A question for people in the US
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I'm a C++ developer. I live in a backwater, so I get less here than I would for the same job on the mainland. Christian #include "std_disclaimer.h" People who love sausage and respect the law should never watch either one being made. The things that come to those who wait are usually the things left by those who got there first.
$20,000USD in Southern California? I don't think so... Maybe if you ride your bike to work & rented a room. ;) The jobs around here may pay a bit better, but the cost of living is _so_ much higher than even the rest of the country. A quick search came up with this interesting international salary calulator http://www.homefair.com/calc/intsalcalc.html?NETSCAPE\_LIVEWIRE.src=homefair
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I reckon 20K 'ed be right good red-neck wages. You could afford a trailer, though probly not a double wide, an old pickup, a bass buggy, a dog, an assault rifle and a couple of illigitimate kids, though you might have to dump one of the kids on grandma if you wanted to keep stocked up on beer and ammo for the rifle. You couldn't take a vacation up the coast, but you could have a dang good time get'n drunk down at the nearest farm pond and trying to shoot the heads off snap'n turtles when they come up for air. (That's how I plan on spending my retirement.)
ROFL :-D That's very funny. You seem very familiar with that lifestyle; or perhaps you just have a great imagination. Thanx for the humor.
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I'm a C++ developer. I live in a backwater, so I get less here than I would for the same job on the mainland. Christian #include "std_disclaimer.h" People who love sausage and respect the law should never watch either one being made. The things that come to those who wait are usually the things left by those who got there first.
I'd say that a C++ developer with several years of experience should be making a minimum of $50K/year anywhere in the US. Anyone with experience making less than that needs to ask for a raise or switch jobs.
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I was depressed again in filling out the survey to note that my earnings ( $44k give or take ), equates to just over $20k US. $20K Australian is probably what a factory worker or office junior makes and is enough for a house in the outer suburbs, a used car and a holiday up the coast every couple of years. The question is, what does $20K US get you, in terms of lifestyle ? Is it proportionate to our relative dollars, or not ? Christian #include "std_disclaimer.h" People who love sausage and respect the law should never watch either one being made. The things that come to those who wait are usually the things left by those who got there first.
20k wouldn't go very far in Silicon Valley/Bay Area. For my modest apartment, I pay nearly 20k as rent per year. --------------- Dan Ammasai ---------------
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I was depressed again in filling out the survey to note that my earnings ( $44k give or take ), equates to just over $20k US. $20K Australian is probably what a factory worker or office junior makes and is enough for a house in the outer suburbs, a used car and a holiday up the coast every couple of years. The question is, what does $20K US get you, in terms of lifestyle ? Is it proportionate to our relative dollars, or not ? Christian #include "std_disclaimer.h" People who love sausage and respect the law should never watch either one being made. The things that come to those who wait are usually the things left by those who got there first.
sounds a little low for what you describe. maybe $35K will get you that small house, used car, small vacation. i'd be much more cofident saying $45K, though. -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
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Here's a question - does the US government pay women to raise a tribe of bastard children who never know which of their uncles is their father ? Because in Australia, there is a single mothers payment that increases per child. I'm sure some women rely on this payment for reasons beyond their control, but there are certainly also dero whores who breed for a living. Recently we had huge political uproar because a single woman wanted to have a child through IVF on the basis that she didn't want to have sex. She felt it was a violation of her rights that this was refused. What rights ? The right for my tax dollars to pay for her to be fertilized because she's a man hater ? The right for my tax dollars to pay to raise the child ? Or the right to have my house robbed by her mixed up kid in sixteen years, because it was a boy and she hated him too ? In a sense I am glad - I'd rather have my taxes pay welfare to worthless individuals than for the safety net to be so tight that people who deserve a hand are cut out. But it still makes you wonder, doesn't it ? Christian #include "std_disclaimer.h" People who love sausage and respect the law should never watch either one being made. The things that come to those who wait are usually the things left by those who got there first.
yes, we have something similar. we call them "welfare mothers", as in Neil Young's song, "Welfare Mothers Make Better Lovers". -c ------------------------------ Smaller Animals Software, Inc. http://www.smalleranimals.com
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Here's a question - does the US government pay women to raise a tribe of bastard children who never know which of their uncles is their father ? Because in Australia, there is a single mothers payment that increases per child. I'm sure some women rely on this payment for reasons beyond their control, but there are certainly also dero whores who breed for a living. Recently we had huge political uproar because a single woman wanted to have a child through IVF on the basis that she didn't want to have sex. She felt it was a violation of her rights that this was refused. What rights ? The right for my tax dollars to pay for her to be fertilized because she's a man hater ? The right for my tax dollars to pay to raise the child ? Or the right to have my house robbed by her mixed up kid in sixteen years, because it was a boy and she hated him too ? In a sense I am glad - I'd rather have my taxes pay welfare to worthless individuals than for the safety net to be so tight that people who deserve a hand are cut out. But it still makes you wonder, doesn't it ? Christian #include "std_disclaimer.h" People who love sausage and respect the law should never watch either one being made. The things that come to those who wait are usually the things left by those who got there first.
Well, now, that's sort of the problem with safety nets, isn't it? Either you are laying on them or they are laying on you. Either way, you just end up getting all tangled up in them like a rabbit in a snare. The question is this, do you want to be safe or do you want to be free? You can't be both.
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ROFL :-D That's very funny. You seem very familiar with that lifestyle; or perhaps you just have a great imagination. Thanx for the humor.
Nope, believe me, imagination has nothing to do with it. Been there, done that.
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Nope, believe me, imagination has nothing to do with it. Been there, done that.
Except for the illigitimate kid part.
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I was depressed again in filling out the survey to note that my earnings ( $44k give or take ), equates to just over $20k US. $20K Australian is probably what a factory worker or office junior makes and is enough for a house in the outer suburbs, a used car and a holiday up the coast every couple of years. The question is, what does $20K US get you, in terms of lifestyle ? Is it proportionate to our relative dollars, or not ? Christian #include "std_disclaimer.h" People who love sausage and respect the law should never watch either one being made. The things that come to those who wait are usually the things left by those who got there first.
$20K/yr would be considered very low for a software engineer in the Boston/Cambridge area. I reckon the starting salary (BS in Computer Science, little experience) at a large company in this part of the world would be $50K+. The salary for a sharp junior engineer (same qualifications) at a start-up (early-stage, well-funded software shop) would be about $15K higher. But I'm stressing "sharp", since their requirements are more stringent. Decent 6 figure salaries are the norm for experienced start-up engineers, but the hours aren't fun and you don't have a life outside work. All said and done, I think it might be unfair to equate A$/US$. The cost of living greatly influences the bottom line. Today, you'd be hard pressed to find a 3 bedroom house for less than $400k in the suburbs closer to Boston. It might be different where you live. Also, a 3 week vacation is the norm where I work, yet most of my friends in Europe and Oz get 6 weeks or more a year. Interestingly, consumer electronics, cars and gasoline seem to be cheaper in the US than these places. /ravi "There is always one more bug..." http://www.ravib.com ravib@ravib.com
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Well, now, that's sort of the problem with safety nets, isn't it? Either you are laying on them or they are laying on you. Either way, you just end up getting all tangled up in them like a rabbit in a snare. The question is this, do you want to be safe or do you want to be free? You can't be both.
I guess it depends who you ask. I'm happy to be free, but down the road in single mother heaven, I think they'd sing a different tune. I believe 40% of our taxes here are spent on welfare. I was reading yesterday that we spend a ton more on trying to stop welfare cheats than we save, and seen people suggest this means we should stop trying. Questions like how many more people would cheat if we didn't try to stop them ( I'd guess 99.99% of people would ) don't occur to such people. I sometimes wonder if it's our education system or if some people are just born plain stupid. Christian #include "std_disclaimer.h" People who love sausage and respect the law should never watch either one being made. The things that come to those who wait are usually the things left by those who got there first.
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I'd say that a C++ developer with several years of experience should be making a minimum of $50K/year anywhere in the US. Anyone with experience making less than that needs to ask for a raise or switch jobs.
hmmmmm.... I hope not that low... I managed to START at that... after a few years exp I hope to be making a little more per year..... just for comparison (as said before, no offense) I made about 23,000 waiting tables when i was 18 yrs old. Joseph Dempsey jdempsey@cox.rr.com Joseph.Dempsey@thermobio.com "Software Engineering is a race between the programmers, trying to make bigger and better fool-proof software, and the universe trying to make bigger fools. So far the Universe in winning." --anonymous
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$20K/yr would be considered very low for a software engineer in the Boston/Cambridge area. I reckon the starting salary (BS in Computer Science, little experience) at a large company in this part of the world would be $50K+. The salary for a sharp junior engineer (same qualifications) at a start-up (early-stage, well-funded software shop) would be about $15K higher. But I'm stressing "sharp", since their requirements are more stringent. Decent 6 figure salaries are the norm for experienced start-up engineers, but the hours aren't fun and you don't have a life outside work. All said and done, I think it might be unfair to equate A$/US$. The cost of living greatly influences the bottom line. Today, you'd be hard pressed to find a 3 bedroom house for less than $400k in the suburbs closer to Boston. It might be different where you live. Also, a 3 week vacation is the norm where I work, yet most of my friends in Europe and Oz get 6 weeks or more a year. Interestingly, consumer electronics, cars and gasoline seem to be cheaper in the US than these places. /ravi "There is always one more bug..." http://www.ravib.com ravib@ravib.com
starting salary would be $50K... That's so depressing :( Still - my 4 bedroom house in Canberra cost me around $US 47K :D cheers, Chris Maunder
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starting salary would be $50K... That's so depressing :( Still - my 4 bedroom house in Canberra cost me around $US 47K :D cheers, Chris Maunder
Wow Chris! The average over here is £100,000. For a 4 bed semi in the South East its more like £180,000. That's a few A$ I reckon. Andy Metcalfe - Sonardyne International Ltd
(andy.metcalfe@lineone.net)
http://www.resorg.co.uk"I used to be a medieval re-enactor, but I'm (nearly) alright now..."
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starting salary would be $50K... That's so depressing :( Still - my 4 bedroom house in Canberra cost me around $US 47K :D cheers, Chris Maunder
OK, Chris A bare tin shack with a metal roof, no windows and a bare dirt floor in Silicon Valley goes for $350,000 USD Just kidding, but in Southern California you have to pay $1 million USD for a single-family home that's not too particularly nice. Myself? I pay rent with three other people and don't drive -- suits me fine. Brian Sincerely Yours, Brian Hart "And that's the news from Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, the men are good-looking, and the children are above-average." - Garrison Keillor
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starting salary would be $50K... That's so depressing :( Still - my 4 bedroom house in Canberra cost me around $US 47K :D cheers, Chris Maunder
Gosh - Canberra prices are not so bad then. In Hobart my three bedroom home cost us the equivalant of US$35k. I'd have thought Canberra would be far above Hobart in land prices. Is there plenty of work in Canberra ? ( of course, my ex wife lives there, so maybe not... ) Christian #include "std_disclaimer.h" People who love sausage and respect the law should never watch either one being made. The things that come to those who wait are usually the things left by those who got there first.
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Gosh - Canberra prices are not so bad then. In Hobart my three bedroom home cost us the equivalant of US$35k. I'd have thought Canberra would be far above Hobart in land prices. Is there plenty of work in Canberra ? ( of course, my ex wife lives there, so maybe not... ) Christian #include "std_disclaimer.h" People who love sausage and respect the law should never watch either one being made. The things that come to those who wait are usually the things left by those who got there first.
Canberra prices have jumped a lot in the last 2 years (since I bought - well, got the bank to buy - my place). My 90K place is now worth maybe 160K (appreciation + endless nights and weekends renovating it. Two friends have recently bought and they paid over $280K for a nice house in a reasonable area. As to work - I'm not sure. Last I heard there was still tons. Most of it would, I guess, be outsourced govie work. cheers, Chris Maunder
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starting salary would be $50K... That's so depressing :( Still - my 4 bedroom house in Canberra cost me around $US 47K :D cheers, Chris Maunder
Comm'n people, it's not possible to purchase house for that kind of money in Australia. Minimum in Melbourne would be over 120K (australian, which is 60K US), for a ruin somewhere far away. More likely 200+K for a proper house, 30km from CBD. It goes to 400+K in inner suburbs.
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starting salary would be $50K... That's so depressing :( Still - my 4 bedroom house in Canberra cost me around $US 47K :D cheers, Chris Maunder
Just for purposes of comparison here in the states - in 1992 my wife and I bought a small (<1000 sq ft) 3 bedroom house in Heber City, Utah for ~70K, and sold it 7 years later for about twice that, moved to rural Indiana and bought a larger (~3000 sq ft) 5 bedroom house for ~160k. I thought that was a little high, but we loved the location and the house, so we did not argue too much.
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$20K/yr would be considered very low for a software engineer in the Boston/Cambridge area. I reckon the starting salary (BS in Computer Science, little experience) at a large company in this part of the world would be $50K+. The salary for a sharp junior engineer (same qualifications) at a start-up (early-stage, well-funded software shop) would be about $15K higher. But I'm stressing "sharp", since their requirements are more stringent. Decent 6 figure salaries are the norm for experienced start-up engineers, but the hours aren't fun and you don't have a life outside work. All said and done, I think it might be unfair to equate A$/US$. The cost of living greatly influences the bottom line. Today, you'd be hard pressed to find a 3 bedroom house for less than $400k in the suburbs closer to Boston. It might be different where you live. Also, a 3 week vacation is the norm where I work, yet most of my friends in Europe and Oz get 6 weeks or more a year. Interestingly, consumer electronics, cars and gasoline seem to be cheaper in the US than these places. /ravi "There is always one more bug..." http://www.ravib.com ravib@ravib.com
House prices here in sydney aren't much different if you ignore the fact that AU$1 = some scraping of US cents.... The place I'm in at the moment (renting, with 2 other people) is considered large for the area, but it's still a townhouse, 2 common walls, no yard etc. It goes up for auction in 2 days and is expected to get about $600k, we were paying $25k a year rent, it was about to jump to $30k but the owners decided to sell instead As it's being sold, we're moving further out from the CBD to a place worth $320k, a large (for Sydney) 3 bedroom villa (like a townhouse really) but it's getting closer to "the boonies" (I'm assuming only Aussies will understand that :) With regards to salary, I'm on a middle income of just under 50k, both my flatmates ate on higher. That's with 2 years experience and a comp sci degree. I came from Adelaide where the same job would pay about $40k To give some perspective to the rise in property values, 3 years ago our current place was valued at $300k less than it is now, my girlfriends parenty are selling their place they bought for $75k 15 years ago. It will fetch over $500k..... :eek: Senior Test Engineer GLI Australia www.gli.com.au
