS has been busted big time, and I will never again use Bing as a result. This would be more like if Phoenix had taken the actual BIOS chips from IBM, replaced the IBM with Phoenix, then sold them as their own without compensating or getting permission from IBM.
He said, "Boy I'm just old and lonely, But thank you for your concern, Here's wishing you a Happy New Year." I wished him one back in return.
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The engineers at Google felt that Bing could basically be cheating, copying their search results in a very clever way. They came up with the "sting operation" to confirm this suspicion. Full article here: http://searchengineland.com/google-bing-is-cheating-copying-our-search-results-62914[^] Competition is good, if it's healthy. But the moment they see backstabbing as the only option left to keep up with the competition, I think it was about time for them to have called it quits and put their resources on something else. And it looks VERY silly, and embarrassing when it all gets exposed. Google may be evil, but they're capable of writing some really good software. And I do not have ANY sane reason to use Bing, because, Google search does the job much better for me.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
Site says:
Bing has been watching what people search for on Google, the sites they select from Google’s results, then uses that information to improve Bing’s own search listings
Wait, wouldn't this be the equivalent of getting loads of people on PCs, standing behind them and checking what sites they click on? Isn't this one of the ways to see how people use software? Surely, there's nothing wrong with this.
Hassan
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Site says:
Bing has been watching what people search for on Google, the sites they select from Google’s results, then uses that information to improve Bing’s own search listings
Wait, wouldn't this be the equivalent of getting loads of people on PCs, standing behind them and checking what sites they click on? Isn't this one of the ways to see how people use software? Surely, there's nothing wrong with this.
Hassan
That is a usability test. And Bing has already copied that functionality from other search engines... present a textbox and a button to perform a search (and some other fancy stuff). But Bing is copying the data actually entered by users of Google, and the corresponding results produced by their Google search. That's a little different.
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That is a usability test. And Bing has already copied that functionality from other search engines... present a textbox and a button to perform a search (and some other fancy stuff). But Bing is copying the data actually entered by users of Google, and the corresponding results produced by their Google search. That's a little different.
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The engineers at Google felt that Bing could basically be cheating, copying their search results in a very clever way. They came up with the "sting operation" to confirm this suspicion. Full article here: http://searchengineland.com/google-bing-is-cheating-copying-our-search-results-62914[^] Competition is good, if it's healthy. But the moment they see backstabbing as the only option left to keep up with the competition, I think it was about time for them to have called it quits and put their resources on something else. And it looks VERY silly, and embarrassing when it all gets exposed. Google may be evil, but they're capable of writing some really good software. And I do not have ANY sane reason to use Bing, because, Google search does the job much better for me.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
There may be a very fine distinction being made here. Bing will have to own up, but it may choose not too. My question would be is Bing using Google's search results directly, or is it using Google's search results that a user clicked on? If the former, that would be a blatant copy and is pretty unethical to add weight to the results. If it's the later, then it's more than just Google's results that are adding weight. It's the results plus some unknown user who decided to click on one link that is adding weight to the search results. Without knowing more about how much user clicking took place and the degree that this was captured, it's just idle speculation. But it could help explain why only some of the sting operation seem to work. :) Who knew that the 'search industry' would become fret with suspense, espionage and trickery. :laugh:
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra] posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
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The engineers at Google felt that Bing could basically be cheating, copying their search results in a very clever way. They came up with the "sting operation" to confirm this suspicion. Full article here: http://searchengineland.com/google-bing-is-cheating-copying-our-search-results-62914[^] Competition is good, if it's healthy. But the moment they see backstabbing as the only option left to keep up with the competition, I think it was about time for them to have called it quits and put their resources on something else. And it looks VERY silly, and embarrassing when it all gets exposed. Google may be evil, but they're capable of writing some really good software. And I do not have ANY sane reason to use Bing, because, Google search does the job much better for me.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
They should shut down the Google for a couple of weeks and screw up the Bing royally.
There is only one Ashley Judd and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Steve Wellens wrote:
I don't think this is any different than Phoenix Technologies Ltd reverse engineering the IBM PC BIOS so they could replicate it for clone PCs
I don't think it's like that at all... that was reverse engineering, which is protected and a time honored tradition for engineers. This is not a case of reverse engineering; why would indoswiftjobinproduction return a recipe site? The whole point is that if MS had just reverse engineered, the algorithm would NEVER have returned the recipe site for that query. Google hard coded their engine to return an unrelated result as the top hit for nonsensical queries. Bing returned the same results. That's nothing but Bing taking Google's top result and presenting it as their own. Illegal? I don't know, but certainly dishonest. MS has been busted big time, and I will never again use Bing as a result. This would be more like if Phoenix had taken the actual BIOS chips from IBM, replaced the IBM with Phoenix, then sold them as their own without compensating or getting permission from IBM.
He said, "Boy I'm just old and lonely, But thank you for your concern, Here's wishing you a Happy New Year." I wished him one back in return.
They may be doing that but not exclusively as the article points out: "As I wrote earlier, Bing is far from identical to Google for many queries. This suggests that even if Bing is using search activity at Google to improve its results, that’s only one of many signals being considered." I wish both search engines would get rid of all the javascript crap they keep forcing upon us.
Steve Wellens
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The engineers at Google felt that Bing could basically be cheating, copying their search results in a very clever way. They came up with the "sting operation" to confirm this suspicion. Full article here: http://searchengineland.com/google-bing-is-cheating-copying-our-search-results-62914[^] Competition is good, if it's healthy. But the moment they see backstabbing as the only option left to keep up with the competition, I think it was about time for them to have called it quits and put their resources on something else. And it looks VERY silly, and embarrassing when it all gets exposed. Google may be evil, but they're capable of writing some really good software. And I do not have ANY sane reason to use Bing, because, Google search does the job much better for me.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
"... Bing has been watching what people search for on Google, the sites they select from Google’s results, then uses that information to improve Bing’s own search listings." That actually seems like a good idea. They're not so much copying Google's results, just seeing what results people want and then using that information to improve their search results.
My current favourite phrase: I've seen better!
-SK Genius
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The engineers at Google felt that Bing could basically be cheating, copying their search results in a very clever way. They came up with the "sting operation" to confirm this suspicion. Full article here: http://searchengineland.com/google-bing-is-cheating-copying-our-search-results-62914[^] Competition is good, if it's healthy. But the moment they see backstabbing as the only option left to keep up with the competition, I think it was about time for them to have called it quits and put their resources on something else. And it looks VERY silly, and embarrassing when it all gets exposed. Google may be evil, but they're capable of writing some really good software. And I do not have ANY sane reason to use Bing, because, Google search does the job much better for me.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
This doesn't particularly surprise me... When Bing first came out, the most noticeable difference between Bing results and Google results could be seen when searching for more obscure topics: both engines had staggeringly large indexes to draw from, but Google's was far more broad. That's probably not an easy problem to solve: you might be searching for a term that is only relevant to a tiny handful of pages, pages that might not even actually contain the exact term itself (due to alternate spellings and such), and only have a single inbound link... Sure, in another few years, with constant effort Bing might broaden its index to meet or surpass Google's; but in the meantime, they'd be getting saddled with this reputation as the "mainstream searches only" engine. Snagging search results is a bit underhanded, but probably a lot faster. And if (as the article suggests) they de-prioritize the results when other information is available, it shouldn't really hurt Bing's competitiveness (in terms of becoming just a rebranded Google...)
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The engineers at Google felt that Bing could basically be cheating, copying their search results in a very clever way. They came up with the "sting operation" to confirm this suspicion. Full article here: http://searchengineland.com/google-bing-is-cheating-copying-our-search-results-62914[^] Competition is good, if it's healthy. But the moment they see backstabbing as the only option left to keep up with the competition, I think it was about time for them to have called it quits and put their resources on something else. And it looks VERY silly, and embarrassing when it all gets exposed. Google may be evil, but they're capable of writing some really good software. And I do not have ANY sane reason to use Bing, because, Google search does the job much better for me.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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Read it again, particularly the comments at the bottom. I think there's a bit more too it than copying.
There is no failure only feedback
I did, but the search results for those weird terms take me by surprise.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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The engineers at Google felt that Bing could basically be cheating, copying their search results in a very clever way. They came up with the "sting operation" to confirm this suspicion. Full article here: http://searchengineland.com/google-bing-is-cheating-copying-our-search-results-62914[^] Competition is good, if it's healthy. But the moment they see backstabbing as the only option left to keep up with the competition, I think it was about time for them to have called it quits and put their resources on something else. And it looks VERY silly, and embarrassing when it all gets exposed. Google may be evil, but they're capable of writing some really good software. And I do not have ANY sane reason to use Bing, because, Google search does the job much better for me.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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Bit of a storm in teacup, if you ask me. Imagine you are a Bing server, sitting there, doing your stuff, when suddenly a search term comes up that you can't make head or tail of... ...so, just like the rest of us, you Google it. :laugh:
Fantastic! :laugh: :laugh:
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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The engineers at Google felt that Bing could basically be cheating, copying their search results in a very clever way. They came up with the "sting operation" to confirm this suspicion. Full article here: http://searchengineland.com/google-bing-is-cheating-copying-our-search-results-62914[^] Competition is good, if it's healthy. But the moment they see backstabbing as the only option left to keep up with the competition, I think it was about time for them to have called it quits and put their resources on something else. And it looks VERY silly, and embarrassing when it all gets exposed. Google may be evil, but they're capable of writing some really good software. And I do not have ANY sane reason to use Bing, because, Google search does the job much better for me.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
The really intresting test would have been, if Google hadn't advised their test users to click on the manually top-listed link but on a given other (irrelavant/low quality) link. Then what would Bing have done? Had it copied Goggle's rank 1 link (although no test user clicked on it) or had it set the link all the test users clicked on to rank 1. If the former I would say it's clearly cheating. If the later I would consider it legit observation of user behaviour. However Google didn't do this test (or maybe they did on some search terms and just decided not to publish those). I guess we will never know for sure. ;)