It's called a community mutual fund. [modified]
-
I-am-Learning wrote:
do u guys think, there's some lateral thinking involved in this
Yes, most certainly. Someone in the Financial Services Sector has thought of a new way to get their 10% of your money.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
-
I did not imply that, in any way. How you can possibly infer that I did is beyond me.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
-
I did not imply that, in any way. How you can possibly infer that I did is beyond me.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
-
I now pronounce you Man and Spreadsheet.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
-
I now pronounce you Man and Spreadsheet.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
Story of my life. As soon as I hit the old workstead of a morning, I have a cup of tea and fire up excel for the day!
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
-
CommunityMutualFund[^] It's called a community mutual fund.do u guys think, there's some lateral thinking involved in this ?You think a concept like this might work sometime in the future ?looking to hear from people. honestly not advertising or promoting anything here.
modified on Thursday, March 10, 2011 7:16 AM
I-am-Learning wrote:
You think a concept like this might work
Sounds like communism to me...socialistic thinking.
-
I-am-Learning wrote:
You think a concept like this might work
Sounds like communism to me...socialistic thinking.
-
not exactly. I was thinking purely in logical terms ,rather than what exists today.I dont want to be too loud about it, but i think today's world lacks a lot of logic.
-
CommunityMutualFund[^] It's called a community mutual fund.do u guys think, there's some lateral thinking involved in this ?You think a concept like this might work sometime in the future ?looking to hear from people. honestly not advertising or promoting anything here.
modified on Thursday, March 10, 2011 7:16 AM
An excellent opportunity for fund managers and their technology partners to rip off a whole community at a time. Will enrich many lawyers, but few communities will benefit.
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them." Eric Hoffer "The failure mode of 'clever' is 'asshole'" John Scalzi
-
An excellent opportunity for fund managers and their technology partners to rip off a whole community at a time. Will enrich many lawyers, but few communities will benefit.
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them." Eric Hoffer "The failure mode of 'clever' is 'asshole'" John Scalzi
on a serious note . why do you think so.? where exactly do you see the loop hole or the gap? it would be nice to know,and get people's views. if the picture can be clarified - it turn's out this way.this model is something between a govt owned entity and a private owned entity. private is usually totally capitalistic.Govt is inefficient.
-
on a serious note . why do you think so.? where exactly do you see the loop hole or the gap? it would be nice to know,and get people's views. if the picture can be clarified - it turn's out this way.this model is something between a govt owned entity and a private owned entity. private is usually totally capitalistic.Govt is inefficient.
The combination of corporation and government in a co-operative enterprise is called fascism. It has never worked to benefit other parties than those two, and likely never will. Community governments are usually somewhat amateurs, and easily sold a bill of goods. They lack the expertise and resources to assess the risks involved. A mutual fund is an investment vehicle. It's primary purpose is to make money for the investors and fund managers. That means any benefit for "community infrastructure" is at best a secondary purpose, a side effect, as it were, of making money for others. It does not strike me as a reasonable way to finance community development. Bonds, with a fixed interest rate and known maturity are more appropriate, and have a known risk for a known investment capital.
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them." Eric Hoffer "The failure mode of 'clever' is 'asshole'" John Scalzi
-
The combination of corporation and government in a co-operative enterprise is called fascism. It has never worked to benefit other parties than those two, and likely never will. Community governments are usually somewhat amateurs, and easily sold a bill of goods. They lack the expertise and resources to assess the risks involved. A mutual fund is an investment vehicle. It's primary purpose is to make money for the investors and fund managers. That means any benefit for "community infrastructure" is at best a secondary purpose, a side effect, as it were, of making money for others. It does not strike me as a reasonable way to finance community development. Bonds, with a fixed interest rate and known maturity are more appropriate, and have a known risk for a known investment capital.
"People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them." Eric Hoffer "The failure mode of 'clever' is 'asshole'" John Scalzi
ok just to clarify things.- by community i was not exactly meaning a community government. let me try and paint a small picture. I represent a company that's a specialist in producing Hydrogen fuel cells and also in setting up wimax networks.So i belong to the party called the consortium. lets forget the fund manager - he's just offering services for carrying out the entire fiancial operation of taking money in and sending money back to the society. third entiy is the individual. - he see's an opportunity in the form of a Community Mutual Fund to set up Hydrogen fuel cell pumps in a) Country USA B) State Florida c)city Jacksonville the Ownership ratio in the mutual fund scheme is declared as 50% Individual Ownership 50% Consortium.- this implies that 50% of the wealth created is given to the individual who has applied for the fund and the other 50% of the wealth created goes to the consortium. There would ofcourse be minimum entry and exit criteria. depending on the mumber of people who apply for the nation level state level and city level funds - the infra structure would be built and managed up by the consortium company.t's like a stock but there is a predetermined value of ownership and wealth distribution.It's a new kind of instrument,that's actually not available in the market today.A Bond is an instrument that would give you 5% fixed Return on your investment. I dont think -it's fair to compare a bond with this kind of an instrument- for more than a few reasons.It may be apt to compare present day higher risk instruments like stocks nd Mutual funds to the community mutual funds. ofcourse it can't be worked out for everything but in case of healthcare, fuel units, digital infra, rail systems infra - it could work out. Just for your thinking: did you know google pays 0% dividend on it's stock .there are still a large nos of buyers of the stock,hoping that the next fool who's buying the stock is going to buy the stock at a higher level, than they bought it.
modified on Thursday, March 10, 2011 9:41 AM
-
CommunityMutualFund[^] It's called a community mutual fund.do u guys think, there's some lateral thinking involved in this ?You think a concept like this might work sometime in the future ?looking to hear from people. honestly not advertising or promoting anything here.
modified on Thursday, March 10, 2011 7:16 AM
A few things to consider: 1. "Investing in community" likely means that the fund has few tangible assets. What, exactly, makes up the fund's investment portfolo? 2. How is the return on the investment calculated, and how does that compare with other investments? 2. If the money goes into community infrastructure such as putting flower gardens in traffic circles and fixing pot holes, the fund will have severe liquidity issues. If you invest $1000, you will not be able to with draw $500 next year. If the fund managers cannot account for every penny, cannot give an itemized list of every holding the fund has, cannot provide a detailed prospectus of how the investment provides a return, cannot provide a history of past performance certified by an independent third-party, investors should be very, very leery about investing. If the fund managers can tell you "No" when you ask for your money back, then my first thought would be that it is a fraud.
-
Story of my life. As soon as I hit the old workstead of a morning, I have a cup of tea and fire up excel for the day!
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
As soon as I hit the old workstead of a morning, I have a cup of tea and fire up excel for the day!
So it's true. Daleks do go to Hell.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
I-am-Learning wrote:
I hope you didn't mean to say that "i belong to the financial services sector".I dont.
If that is the case, I hope you are not in a US legal jurisdiction: just having that website up is likely a felony violation of US securities laws.
-
ok just to clarify things.- by community i was not exactly meaning a community government. let me try and paint a small picture. I represent a company that's a specialist in producing Hydrogen fuel cells and also in setting up wimax networks.So i belong to the party called the consortium. lets forget the fund manager - he's just offering services for carrying out the entire fiancial operation of taking money in and sending money back to the society. third entiy is the individual. - he see's an opportunity in the form of a Community Mutual Fund to set up Hydrogen fuel cell pumps in a) Country USA B) State Florida c)city Jacksonville the Ownership ratio in the mutual fund scheme is declared as 50% Individual Ownership 50% Consortium.- this implies that 50% of the wealth created is given to the individual who has applied for the fund and the other 50% of the wealth created goes to the consortium. There would ofcourse be minimum entry and exit criteria. depending on the mumber of people who apply for the nation level state level and city level funds - the infra structure would be built and managed up by the consortium company.t's like a stock but there is a predetermined value of ownership and wealth distribution.It's a new kind of instrument,that's actually not available in the market today.A Bond is an instrument that would give you 5% fixed Return on your investment. I dont think -it's fair to compare a bond with this kind of an instrument- for more than a few reasons.It may be apt to compare present day higher risk instruments like stocks nd Mutual funds to the community mutual funds. ofcourse it can't be worked out for everything but in case of healthcare, fuel units, digital infra, rail systems infra - it could work out. Just for your thinking: did you know google pays 0% dividend on it's stock .there are still a large nos of buyers of the stock,hoping that the next fool who's buying the stock is going to buy the stock at a higher level, than they bought it.
modified on Thursday, March 10, 2011 9:41 AM
I'll admit you've intrigued me in the concept of instruments that capitalise on the greed of investors and other principals to provide real-world benefits in targeted areas. There are a lot of potential pitfalls, but it certainly merits further investigation.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
A few things to consider: 1. "Investing in community" likely means that the fund has few tangible assets. What, exactly, makes up the fund's investment portfolo? 2. How is the return on the investment calculated, and how does that compare with other investments? 2. If the money goes into community infrastructure such as putting flower gardens in traffic circles and fixing pot holes, the fund will have severe liquidity issues. If you invest $1000, you will not be able to with draw $500 next year. If the fund managers cannot account for every penny, cannot give an itemized list of every holding the fund has, cannot provide a detailed prospectus of how the investment provides a return, cannot provide a history of past performance certified by an independent third-party, investors should be very, very leery about investing. If the fund managers can tell you "No" when you ask for your money back, then my first thought would be that it is a fraud.
ok first of all - these kind of community funds would be used for very focused purposes. for eg : enabling wimax internet services to the state or installation of Hydrogen fuel station units or starting a new train service between florida and california or starting subsidized health care centers etc etc. so the individual clearly know where the investment is going to be. 2)Every year the consortium that uses the funds - would declare the profit and loss statement so you know how much is earned and how much is spent. Lets say the consortium earned a total profit of 10000$ in the year 2012. 5000$ of that goes to the individuals and 5000$ goes to the consortium company. Ofcourse the consortium company has to make money too, so they wont spend the money in decorations and flower pots. like the example i gave you - google gives you 0% dividend on it's stock but people buy that stock in herds because they think there's some one else who's going to come and push up the price higher that they did.Btw if you are a google stock owner can you stop google from decorating their office with fancy toys? _____ just one thing - these funds are not used for setting up your next mcdonalds,unless ofcourse the entire state or country finds that as a priority. the aim of this kind of a fund is basically to setup up a decent standard of living in as many regions of the world as possible at a fair price,not to forget, atleast 75% of the world is still underdeveloped.
modified on Thursday, March 10, 2011 9:59 AM
-
ok first of all - these kind of community funds would be used for very focused purposes. for eg : enabling wimax internet services to the state or installation of Hydrogen fuel station units or starting a new train service between florida and california or starting subsidized health care centers etc etc. so the individual clearly know where the investment is going to be. 2)Every year the consortium that uses the funds - would declare the profit and loss statement so you know how much is earned and how much is spent. Lets say the consortium earned a total profit of 10000$ in the year 2012. 5000$ of that goes to the individuals and 5000$ goes to the consortium company. Ofcourse the consortium company has to make money too, so they wont spend the money in decorations and flower pots. like the example i gave you - google gives you 0% dividend on it's stock but people buy that stock in herds because they think there's some one else who's going to come and push up the price higher that they did.Btw if you are a google stock owner can you stop google from decorating their office with fancy toys? _____ just one thing - these funds are not used for setting up your next mcdonalds,unless ofcourse the entire state or country finds that as a priority. the aim of this kind of a fund is basically to setup up a decent standard of living in as many regions of the world as possible at a fair price,not to forget, atleast 75% of the world is still underdeveloped.
modified on Thursday, March 10, 2011 9:59 AM
You admit to not being a member of the financial industry, and it really shows. I am a member of the industry in the US: I work for a brokerage firm, and even though I am IT, I do have the Series 7 (investment representative) and Series 66 (investment advisor) licenses. And with that disclosure, I am obligated to say that I am not giving personalized investment, I am not in any way presenting myself as a lawyer or expert on US securities laws, past performance does not indicate future returns, growth of your investment is not guaranteed, and anything I say may be used against me in a court of law. :rolleyes: If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the fund managers would create small, community oriented corporations that would provide internet service or hydrogen fueling stations or a train service or some other for-profit activity, and then invest in those? I'm pretty sure that, under US securities laws at least, such an arrangement would be illegal. If you want to create a mutual fund that invests in existing and possible future community oriented for-profit corporations where there is no conflict-of-interest or other possible financial impropriety, that is different. Those kinds of mutual funds already exist, however, and like any mutual fund, they are heavily regulated. The rules are Byzantine because every new fraud case results in new rules being thrown on top of the existing ones in an effort to close loopholes. To even make a proposal, you need to be a licensed securities dealer under the regulatory supervision of a licensed firm and with the firm's permission, and very few firms will give that permission. My apologies for being harsh, but the realities are pretty stark. Unless you can address the issues I brought up above, chances are very high that you will never see any investors, at least not investors with sense. And if you are in the US, even making the proposal outside of proper channels could put you in violation with securities laws.
-
You admit to not being a member of the financial industry, and it really shows. I am a member of the industry in the US: I work for a brokerage firm, and even though I am IT, I do have the Series 7 (investment representative) and Series 66 (investment advisor) licenses. And with that disclosure, I am obligated to say that I am not giving personalized investment, I am not in any way presenting myself as a lawyer or expert on US securities laws, past performance does not indicate future returns, growth of your investment is not guaranteed, and anything I say may be used against me in a court of law. :rolleyes: If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the fund managers would create small, community oriented corporations that would provide internet service or hydrogen fueling stations or a train service or some other for-profit activity, and then invest in those? I'm pretty sure that, under US securities laws at least, such an arrangement would be illegal. If you want to create a mutual fund that invests in existing and possible future community oriented for-profit corporations where there is no conflict-of-interest or other possible financial impropriety, that is different. Those kinds of mutual funds already exist, however, and like any mutual fund, they are heavily regulated. The rules are Byzantine because every new fraud case results in new rules being thrown on top of the existing ones in an effort to close loopholes. To even make a proposal, you need to be a licensed securities dealer under the regulatory supervision of a licensed firm and with the firm's permission, and very few firms will give that permission. My apologies for being harsh, but the realities are pretty stark. Unless you can address the issues I brought up above, chances are very high that you will never see any investors, at least not investors with sense. And if you are in the US, even making the proposal outside of proper channels could put you in violation with securities laws.
Thanks for killing this one, got to it way before me.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" — Hunter S. Thompson
-
You admit to not being a member of the financial industry, and it really shows. I am a member of the industry in the US: I work for a brokerage firm, and even though I am IT, I do have the Series 7 (investment representative) and Series 66 (investment advisor) licenses. And with that disclosure, I am obligated to say that I am not giving personalized investment, I am not in any way presenting myself as a lawyer or expert on US securities laws, past performance does not indicate future returns, growth of your investment is not guaranteed, and anything I say may be used against me in a court of law. :rolleyes: If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the fund managers would create small, community oriented corporations that would provide internet service or hydrogen fueling stations or a train service or some other for-profit activity, and then invest in those? I'm pretty sure that, under US securities laws at least, such an arrangement would be illegal. If you want to create a mutual fund that invests in existing and possible future community oriented for-profit corporations where there is no conflict-of-interest or other possible financial impropriety, that is different. Those kinds of mutual funds already exist, however, and like any mutual fund, they are heavily regulated. The rules are Byzantine because every new fraud case results in new rules being thrown on top of the existing ones in an effort to close loopholes. To even make a proposal, you need to be a licensed securities dealer under the regulatory supervision of a licensed firm and with the firm's permission, and very few firms will give that permission. My apologies for being harsh, but the realities are pretty stark. Unless you can address the issues I brought up above, chances are very high that you will never see any investors, at least not investors with sense. And if you are in the US, even making the proposal outside of proper channels could put you in violation with securities laws.
ok lets forget the financial disclosures and laws an regulations related to the mutual fund and financial services community. there are 3 entities here. 1) Individual 2) Technology company -Consortium 3) The dummy -(without power) financial services facilitator. lets take a real world eg IBM is good at Enabling Wimax or HSDPA..4G internet. but they are not going to risk setting up internet infrastructure all over US,Europe,India,china... .So they come forward with an ad in the paper saying "individuals from "x states and y countries" may invest in an IBM Consortium Account.(50% owner IBM. 50% Owner Public).Remember the mutual fund guys are not in the picture as yet. so a large nos of people in florida see this ad and say - hey i think florida needs better internet coverage and people are ready to use it. SO 5 million residents of florida apply to IBM though a financial services facilitator or any reputed financial services firm.All that the Financial services firm does s to take the money from the 5 million individuals and hands it over to IBM.The financial firms dont setup any consortium. IBM Takes the money and starts operating the entire operations from a IBM-Florida Public limited company ACCOUNT and discloses the profit and loss statement of the company every year. at the end of the year. the profits of the year are divided equally between IBM and the florida individuals.IBM Manages the day to day operations - hires people to get things going at florida or even outsources work to other local companies. ____________ think of todays scenario - IBM doesn't even know that people in florida want internet services and so many people are ready to opt for it.IBM might not even think about investing in florida. now in the community mutual fund scenario - both the parties - the individuals and IBM know that if people dont use internet , the operations might be in the red and no one would get returns.so it's like an agreement - if somany people are ready to use internet and so many people are ready to have their earnings from the internet infrastructure - there's a High probability that a florida operations would definitely be started. ________________ one other thing - we dont even need the fund manager if IBM is ready to employ people to handle all the financial transactions for the entire operation.I hope i was clearer.
modified on Thursday, March 10, 2011 12:04 PM