I'm ashamed to be a noobie
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Well you are American (like me) so you probably suck at puns (like me) but I'm sure you know a few crap jokes so you can contribute that way! :)
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Seriously, I know this has been talked about over and over here and on many other forums. But the amount of "gimme code" posts I see now make me ashamed to be considered a noobie to programming. It makes me ever more hesitant to even bother to ask a question myself because I hate to be associated with that behavior. I mean it's horribly lazy, insulting and just pure ignorant to try and grab a block of code , cut and paste into project, and then say "your code didn't work, why?" Is it so terribly hard to do a little reading? I myself will spend at least a few days and probably read over 200 websites and blogs/posts/tutorials before giving in and asking for help. Would it really kill some of these lazy people to read at LEAST two or three? Yeah I know I'm ranting and beating that dead horse with that same ole stick, but I read a new one this morning on CP that had two different back to back "gimmes" and it really pisses me off because I try to LEARN what I'm doing not just hack together blocks of a dozen other peoples code to make something work.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
Good for you. Even if they cut/paste a piece of code the chances are it may not work in their situation and then they have to troubleshoot someone else's code.
Semper Fi http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^]
www.jaxcoder.com[^] WinHeist -
What if I'm an a**hole without the troll part? can i still make it? hehe
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
gavindon wrote:
What if I'm an a**hole without the troll part? can i still make it? hehe
That's the spirit! Now you've earned my 5 :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Good for you. Even if they cut/paste a piece of code the chances are it may not work in their situation and then they have to troubleshoot someone else's code.
Semper Fi http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^]
www.jaxcoder.com[^] WinHeistnot going to lie and say I've never used cut and paste. But the few times I have I at least take the time to break it down and understand what the code Does since it normally has to be modified to work for my specific project anyway. More often than not if i find a piece of actual code that is relevant I will paste it into a quick test project by itself so that I can do that very thing. Then write my own code based off of it in my actual project.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
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Seriously, I know this has been talked about over and over here and on many other forums. But the amount of "gimme code" posts I see now make me ashamed to be considered a noobie to programming. It makes me ever more hesitant to even bother to ask a question myself because I hate to be associated with that behavior. I mean it's horribly lazy, insulting and just pure ignorant to try and grab a block of code , cut and paste into project, and then say "your code didn't work, why?" Is it so terribly hard to do a little reading? I myself will spend at least a few days and probably read over 200 websites and blogs/posts/tutorials before giving in and asking for help. Would it really kill some of these lazy people to read at LEAST two or three? Yeah I know I'm ranting and beating that dead horse with that same ole stick, but I read a new one this morning on CP that had two different back to back "gimmes" and it really pisses me off because I try to LEARN what I'm doing not just hack together blocks of a dozen other peoples code to make something work.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
better a noobie than a boobie.
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Seriously, I know this has been talked about over and over here and on many other forums. But the amount of "gimme code" posts I see now make me ashamed to be considered a noobie to programming. It makes me ever more hesitant to even bother to ask a question myself because I hate to be associated with that behavior. I mean it's horribly lazy, insulting and just pure ignorant to try and grab a block of code , cut and paste into project, and then say "your code didn't work, why?" Is it so terribly hard to do a little reading? I myself will spend at least a few days and probably read over 200 websites and blogs/posts/tutorials before giving in and asking for help. Would it really kill some of these lazy people to read at LEAST two or three? Yeah I know I'm ranting and beating that dead horse with that same ole stick, but I read a new one this morning on CP that had two different back to back "gimmes" and it really pisses me off because I try to LEARN what I'm doing not just hack together blocks of a dozen other peoples code to make something work.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
I think you will be just fine.:thumbsup:
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Seriously, I know this has been talked about over and over here and on many other forums. But the amount of "gimme code" posts I see now make me ashamed to be considered a noobie to programming. It makes me ever more hesitant to even bother to ask a question myself because I hate to be associated with that behavior. I mean it's horribly lazy, insulting and just pure ignorant to try and grab a block of code , cut and paste into project, and then say "your code didn't work, why?" Is it so terribly hard to do a little reading? I myself will spend at least a few days and probably read over 200 websites and blogs/posts/tutorials before giving in and asking for help. Would it really kill some of these lazy people to read at LEAST two or three? Yeah I know I'm ranting and beating that dead horse with that same ole stick, but I read a new one this morning on CP that had two different back to back "gimmes" and it really pisses me off because I try to LEARN what I'm doing not just hack together blocks of a dozen other peoples code to make something work.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
Being a noobie is nothing to be ashamed of: all of us started there, and it is an easy condition to fix with a bit of time and dedication. Being a lazy twit incapable of even the appearance of effort, on the other hand.... Please do not confuse the two. ;) Welcome to CP.
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not going to lie and say I've never used cut and paste. But the few times I have I at least take the time to break it down and understand what the code Does since it normally has to be modified to work for my specific project anyway. More often than not if i find a piece of actual code that is relevant I will paste it into a quick test project by itself so that I can do that very thing. Then write my own code based off of it in my actual project.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
Exactly right. I think everyone on here at one time or another has cut some code and used it but knowing what it does so you can use it in you instance is vital. When I do cut/paste I take the time to add comments and reference where I got it and if available the author.
Semper Fi http://www.hq4thmarinescomm.com[^]
www.jaxcoder.com[^] WinHeist -
Seriously, I know this has been talked about over and over here and on many other forums. But the amount of "gimme code" posts I see now make me ashamed to be considered a noobie to programming. It makes me ever more hesitant to even bother to ask a question myself because I hate to be associated with that behavior. I mean it's horribly lazy, insulting and just pure ignorant to try and grab a block of code , cut and paste into project, and then say "your code didn't work, why?" Is it so terribly hard to do a little reading? I myself will spend at least a few days and probably read over 200 websites and blogs/posts/tutorials before giving in and asking for help. Would it really kill some of these lazy people to read at LEAST two or three? Yeah I know I'm ranting and beating that dead horse with that same ole stick, but I read a new one this morning on CP that had two different back to back "gimmes" and it really pisses me off because I try to LEARN what I'm doing not just hack together blocks of a dozen other peoples code to make something work.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
Don't be afraid to post questions, I still do and I don't consider myself a noob at all. I had to talk to my gf about this, she is learning to code but sees the response from people trying to answer, and they are so jaded from "urgentz" that it discourages actual noobs to seek help. btw, she does not use CP.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" — Hunter S. Thompson
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What if I'm an a**hole without the troll part? can i still make it? hehe
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
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Seriously, I know this has been talked about over and over here and on many other forums. But the amount of "gimme code" posts I see now make me ashamed to be considered a noobie to programming. It makes me ever more hesitant to even bother to ask a question myself because I hate to be associated with that behavior. I mean it's horribly lazy, insulting and just pure ignorant to try and grab a block of code , cut and paste into project, and then say "your code didn't work, why?" Is it so terribly hard to do a little reading? I myself will spend at least a few days and probably read over 200 websites and blogs/posts/tutorials before giving in and asking for help. Would it really kill some of these lazy people to read at LEAST two or three? Yeah I know I'm ranting and beating that dead horse with that same ole stick, but I read a new one this morning on CP that had two different back to back "gimmes" and it really pisses me off because I try to LEARN what I'm doing not just hack together blocks of a dozen other peoples code to make something work.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
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well I didn't even want to be associated with even Typing those words... lol I've been a member at CP for a year and half. give or take a couple months. I just recently started to even poke my head out of the sand as I just graduated in December. I now work at my first job(in IT) and managed to land a job where I am the ONLY developer at this company . seriously not one other person who even knows what code looks like. I have to design, write the code, build the database etc etc..So yeah I'm in waaay over my head but have managed to get projects done and they work. Even though I'm pretty sure my code comments would drive a real programmer crazy and that I have tons of spaghetti logic. I do spend lots of time on CP, There are some great articles and great responses by some of the people here and I have learned a lot just by reading instead of asking. When I ask a question it might seem simple or maybe even stupid to some of you guys, but I promise when I ask one I am well and truly stumped.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
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well I didn't even want to be associated with even Typing those words... lol I've been a member at CP for a year and half. give or take a couple months. I just recently started to even poke my head out of the sand as I just graduated in December. I now work at my first job(in IT) and managed to land a job where I am the ONLY developer at this company . seriously not one other person who even knows what code looks like. I have to design, write the code, build the database etc etc..So yeah I'm in waaay over my head but have managed to get projects done and they work. Even though I'm pretty sure my code comments would drive a real programmer crazy and that I have tons of spaghetti logic. I do spend lots of time on CP, There are some great articles and great responses by some of the people here and I have learned a lot just by reading instead of asking. When I ask a question it might seem simple or maybe even stupid to some of you guys, but I promise when I ask one I am well and truly stumped.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
gavindon wrote:
When I ask a question it might seem simple or maybe even stupid to some of you guys
I, for one, see a huge difference between ignorance and stupidity. If you can show that you've at least used a debugger to step through some code (ie, "I get this odd error message from api function X"), and done a smidgeon of research, then you'll find people here falling over to help you. I was in your shoes a while back - some of were in them longer ago... Iain.
I am one of "those foreigners coming over here and stealing our jobs". Yay me!
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gavindon wrote:
When I ask a question it might seem simple or maybe even stupid to some of you guys
I, for one, see a huge difference between ignorance and stupidity. If you can show that you've at least used a debugger to step through some code (ie, "I get this odd error message from api function X"), and done a smidgeon of research, then you'll find people here falling over to help you. I was in your shoes a while back - some of were in them longer ago... Iain.
I am one of "those foreigners coming over here and stealing our jobs". Yay me!
Well count me as truly ignorant then. I've had two years of school. Yes I excelled compared to everybody else in my classes, that's not necessarily saying a lot. I had very basic instruction in c++, even less in vb and basic in java. Then data structures and that pretty much covers the programming for my degree. Since I graduated in December, I've taught myself more in asp.net with c# code behind than I learned about all the others combined in school. But I'm still ignorant as heck.. And at 40 years old, its not as easy as it would have been years ago.. lol I'm learning fast though and appreciate your guys comments to this thread. I will surely be a regular here on CP from now on and as I said further down, I hope to be able to contribute myself one day in the not to distant future.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
-
Seriously, I know this has been talked about over and over here and on many other forums. But the amount of "gimme code" posts I see now make me ashamed to be considered a noobie to programming. It makes me ever more hesitant to even bother to ask a question myself because I hate to be associated with that behavior. I mean it's horribly lazy, insulting and just pure ignorant to try and grab a block of code , cut and paste into project, and then say "your code didn't work, why?" Is it so terribly hard to do a little reading? I myself will spend at least a few days and probably read over 200 websites and blogs/posts/tutorials before giving in and asking for help. Would it really kill some of these lazy people to read at LEAST two or three? Yeah I know I'm ranting and beating that dead horse with that same ole stick, but I read a new one this morning on CP that had two different back to back "gimmes" and it really pisses me off because I try to LEARN what I'm doing not just hack together blocks of a dozen other peoples code to make something work.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
Give the laziest man the hardest job and he will find the easiest way to do it. The gimme shame belongs to parents who are emotionally unavailable for their children.
Dwayne J. Baldwin
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Seriously, I know this has been talked about over and over here and on many other forums. But the amount of "gimme code" posts I see now make me ashamed to be considered a noobie to programming. It makes me ever more hesitant to even bother to ask a question myself because I hate to be associated with that behavior. I mean it's horribly lazy, insulting and just pure ignorant to try and grab a block of code , cut and paste into project, and then say "your code didn't work, why?" Is it so terribly hard to do a little reading? I myself will spend at least a few days and probably read over 200 websites and blogs/posts/tutorials before giving in and asking for help. Would it really kill some of these lazy people to read at LEAST two or three? Yeah I know I'm ranting and beating that dead horse with that same ole stick, but I read a new one this morning on CP that had two different back to back "gimmes" and it really pisses me off because I try to LEARN what I'm doing not just hack together blocks of a dozen other peoples code to make something work.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
First, let me tell you you are not a noob, you are a newb (or newbie). The former is a derogative term normally used for people who not only don't know about things, but also behave in an unappropriate way considering their lack of knowledge. The latter may know just as little, but strives to improve and do things right within the limits of his abilities. That's what you do, and there is nothing to be ashamed of - everyone started out as a newb at some point. And I am quite sure nobody here has any problems helping out someone willing to learn. Ok, that may just be one way of interpreting the variant spellings, but I found that this understanding is generally widespread. I do agree that many of the questions I see posted could be answered satisfactorily by a simple search on CP or the interwebs. That said, sometimes, when I have a question about a field that I have absolutely zip knowledge of, I find it hard to select the relevant answers from the hundreds of pages of search results, leaving me confused on a heap of contradictory and often misleading information. As a result, I do find it easier to ask on an expert forum such as CP and discuss the answers with their authors to better understand the reaasoning and help decide the value of the information. Also, I grew up in a time when there was no internet to search for fast answers, instead I had to read books and manuals, and sometimes even check out a library :omg: ! But I do understand that nowadays children grow up with the knowledge that the internet is just around the corner, and the answer is just a posting away. That is quite a different mentality, and I do not claim I completely understand the way these 'young people' think, but it appears many of them grew up with the realisation that asking on a forum gets more relevant results, and with less effort than searching the web. For these reasons I do feel some sympathy even for requests like those you mentioned. When I do post answers though, I usually try to give an explanation rather than an actual solution (although I might do both). Probably I'm more tolerant than others. I tend to assume the best intentions, and even if appearances hint otherwise, I might take the time to point out how best to search for appropriate answers, or why many people may find their way of asking offensive. (ok, you may find little of that from me on this forum, I'm just not very active here, but that's what I do just about anywhere else)
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Well count me as truly ignorant then. I've had two years of school. Yes I excelled compared to everybody else in my classes, that's not necessarily saying a lot. I had very basic instruction in c++, even less in vb and basic in java. Then data structures and that pretty much covers the programming for my degree. Since I graduated in December, I've taught myself more in asp.net with c# code behind than I learned about all the others combined in school. But I'm still ignorant as heck.. And at 40 years old, its not as easy as it would have been years ago.. lol I'm learning fast though and appreciate your guys comments to this thread. I will surely be a regular here on CP from now on and as I said further down, I hope to be able to contribute myself one day in the not to distant future.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
<blockquote class="FQ"><div class="FQA">gavindon wrote:</div>And at 40 years old, its not as easy as it would have been years ago.</blockquote> Imagine what I feel like at my age (68) trying to learn ASP.NET MVC and C#, at home, on my own. I just started to understand MVC 1 and then MVC 2 was released. Having got to grips with that, MVC 3 is released. The same is true with EF Code First with CTP3 then CTP4 then CTP5. Each of these releases meant a revisit to code you had already written. I've been used to Fortran, Visual Basic, MS Access VBA and other languages where everything could be read up in a couple of manuals. With ASP.NET these days, I bet there is not a single User that understands the complete language. Everyone finds the part that works for them. It may not be the most efficient but it works. The problem then occurs when you try and get help via forums. Someone answers the question using techniques you do not understand. The trouble is, it is never a complete solution. They assume that you have at least some understanding of the technique, which more often than not, you don't. A lot of the time, most?, the documentation can't be found in a single place. You have search in a blog here, a forum there, to find answers. And I find the Microsoft help system totally incomprehensible. It might be the perfect definition of a class and its objects, but to someone trying to find out how to use the function, forget it! And then there's the wife asking if you're going to help her in the garden. But I don't think I'll go there. Still, I shall plug on and try and master it.
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not going to lie and say I've never used cut and paste. But the few times I have I at least take the time to break it down and understand what the code Does since it normally has to be modified to work for my specific project anyway. More often than not if i find a piece of actual code that is relevant I will paste it into a quick test project by itself so that I can do that very thing. Then write my own code based off of it in my actual project.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
Almost imposible to have only cut and pasted. I never found code out there that fit my bill perfectly. It mostly showed me how to approach the problem or a specific technique. I always had to understand it and then adjust it to my needs. There's a difference between: 1. "give me some code to finnish my project" = ("make it work for me") = bad and 2. "give me some code that explains this concept so I can understand how its done" = laudable. Keep close, CP is good for you. Cheers.
giuchici
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<blockquote class="FQ"><div class="FQA">gavindon wrote:</div>And at 40 years old, its not as easy as it would have been years ago.</blockquote> Imagine what I feel like at my age (68) trying to learn ASP.NET MVC and C#, at home, on my own. I just started to understand MVC 1 and then MVC 2 was released. Having got to grips with that, MVC 3 is released. The same is true with EF Code First with CTP3 then CTP4 then CTP5. Each of these releases meant a revisit to code you had already written. I've been used to Fortran, Visual Basic, MS Access VBA and other languages where everything could be read up in a couple of manuals. With ASP.NET these days, I bet there is not a single User that understands the complete language. Everyone finds the part that works for them. It may not be the most efficient but it works. The problem then occurs when you try and get help via forums. Someone answers the question using techniques you do not understand. The trouble is, it is never a complete solution. They assume that you have at least some understanding of the technique, which more often than not, you don't. A lot of the time, most?, the documentation can't be found in a single place. You have search in a blog here, a forum there, to find answers. And I find the Microsoft help system totally incomprehensible. It might be the perfect definition of a class and its objects, but to someone trying to find out how to use the function, forget it! And then there's the wife asking if you're going to help her in the garden. But I don't think I'll go there. Still, I shall plug on and try and master it.
Understand the wife thing. Mine is pretty understanding though since when I started school we had a nice family discussion(also have 3 teenage boys) about what it was going to take for me to do this and the sacrifices everyone would have to make. However wives being what they are.. I still occasionally get the questions about when I'm going to do my chores.. My disadvantage compared to you is that up until 5 years ago I had never even owned a pc. I had no previous experience with anything to lean on so its been cold turkey all the way. But the challenge has been great, I've had many many moments of noob pride about "looky looky I made it work!!!!! " that gets my wifes eyes rolled up in the back of her head because she has zero clue what I'm blathering about. But I am greatly enjoying the challenge in moving forward and will learn to be a real programmer yet.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
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First, let me tell you you are not a noob, you are a newb (or newbie). The former is a derogative term normally used for people who not only don't know about things, but also behave in an unappropriate way considering their lack of knowledge. The latter may know just as little, but strives to improve and do things right within the limits of his abilities. That's what you do, and there is nothing to be ashamed of - everyone started out as a newb at some point. And I am quite sure nobody here has any problems helping out someone willing to learn. Ok, that may just be one way of interpreting the variant spellings, but I found that this understanding is generally widespread. I do agree that many of the questions I see posted could be answered satisfactorily by a simple search on CP or the interwebs. That said, sometimes, when I have a question about a field that I have absolutely zip knowledge of, I find it hard to select the relevant answers from the hundreds of pages of search results, leaving me confused on a heap of contradictory and often misleading information. As a result, I do find it easier to ask on an expert forum such as CP and discuss the answers with their authors to better understand the reaasoning and help decide the value of the information. Also, I grew up in a time when there was no internet to search for fast answers, instead I had to read books and manuals, and sometimes even check out a library :omg: ! But I do understand that nowadays children grow up with the knowledge that the internet is just around the corner, and the answer is just a posting away. That is quite a different mentality, and I do not claim I completely understand the way these 'young people' think, but it appears many of them grew up with the realisation that asking on a forum gets more relevant results, and with less effort than searching the web. For these reasons I do feel some sympathy even for requests like those you mentioned. When I do post answers though, I usually try to give an explanation rather than an actual solution (although I might do both). Probably I'm more tolerant than others. I tend to assume the best intentions, and even if appearances hint otherwise, I might take the time to point out how best to search for appropriate answers, or why many people may find their way of asking offensive. (ok, you may find little of that from me on this forum, I'm just not very active here, but that's what I do just about anywhere else)
generally by the time I have the guts to ask for help, I have hit the end of my rope for sure. Once I have a piece of code that is supposed to work, I will test it alone, break it down figure out how to change it and what each piece does. Then I can replicate with little trouble. Where I get stuck is when lack of knowledge prevents me from really even knowing where to start looking or what direction I need to take. Once I get pointed down the proper road I normally get there due to simply sheer bullheadedness, stubbornness and the fact that "give up" has never been in my vocabulary. I will probably die at the keyboard one day with code half written because I simply do not know when to quit.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
