Old junk or rare and valuable hardware?
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I still have my first computer, a Netronics Elf II from 1978. It was a kit and I had to scrape together my allowance to get parts and components. I did what I could, but I never got all the neat expansions and had to content with 4k RAM and great black and white graphics at a resolution of 64 x 32 pixels or 64 x 64 pixels. Now I came across someone who wants to sell his old computer. Unlike mine it has practically everything the manufacturer had to offer, including several 4k and 16k memory expansion boards. The four 4k cards cost about 110$ each back then. I know. At least I have one of them. And the two 16k cards were extremely expensive. I would be crazy enough to buy it, but it's only sold completely and the seller wants at least 6000$ for it. That price probably would be equivalent to what the entire computer cost back in 1978. I suppose, I will pass on that offer, but what is the right price? The technology is more than obsolete. I could easily get a 64k RAM chip for a few dollars. It would need little additional logic and making the circuit board would be the hardest part. From that perspective, the price is laughable. On the other side it's a rare old machine. I would not hope to find 1000 of them in working condition on the entire planet. But are there really enough people around who are interested enough to pay such a price?
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverbI don't pay more than $100 for a used computer.
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JimmyRopes wrote:
Some people can never get how to do that even after being shown how. Things like that are what I miss about coding in assembler the most.
Yeah back then I didn't have a problem remembering things! That's why I like the uControllers I've been messing with kind of a blast from the past. I tend to use more 'C' than assembler nowadays but it's still fun.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
Mike Hankey wrote:
Yeah back then I didn't have a problem remembering things!
I hear you. :(( These days I am lucky if I remember what I had for lunch. Of course on the weekend it is easy, tiquilla. :-D
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Yeah I know all 56 even as bad as my memory is I can still remember one. NOP = 0x00 :)
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
No, you must be mistaken. NOP was C4, at least on my CDP1802. But I liked the SEX instruction (Sets the value of the CPU's X register, designating one of the 16 general purpose registers to be the stack pointer). That would have been EN, with N being the number of the register.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb -
Yeah I know all 56 even as bad as my memory is I can still remember one. NOP = 0x00 :)
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
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Self modifying code was very common, but already then considered a sinister hack :) And don't try it on a more modern CPU with one or more memory cache levels. It will fail miserably or be very inefficient by constantly forcing the caches to be reloaded.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverbCDP1802 wrote:
Self modifying code was very common, but already then considered a sinister hack
It is what kept you up at night when you had to modify something you coded six months before. These days I have a rule of thumb; code like the person that is going to maintain your code is a psycopath who knows where you live.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
No actually this[^] was the college had it down in the basement and loaned it to me (but never asked for it back) From there I went to the C64.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
An Altair :) Great, they came as kits as well and had no graphics at all.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb -
The same fanboys who usually put up the effort to write emulators? :) But by the way, such ideas were the reason for Commodore's as well as Atari's fall. Both had too little innovation until it was too late. What a chance in hell could a pimped up 8 bit design have had in the early 1990s? Even 16 bit CPUs were on the decline and 32 bit CPUs were already taking over.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverbCDP1802 wrote:
The same fanboys who usually put up the effort to write emulators?
I promise that I'll try to write one if I ever get in the possesion of working one :)
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Sorry lost my head was stuck on the ATMega328p that I've been working with. BRK = 0x00 :-O
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
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An Altair :) Great, they came as kits as well and had no graphics at all.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverbCDP1802 wrote:
An Altair Smile Great, they came as kits as well and had no graphics at all.
Just lights and switches.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
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Sorry lost my head was stuck on the ATMega328p that I've been working with. BRK = 0x00 :-O
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
:laugh:
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CDP1802 wrote:
Self modifying code was very common, but already then considered a sinister hack
Agreed. I never used it always found other ways to do things but it was something to learn that day and it got us work. One of the EE's came by and saw what we were doing and got us to do a simple job based on it.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
On second thought - this is a good way to throw decompilers or debuggers off the track. Great for security protection, but hard to implement safely with so many different CPUs around.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb -
No, you must be mistaken. NOP was C4, at least on my CDP1802. But I liked the SEX instruction (Sets the value of the CPU's X register, designating one of the 16 general purpose registers to be the stack pointer). That would have been EN, with N being the number of the register.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverbIt's been 30 yrs and I've been learning AVR assembler lately so that came out instead. :-O
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
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Ok, that's a way to see it. At least it's practical. Still, I see some differences to the painting. The old computer had a practical use, which has declined to almost zero in the last 32 years. The painting, if it hever had one, is just as useful as it ever was. The painting has little material value. A canvas and some paint, no more. The computer's components once cost their weight in gold, now they are worth little more than junk. Based on the reputation of the painter and by being a unicate, the painting had a high idealistic value. Does the computer have an idealistic value? Ok, it's from a time before they were built by millions and it is 'half' unique because such computers were a collection of industrially manufactured components and the owner's constructions. So your reasoning goes along the lines what I always say: It's totally unimportant what I can or cannot do. The only thing that counts is, what I can make others believe I can do. And now everything is worth what some fool may think it is. Minus the time and costs to find that fool, I might add :)
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb -
That's an emotional value, and future generations might not share our sentiments.
I are Troll :suss:
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Mike Hankey wrote:
Yeah back then I didn't have a problem remembering things!
I hear you. :(( These days I am lucky if I remember what I had for lunch. Of course on the weekend it is easy, tiquilla. :-D
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
Of course on the weekend it is easy, tiquilla.
My drink of choice...along with Mezcal, love that worm.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
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JimmyRopes wrote:
Of course on the weekend it is easy, tiquilla.
My drink of choice...along with Mezcal, love that worm.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
Mike Hankey wrote:
My drink of choice...along with Mezcal
Wow you are hard core. I usually back up a shot of tiquilla with a :beer:. :laugh:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
CDP1802 wrote:
Self modifying code was very common, but already then considered a sinister hack
It is what kept you up at night when you had to modify something you coded six months before. These days I have a rule of thumb; code like the person that is going to maintain your code is a psycopath who knows where you live.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesIt is what kept you up at night drove you crazy when you had to modify something you coded six months before. FTFY
JimmyRopes wrote:
code like the person that is going to maintain your code is a psycopath who knows where you live.
He is and he does. :)
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
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CDP1802 wrote:
An Altair Smile Great, they came as kits as well and had no graphics at all.
Just lights and switches.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
My Elf II is one step away from that. The original Elf's switches had been replaced by a hex keypad, the lights are still there, but more in the form of 7 segment LED displays, hexadecimal of course. And it had primitive and extremely simple (on the hardware side) graphics. The graphics chip (a CDP1861) simply fetches the graphics data with DMA and is hooked up directly to the bus. Additionally only a few resistors to the video signal are needed.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverb -
Mike Hankey wrote:
My drink of choice...along with Mezcal
Wow you are hard core. I usually back up a shot of tiquilla with a :beer:. :laugh:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesSorry misrepresented myself I also back it up with beer. My statement should have been; My drink of choice when I can't get Mezcal.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
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My Elf II is one step away from that. The original Elf's switches had been replaced by a hex keypad, the lights are still there, but more in the form of 7 segment LED displays, hexadecimal of course. And it had primitive and extremely simple (on the hardware side) graphics. The graphics chip (a CDP1861) simply fetches the graphics data with DMA and is hooked up directly to the bus. Additionally only a few resistors to the video signal are needed.
"I have what could be described as the most wide-open sense of humor on the site, and if I don't think something is funny, then it really isn't." - JSOC, 2011 -----
"Friar Modest never was a prior" - Italian proverbThat's what I like about the stuff I'm working with now, it's a lot more versatile and easy to wire up peripherals. The only problem I have is like you stated on an earlier post the circuit boards. I just got the stuff to make my own and I'm going to try it some time this week...wish me luck.
If you keep doing what you been doing you'll keep getting what you been getting http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^] [My Site]
