The only good junkie...
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wolfbinary wrote:
Would you like to ban alcohol? It's a drug too.
So is aspirin but these are hardly a valid comparison. You wont find casual or social intravenous users of heroin, nor will you find many, if any, aged over about 35 or 40.
_Josh_ wrote:
You wont find casual or social intravenous users of heroin
Yeah but you might, if heroin were as available as say aspirin. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra] posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
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_Josh_ wrote:
You wont find casual or social intravenous users of heroin
Yeah but you might, if heroin were as available as say aspirin. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra] posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
Chris Meech wrote:
Yeah but you might, if heroin were as available as say aspirin.
The fact one is addictive just might be a factor. Do you think it's unreasonable to classify groups of drugs differently? There are parts of my city where you could argue that heroin is as available as aspirin, I suspect these areas also have the highest rates of violent crimes.
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Dalek Dave wrote:
I think you maybe are playing devil's advocate, but in case not, just think about it.
I'm not following. Drugs ruin lives, I'm sure you've seen it as have I. How would legality change the effect drug abuse has on people's mental state? I was at the park with my son yesterday kicking a ball around. A pit bull terrier with no lead stole and destroyed his ball, I followed it to it's owner and suggested she keep it on a lead as per the law. She let fly with a vile mouthful and threatened to bash the boy. I can pick the 'ice look' at 100 paces. Fucking junkie scum.
It's unfortunate your run in with the pit bull but it is a perfect example of how legalization would solve urban crime... Why would a junkie/dealer feel he needs a pit bull? They tend to have them to protect their "stash". Why have a "stash" if you can go down to the 7/11 and pick up what is "needed"?
_Josh_ wrote:
Drugs ruin lives
Mostly because of the legal issues. When drugs are allowed to be used openly then people are more likely to admit they have a problem... Or their families have standing ground to get them help. It is quite difficult if the "problem" is entirely illegal in the first place (unlike alchohol).
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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It's unfortunate your run in with the pit bull but it is a perfect example of how legalization would solve urban crime... Why would a junkie/dealer feel he needs a pit bull? They tend to have them to protect their "stash". Why have a "stash" if you can go down to the 7/11 and pick up what is "needed"?
_Josh_ wrote:
Drugs ruin lives
Mostly because of the legal issues. When drugs are allowed to be used openly then people are more likely to admit they have a problem... Or their families have standing ground to get them help. It is quite difficult if the "problem" is entirely illegal in the first place (unlike alchohol).
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
Collin Jasnoch wrote:
It's unfortunate your run in with the pit bull but it is a perfect example of how legalization would solve urban crime... Why would a junkie/dealer feel he needs a pit bull?
This was no dealer, just a junkie living hand to mouth. How would legal drugs stop them making poor decisions?
Collin Jasnoch wrote:
Mostly because of the legal issues. When drugs are allowed to be used openly then people are more likely to admit they have a problem... Or their families have standing ground to get them help. It is quite difficult if the "problem" is entirely illegal in the first place (unlike alchohol).
Have you ever known a heroin or ice addict? I suspect not. Here treatment is freely available, payed for by the tax payer. There are government funded shooting galleries where they can get clean needles and the cops turn a blind eye. If what you say is true why do we still have a problem? Hard drugs ruin lives, of that there is no doubt. Comparing hard drugs to drink, pot, even ecstasy is just ignorant.
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wolfbinary wrote:
Would you like to ban alcohol? It's a drug too.
So is aspirin but these are hardly a valid comparison. You wont find casual or social intravenous users of heroin, nor will you find many, if any, aged over about 35 or 40.
_Josh_ wrote:
You wont find casual or social intravenous users of heroin
But you will find people addicted to alcohol, unable to cope with life because of their addiction and (far more than druggies do) killing innocents on the highway. From wikipedia (a plethora of footnotes deleted): "The most common substance of abuse/dependence in patients presenting for treatment is alcohol." In the United Kingdom, the number of 'dependent drinkers' was calculated as over 2.8 million in 2001. About 12% of American adults have had an alcohol dependence problem at some time in their life. The World Health Organization estimates that about 140 million people throughout the world suffer from alcohol dependence. In the United States and western Europe 10 to 20 percent of men and 5 to 10 percent of women at some point in their lives will meet criteria for alcoholism. Within the medical and scientific communities, there is broad consensus regarding alcoholism as a disease state. For example, the American Medical Association considers alcohol a drug and states that "drug addiction is a chronic, relapsing brain disease characterized by compulsive drug seeking and use despite often devastating consequences. It results from a complex interplay of biological vulnerability, environmental exposure, and developmental factors (e.g., stage of brain maturity). So lets just make getting drunk to be a capital offense. That'll let the casual drinkers off the hook.
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” ~ H.L. Mencken
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_Josh_ wrote:
You wont find casual or social intravenous users of heroin
But you will find people addicted to alcohol, unable to cope with life because of their addiction and (far more than druggies do) killing innocents on the highway. From wikipedia (a plethora of footnotes deleted): "The most common substance of abuse/dependence in patients presenting for treatment is alcohol." In the United Kingdom, the number of 'dependent drinkers' was calculated as over 2.8 million in 2001. About 12% of American adults have had an alcohol dependence problem at some time in their life. The World Health Organization estimates that about 140 million people throughout the world suffer from alcohol dependence. In the United States and western Europe 10 to 20 percent of men and 5 to 10 percent of women at some point in their lives will meet criteria for alcoholism. Within the medical and scientific communities, there is broad consensus regarding alcoholism as a disease state. For example, the American Medical Association considers alcohol a drug and states that "drug addiction is a chronic, relapsing brain disease characterized by compulsive drug seeking and use despite often devastating consequences. It results from a complex interplay of biological vulnerability, environmental exposure, and developmental factors (e.g., stage of brain maturity). So lets just make getting drunk to be a capital offense. That'll let the casual drinkers off the hook.
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” ~ H.L. Mencken
Oakman wrote:
But you will find people addicted to alcohol, unable to cope with life because of their addiction and (far more than druggies do) killing innocents on the highway.
You'll find people 'addicted' to ice cream eating themselves to death. The point is that a far greater percentage (I''d guesstimate > 99%) of hard drug users resort to crime to support their addiction than drinkers. And that's why the only good junkie is a stone cold dead one. I have no real problem with legalising drugs. While my partner was in hospital with the twins last week I would sit and watch the junkies queue for their free methadone at the clinic. Every single one of them a hollow, soulless shells of a human being.
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Oakman wrote:
But you will find people addicted to alcohol, unable to cope with life because of their addiction and (far more than druggies do) killing innocents on the highway.
You'll find people 'addicted' to ice cream eating themselves to death. The point is that a far greater percentage (I''d guesstimate > 99%) of hard drug users resort to crime to support their addiction than drinkers. And that's why the only good junkie is a stone cold dead one. I have no real problem with legalising drugs. While my partner was in hospital with the twins last week I would sit and watch the junkies queue for their free methadone at the clinic. Every single one of them a hollow, soulless shells of a human being.
_Josh_ wrote:
(I''d guesstimate > 99%) of hard drug users resort to crime to support their addiction
Now that's a bold statement. Depends what you mean by Hard drugs, I guess, but I reckon there's plenty of wealthy people taking coke regularly without mugging passers by. And sure, more illegal drug users resort to crime to buy drugs - but many an alcoholic will drink, for example, meths - and the point here is that they don't have to resort to crime as it's relatively cheap to get drunk.
_Josh_ wrote:
And that's why the only good junkie is a stone cold dead one.
Your compassion is touching. I'm guessing your background is somewhat different to the 'average' addicted user. If you're in an environment where you are surrounded by crime, unlikely to get a job (or, at least, anything that pays well) and have the opportunity to make money by getting involved... By legalising drugs in a controlled manner (and I would include cigarettes) - and no, I don't know exactly how that would work - you would at least allow preventative measures, and be sure you're targeting those most likely to be affected. I prefer to think that "The only good junkie is an ex-one"
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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It's unfortunate your run in with the pit bull but it is a perfect example of how legalization would solve urban crime... Why would a junkie/dealer feel he needs a pit bull? They tend to have them to protect their "stash". Why have a "stash" if you can go down to the 7/11 and pick up what is "needed"?
_Josh_ wrote:
Drugs ruin lives
Mostly because of the legal issues. When drugs are allowed to be used openly then people are more likely to admit they have a problem... Or their families have standing ground to get them help. It is quite difficult if the "problem" is entirely illegal in the first place (unlike alchohol).
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
Collin Jasnoch wrote:
It is quite difficult if the "problem" is entirely illegal in the first place
You're right there - I was reading about a teenage girl at a festival only the other day. She was (very) sick but her friends were too scared of being caught with drugs to tell anyone what she'd taken (I think they took her to the medical tent and left her there) She survived, just. I wonder how many parents are concerned about their kids, but don't want to take them to see anyone because they're frightened of the legal consequences?
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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_Josh_ wrote:
(I''d guesstimate > 99%) of hard drug users resort to crime to support their addiction
Now that's a bold statement. Depends what you mean by Hard drugs, I guess, but I reckon there's plenty of wealthy people taking coke regularly without mugging passers by. And sure, more illegal drug users resort to crime to buy drugs - but many an alcoholic will drink, for example, meths - and the point here is that they don't have to resort to crime as it's relatively cheap to get drunk.
_Josh_ wrote:
And that's why the only good junkie is a stone cold dead one.
Your compassion is touching. I'm guessing your background is somewhat different to the 'average' addicted user. If you're in an environment where you are surrounded by crime, unlikely to get a job (or, at least, anything that pays well) and have the opportunity to make money by getting involved... By legalising drugs in a controlled manner (and I would include cigarettes) - and no, I don't know exactly how that would work - you would at least allow preventative measures, and be sure you're targeting those most likely to be affected. I prefer to think that "The only good junkie is an ex-one"
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
_Maxxx_ wrote:
Depends what you mean by Hard drugs, I guess, but I reckon there's plenty of wealthy people taking coke regularly without mugging passers by.
I was thinking more of heroin and ice. WHen I think of coke I think of Charlie Sheen or an investment banker. There was a doctor in Sydney who killed a prostitute by sticking too much cock up her fanny though.
_Maxxx_ wrote:
By legalising drugs in a controlled manner (and I would include cigarettes) - and no, I don't know exactly how that would work - you would at least allow preventative measures, and be sure you're targeting those most likely to be affected.
In a lot of ways drugs are legal here. The cops don't bother to arrest the users and they can go on state sponsored methadone programs.
_Maxxx_ wrote:
I prefer to think that "The only good junkie is an ex-one"
When you're dead you're ex-everything.
_Maxxx_ wrote:
Your compassion is touching.
If people want to ruin their lives good luck to them I say. I'm happy to see my tax dollar spent on treatment programs for those that want to help themselves but for the majority of the half dead gutter dwellers premature death is the enviable end point.
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...is a dead one. Seriously, if the penalty for possession of ice/meth was summary execution on the spot the world would be a better place.
Meth used to be legal. Alcohol used to be illegal. Do you suggest that right and wrong is ordained by the vagaries of government? In ny case, alcohol has many more addicts than meth and has a greater negative impact on people. Do you suggest it too is outlawed? And personally, I wouldnt take meth. Its too crude. Coke is far nicer! :)
"It is a remarkable fact that despite the worldwide expenditure of perhaps US$50 billion since 1990, and the efforts of tens of thousands of scientists worldwide, no human climate signal has yet been detected that is distinct from natural variation." Bob Carter, Research Professor of Geology, James Cook University, Townsville
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Oakman wrote:
But you will find people addicted to alcohol, unable to cope with life because of their addiction and (far more than druggies do) killing innocents on the highway.
You'll find people 'addicted' to ice cream eating themselves to death. The point is that a far greater percentage (I''d guesstimate > 99%) of hard drug users resort to crime to support their addiction than drinkers. And that's why the only good junkie is a stone cold dead one. I have no real problem with legalising drugs. While my partner was in hospital with the twins last week I would sit and watch the junkies queue for their free methadone at the clinic. Every single one of them a hollow, soulless shells of a human being.
_Josh_ wrote:
I have no real problem with legalising drugs
And I have no real problem with shooting addicts on sight - I just want to take out the hollow, soulless alkies, too. Call it evolution in action, in both cases. BTW: I didn't think your OP deserved a 1, so I balanced it.
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” ~ H.L. Mencken