Is programming an art or a science?
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Or a mixture of both? and how much in each category? What are your thoughts, and where do you think programming is an art, and where do you think it is a science? An by art, I'm not referring to GUI or web design or any other graphical element. I mean "art" in the inspirational sense of creativity--the "ah ha" experience when writing a nifty function, for example. Personally, I would say that programming is more of an art, but it has the potential to become more of a science. Sort of like being a doctor in the 19th century vs. in the 21st century. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
An engineer without a sense of art is a mechanical robot. :) -- This space for rent.
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Or a mixture of both? and how much in each category? What are your thoughts, and where do you think programming is an art, and where do you think it is a science? An by art, I'm not referring to GUI or web design or any other graphical element. I mean "art" in the inspirational sense of creativity--the "ah ha" experience when writing a nifty function, for example. Personally, I would say that programming is more of an art, but it has the potential to become more of a science. Sort of like being a doctor in the 19th century vs. in the 21st century. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
definitely more an art. However, the closer you get to the hardware the more scientific it becomes. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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Science. Thinking of it as an art does no good and only causes you to come up with useless and silly opinions about programming. :) Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
Thinking of it as an art does no good and only causes you to come up with useless and silly opinions about programming. I think so too, but if it's a science, shouldn't I be able to demonstratably prove that one implementation is better (or at least equal) to another, without actually doing the implementation???. Or am I mixing metaphors, in the sense that there is really no theoretical aspect to programming--it's all applied? Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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Isn't at least part of programming "don't stop tinking about it just because it sounds silly"?
If I could find a souvenir / just to prove the world was here [sighist]
Well, for those of us that actually think, yes. :laugh: But, in the vein of Richard Feynman's lifestyle, yes, one should always think about even silly things in programming (and just about anything else). This is what makes "science", I guess. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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Both, and you can compensate lack of one with the other.
If I could find a souvenir / just to prove the world was here [sighist]
and you can compensate lack of one with the other. Aahh. To a point. OK, how about this--people who are more imaginative tend to be "artistic" in their programming--innovative, more risk taking, while people with less imagination tend to be "scientific"--tried and true technologies and solutions. It seems that both can lead to disaster if taken to the extreme, and neither alone can solve certain complex problems. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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If you have ever seen some of my code, you'd know that it can also be neither. :-O Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
You must be a graduate of The Jackson Pollock School Of Programming. I attended there too! :laugh: Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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i'd say it's more of a 'craft'. it's not as disciplined as a science, but it's more practical than an art. -c
There's one easy way to prove the effectiveness of 'letting the market decide' when it comes to environmental protection. It's spelt 'S-U-V'. --Holgate, from Plastic
it's more of a 'craft' Mmmm. The answer that brings balance to the two extremes. Well said! Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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An engineer without a sense of art is a mechanical robot. :) -- This space for rent.
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I'd say it is a young science in a emperical stage. Marc Clifton wrote: I mean "art" in the inspirational sense of creativity--the "ah ha" experience when writing a nifty function, for example. In a past life I was an engineer in the SemiConductor industry. And, why most of everything we did was driven by pure science one would derive a sense of artistic satisifaction by a subtle well engineered solution. I think too many people belive that because you are following a scientific foundation / ideas you can't be creative inside that structure. Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffee.
I'd say it is a young science in a emperical stage. Early 1900's then. :-D I think too many people belive that because you are following a scientific foundation / ideas you can't be creative inside that structure. I agree. What comes to mind is how our educational system seems to stifle the creativity part. So, one can have a set of programming tools/guidelines that are based on solid "science" but apply them creatively? Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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Or a mixture of both? and how much in each category? What are your thoughts, and where do you think programming is an art, and where do you think it is a science? An by art, I'm not referring to GUI or web design or any other graphical element. I mean "art" in the inspirational sense of creativity--the "ah ha" experience when writing a nifty function, for example. Personally, I would say that programming is more of an art, but it has the potential to become more of a science. Sort of like being a doctor in the 19th century vs. in the 21st century. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Obviously an art, as is the job of an engineer. It is was about science, how to explain all these bugs ? :rolleyes: It would be in the same category than astrology :-D
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
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I'm a strong beleiver of the...idea...of programming beeing some of both. Programming is a science because there are, though few, certain laws that one must abide by. Depending on the language and platform, these laws can hamper or release your creativity. Programming is also an art for the sole reason that to program you have to be creative. You have to imagine and extrapolate and obfuscate :wtf: and whatever else to twist your program into the creature you want it to be. This often requires more creativity than logic. So while programming is a science, its more of a creative art. :-D
To use Chris Losinger's word: a "craft"? I'm wondering how much of the creative part of programming could actually be done mechanically at the present time. Are there are set of rules that can get you to the 80-90% mark of implementing a quality program? This is not intended to obsolete the programmer, but to free him/her to perform truly creative tasks. (We've heard that line before, and it always seems to turn out to simply change our tasks, never really freeing us. Reminds me of the book "How Technology Bites Back") Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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It is business, man, business. Art is business, science is business. Everything is business. :)
Everything is business. Even, aah, the pleasures of life? Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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Or a mixture of both? and how much in each category? What are your thoughts, and where do you think programming is an art, and where do you think it is a science? An by art, I'm not referring to GUI or web design or any other graphical element. I mean "art" in the inspirational sense of creativity--the "ah ha" experience when writing a nifty function, for example. Personally, I would say that programming is more of an art, but it has the potential to become more of a science. Sort of like being a doctor in the 19th century vs. in the 21st century. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Good morning Marc :-) It should be a combination of both, similar to architecture, say. But unfortunately, it currently seems to be more of a voodoo practice[^] than anything else. I like the analogy of 19C doctors, though.
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
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An engineer without a sense of art is a mechanical robot. :) -- This space for rent.
An engineer without a sense of art is a mechanical robot. Art without a sense of science is an irrelevant abstraction? (Couldn't help myself). So, art is implicit in the non-mechanical aspects of engineering (or science in general)--ie., the creative aspects. Creativity = art? This space for rent. $5 for "Marc Loves Karen" going once... going twice... Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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I'd say it is a young science in a emperical stage. Early 1900's then. :-D I think too many people belive that because you are following a scientific foundation / ideas you can't be creative inside that structure. I agree. What comes to mind is how our educational system seems to stifle the creativity part. So, one can have a set of programming tools/guidelines that are based on solid "science" but apply them creatively? Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Marc Clifton wrote: So, one can have a set of programming tools/guidelines that are based on solid "science" but apply them creatively? Exactly! This how a lot of scientific and engineering advances seem to happen. Look at Einstein. While a lot of people belived he was smoking some good *stuff*, he used first principles in physics to develop radicaly new theories. Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffee.
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definitely more an art. However, the closer you get to the hardware the more scientific it becomes. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
the closer you get to the hardware the more scientific it becomes. Oooh, I've seen some really artistic hardware engineering. More in the analog world, but sometimes some really interesting things in the digital world. Boy, just think about those pictures magnified a million times of all the transistors in a processor. I always thought there was a lot of "art" in the laying of circuit boards (especially when things like 6 or more layers were unheard of or prohibitively expensive). I might have misunderstood you though--yes, when writing to software that interfaces with hardware, there's little art except for what gets thrown at the wall because the hardware documentation is wrong. (been there, done that). Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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Or a mixture of both? and how much in each category? What are your thoughts, and where do you think programming is an art, and where do you think it is a science? An by art, I'm not referring to GUI or web design or any other graphical element. I mean "art" in the inspirational sense of creativity--the "ah ha" experience when writing a nifty function, for example. Personally, I would say that programming is more of an art, but it has the potential to become more of a science. Sort of like being a doctor in the 19th century vs. in the 21st century. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
22.22912% Science 19.35983% Brute Force 19.35983% Skill 18.87821% Art 10.21232% Previous Work 8.22121% Emperical Data 1.71783% Opinion 0.02165% Divine Inspiration But truly, 100% CodeProject ;P - Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
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Obviously an art, as is the job of an engineer. It is was about science, how to explain all these bugs ? :rolleyes: It would be in the same category than astrology :-D
Ohé Partisans, Ouvriers et Paysans C'est l'alarme! Le Chant des Partisans
It would be in the same category than astrology Sometimes I think it is! It is was about science, how to explain all these bugs ? Well, that's why I asked the question. If it were more scientific, we would have less bugs. We would have better designs, better implementations. Why can't it be more scientific??? Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
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Thinking of it as an art does no good and only causes you to come up with useless and silly opinions about programming. I think so too, but if it's a science, shouldn't I be able to demonstratably prove that one implementation is better (or at least equal) to another, without actually doing the implementation???. Or am I mixing metaphors, in the sense that there is really no theoretical aspect to programming--it's all applied? Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Too many variables to be able to prove something without testing. Also, since we are talking human's here, we have to test. The lack of testing in computer science is something that frustrates me to no end. People see a problem, devise a solution, and then claim it is better without showing that the solution doesn't cause side effects. But how do you test? :( Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
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Good morning Marc :-) It should be a combination of both, similar to architecture, say. But unfortunately, it currently seems to be more of a voodoo practice[^] than anything else. I like the analogy of 19C doctors, though.
I'd wear a miniskirt and pimp myself for an extra ten grand a year. - David Wulff
voodoo Love it! Especially the "waving a dead chicken...Things programmers do that they know shouldn't work but they try anyway" Good evening, Taka. I liked Chris Losinger's term "craft". Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.