I'm ashamed to be a noobie
-
not going to lie and say I've never used cut and paste. But the few times I have I at least take the time to break it down and understand what the code Does since it normally has to be modified to work for my specific project anyway. More often than not if i find a piece of actual code that is relevant I will paste it into a quick test project by itself so that I can do that very thing. Then write my own code based off of it in my actual project.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
Almost imposible to have only cut and pasted. I never found code out there that fit my bill perfectly. It mostly showed me how to approach the problem or a specific technique. I always had to understand it and then adjust it to my needs. There's a difference between: 1. "give me some code to finnish my project" = ("make it work for me") = bad and 2. "give me some code that explains this concept so I can understand how its done" = laudable. Keep close, CP is good for you. Cheers.
giuchici
-
<blockquote class="FQ"><div class="FQA">gavindon wrote:</div>And at 40 years old, its not as easy as it would have been years ago.</blockquote> Imagine what I feel like at my age (68) trying to learn ASP.NET MVC and C#, at home, on my own. I just started to understand MVC 1 and then MVC 2 was released. Having got to grips with that, MVC 3 is released. The same is true with EF Code First with CTP3 then CTP4 then CTP5. Each of these releases meant a revisit to code you had already written. I've been used to Fortran, Visual Basic, MS Access VBA and other languages where everything could be read up in a couple of manuals. With ASP.NET these days, I bet there is not a single User that understands the complete language. Everyone finds the part that works for them. It may not be the most efficient but it works. The problem then occurs when you try and get help via forums. Someone answers the question using techniques you do not understand. The trouble is, it is never a complete solution. They assume that you have at least some understanding of the technique, which more often than not, you don't. A lot of the time, most?, the documentation can't be found in a single place. You have search in a blog here, a forum there, to find answers. And I find the Microsoft help system totally incomprehensible. It might be the perfect definition of a class and its objects, but to someone trying to find out how to use the function, forget it! And then there's the wife asking if you're going to help her in the garden. But I don't think I'll go there. Still, I shall plug on and try and master it.
Understand the wife thing. Mine is pretty understanding though since when I started school we had a nice family discussion(also have 3 teenage boys) about what it was going to take for me to do this and the sacrifices everyone would have to make. However wives being what they are.. I still occasionally get the questions about when I'm going to do my chores.. My disadvantage compared to you is that up until 5 years ago I had never even owned a pc. I had no previous experience with anything to lean on so its been cold turkey all the way. But the challenge has been great, I've had many many moments of noob pride about "looky looky I made it work!!!!! " that gets my wifes eyes rolled up in the back of her head because she has zero clue what I'm blathering about. But I am greatly enjoying the challenge in moving forward and will learn to be a real programmer yet.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
-
First, let me tell you you are not a noob, you are a newb (or newbie). The former is a derogative term normally used for people who not only don't know about things, but also behave in an unappropriate way considering their lack of knowledge. The latter may know just as little, but strives to improve and do things right within the limits of his abilities. That's what you do, and there is nothing to be ashamed of - everyone started out as a newb at some point. And I am quite sure nobody here has any problems helping out someone willing to learn. Ok, that may just be one way of interpreting the variant spellings, but I found that this understanding is generally widespread. I do agree that many of the questions I see posted could be answered satisfactorily by a simple search on CP or the interwebs. That said, sometimes, when I have a question about a field that I have absolutely zip knowledge of, I find it hard to select the relevant answers from the hundreds of pages of search results, leaving me confused on a heap of contradictory and often misleading information. As a result, I do find it easier to ask on an expert forum such as CP and discuss the answers with their authors to better understand the reaasoning and help decide the value of the information. Also, I grew up in a time when there was no internet to search for fast answers, instead I had to read books and manuals, and sometimes even check out a library :omg: ! But I do understand that nowadays children grow up with the knowledge that the internet is just around the corner, and the answer is just a posting away. That is quite a different mentality, and I do not claim I completely understand the way these 'young people' think, but it appears many of them grew up with the realisation that asking on a forum gets more relevant results, and with less effort than searching the web. For these reasons I do feel some sympathy even for requests like those you mentioned. When I do post answers though, I usually try to give an explanation rather than an actual solution (although I might do both). Probably I'm more tolerant than others. I tend to assume the best intentions, and even if appearances hint otherwise, I might take the time to point out how best to search for appropriate answers, or why many people may find their way of asking offensive. (ok, you may find little of that from me on this forum, I'm just not very active here, but that's what I do just about anywhere else)
generally by the time I have the guts to ask for help, I have hit the end of my rope for sure. Once I have a piece of code that is supposed to work, I will test it alone, break it down figure out how to change it and what each piece does. Then I can replicate with little trouble. Where I get stuck is when lack of knowledge prevents me from really even knowing where to start looking or what direction I need to take. Once I get pointed down the proper road I normally get there due to simply sheer bullheadedness, stubbornness and the fact that "give up" has never been in my vocabulary. I will probably die at the keyboard one day with code half written because I simply do not know when to quit.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
-
Understand the wife thing. Mine is pretty understanding though since when I started school we had a nice family discussion(also have 3 teenage boys) about what it was going to take for me to do this and the sacrifices everyone would have to make. However wives being what they are.. I still occasionally get the questions about when I'm going to do my chores.. My disadvantage compared to you is that up until 5 years ago I had never even owned a pc. I had no previous experience with anything to lean on so its been cold turkey all the way. But the challenge has been great, I've had many many moments of noob pride about "looky looky I made it work!!!!! " that gets my wifes eyes rolled up in the back of her head because she has zero clue what I'm blathering about. But I am greatly enjoying the challenge in moving forward and will learn to be a real programmer yet.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
Just to give you hope... I gave my Dad his first computer when he was 76. After a couple of years playing around with it, he decided he was going to learn Office. So he went to college (1 day, 1 night) for two years and learnt Office, including Access. At 80, he decided he wanted to know more about the machine itself, so he did another 2 years at college learning how to build them. He now goes round maintaining his mates' machines. He's now 88!
-
Give the laziest man the hardest job and he will find the easiest way to do it. The gimme shame belongs to parents who are emotionally unavailable for their children.
Dwayne J. Baldwin
Agreed. Its a lack of pride in personal achievement. I see this evident in these forums, in almost any job I've ever had in the last 20 years and even in the gaming world(cheaters, hackers etc etc..). I used to play WOW hardcore and could for the life of me never understand the mentality of somebody who cheated then talked smack about what they accomplished. My thinking was, you didn't accomplish a damn thing you simply cheated. To me, pasting code found on sites like CP and not having a CLUE how it actually works,, amounts to cheating. Its the same mentality in my opinion. Especially when its to get through homework for school to earn a degree that I busted hump to get, then I get really pissed. That same person that cheated through school will go compete against me for the same jobs, and when he BS his way into one, will continue the cheating behavior and turn out crappy work. This can even go so far as to give a particular school a bad reputation. This has happened in the city I live in. The school I went to now has a horrible reputation for programmers due to that very fact. They are letting people pass that copy and pasted their way through class and those idiots have went out into the field and given the school a bad rep. Now when my silly butt goes for an interview I get walleyed looks simply because of school I attended. Luckily due to my personal work ethics and more than a couple of years of life experience, I ended up with some outstanding reference letters from instructors and a previous boss in IT. I have managed to get an underpaid position but its better than being unemployed. Soon I'll have enough experience to start commanding a better salary and then the cheaters can go serve fries at McDonald's while I make a good career and name for myself.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
-
Seriously, I know this has been talked about over and over here and on many other forums. But the amount of "gimme code" posts I see now make me ashamed to be considered a noobie to programming. It makes me ever more hesitant to even bother to ask a question myself because I hate to be associated with that behavior. I mean it's horribly lazy, insulting and just pure ignorant to try and grab a block of code , cut and paste into project, and then say "your code didn't work, why?" Is it so terribly hard to do a little reading? I myself will spend at least a few days and probably read over 200 websites and blogs/posts/tutorials before giving in and asking for help. Would it really kill some of these lazy people to read at LEAST two or three? Yeah I know I'm ranting and beating that dead horse with that same ole stick, but I read a new one this morning on CP that had two different back to back "gimmes" and it really pisses me off because I try to LEARN what I'm doing not just hack together blocks of a dozen other peoples code to make something work.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
OK, I'm late to the party and all the comments I might have made seem to have been made already, but well done you! I see you were a crane operator: bring the professionalism and attitude you learned in that job to your programming and you won't go far wrong.
gavindon wrote:
I mean it's horribly lazy, insulting and just pure ignorant to try and grab a block of code , cut and paste into project, and then say "your code didn't work, why?"
I'm a Chartered Engineer, not a professional programmer. What you need to do is apply the old engineering adage: If you're going to steal an idea, make sure it's a good one.
gavindon wrote:
Is it so terribly hard to do a little reading? I myself will spend at least a few days and probably read over 200 websites and blogs/posts/tutorials before giving in and asking for help.
Well, yes, it would seem so. For most of my career, I was in much the same position as you are in. I was - for at least part of the job - the 'expert' and I was expected to be fount of all knowledge in my field. Yes, it is harder than having everything handed to you on a plate, but at the end of the day it's rewarding too. And bear in mind for the most part I too am talking about the pre-internet era, so it was a lot harder then. From what I've seen of CodeProject, and you can see from the responses to your post, if you ask an intelligent question and show you've done some research, then - thanks to all those who are much better programmers than I'll ever be - you'll get loads of good free advice. Good luck, and have a 5 for attitude.
-
well I didn't even want to be associated with even Typing those words... lol I've been a member at CP for a year and half. give or take a couple months. I just recently started to even poke my head out of the sand as I just graduated in December. I now work at my first job(in IT) and managed to land a job where I am the ONLY developer at this company . seriously not one other person who even knows what code looks like. I have to design, write the code, build the database etc etc..So yeah I'm in waaay over my head but have managed to get projects done and they work. Even though I'm pretty sure my code comments would drive a real programmer crazy and that I have tons of spaghetti logic. I do spend lots of time on CP, There are some great articles and great responses by some of the people here and I have learned a lot just by reading instead of asking. When I ask a question it might seem simple or maybe even stupid to some of you guys, but I promise when I ask one I am well and truly stumped.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
gavindon wrote:
I am the ONLY developer at this company . seriously not one other person who even knows what code looks like. I have to design, write the code, build the database etc etc..
Although I have more experience than you, I am in EXACTLY the same position. And, even with experience, it's not a whole lot easier, let me tell you... The worst part is definitely not having anyone to talk to. Many programming problems can often be solved just by sitting down with people and talking it over. It's impossible for one person to know everything, and I really miss having a team. Of course, the other big issue, since no one understands code, they also don't understand how much WORK it takes to get everything done! I've seriously been given whole webpage campaigns only days before they were due to be released! 'Here, here is a brochure. We need a multi-page website done base on this. Oh, and we need it in 3 days, because that's when the program starts.' (true story) :wtf: But, on the bright side...the amount I have learned by being forced to do everything is huge. In just a couple of years, I feel I have learned more than the previous 5-6 years. So, if you can keep from going insane (I've come close! :mad:), you really can learn a lot.
When writing code, don't forget to account for Ewoks!
-
gavindon wrote:
I am the ONLY developer at this company . seriously not one other person who even knows what code looks like. I have to design, write the code, build the database etc etc..
Although I have more experience than you, I am in EXACTLY the same position. And, even with experience, it's not a whole lot easier, let me tell you... The worst part is definitely not having anyone to talk to. Many programming problems can often be solved just by sitting down with people and talking it over. It's impossible for one person to know everything, and I really miss having a team. Of course, the other big issue, since no one understands code, they also don't understand how much WORK it takes to get everything done! I've seriously been given whole webpage campaigns only days before they were due to be released! 'Here, here is a brochure. We need a multi-page website done base on this. Oh, and we need it in 3 days, because that's when the program starts.' (true story) :wtf: But, on the bright side...the amount I have learned by being forced to do everything is huge. In just a couple of years, I feel I have learned more than the previous 5-6 years. So, if you can keep from going insane (I've come close! :mad:), you really can learn a lot.
When writing code, don't forget to account for Ewoks!
agreed with all of the above, including the learning part. I am learning things that I would likely not get if i was in a team simply because I am having to do it all. Even though its tough leaning on google and no other programmers to bash ideas around with. What makes it worse is I'm also the IT support for over 70 store locations, The dang boss seems unable to comprehend that when I spend 6 hours removing viruses from pcs out in the field that that is 6 hours I'm NOT writing code. So in addition to being the entire programming team, I'm the DB admin, designer, developer, network admin, sharepoint developer, sharepoint admin, etc.. you get the picture. If it has anything to do with a pc or the network or software, I'm supposed to be god. That includes being the go between for our 3rd party POS software... I DREAD the days they do updates. All of this with being a whopping 4 months out of school with an associates degree and no prior experience. I spend a LOT of time researching on the internet for various issues. But so far have managed to survive and keep the boat from sinking for those 4 months now. lol but hey I always liked a challenge.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
-
better a noobie than a boobie.
-
Seriously, I know this has been talked about over and over here and on many other forums. But the amount of "gimme code" posts I see now make me ashamed to be considered a noobie to programming. It makes me ever more hesitant to even bother to ask a question myself because I hate to be associated with that behavior. I mean it's horribly lazy, insulting and just pure ignorant to try and grab a block of code , cut and paste into project, and then say "your code didn't work, why?" Is it so terribly hard to do a little reading? I myself will spend at least a few days and probably read over 200 websites and blogs/posts/tutorials before giving in and asking for help. Would it really kill some of these lazy people to read at LEAST two or three? Yeah I know I'm ranting and beating that dead horse with that same ole stick, but I read a new one this morning on CP that had two different back to back "gimmes" and it really pisses me off because I try to LEARN what I'm doing not just hack together blocks of a dozen other peoples code to make something work.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
It's no shame to ask, it's a shame not to try. Some people wants the helpers to make everything for them, really, they don't bother to try even if you put them into the right direction. These are the ones that give me cripples. Take this last question I answered on MSDN forums as example: http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/winforms/thread/ea4726a0-c43d-441a-b269-36b71f4b959d[^] :wtf:
-
Seriously, I know this has been talked about over and over here and on many other forums. But the amount of "gimme code" posts I see now make me ashamed to be considered a noobie to programming. It makes me ever more hesitant to even bother to ask a question myself because I hate to be associated with that behavior. I mean it's horribly lazy, insulting and just pure ignorant to try and grab a block of code , cut and paste into project, and then say "your code didn't work, why?" Is it so terribly hard to do a little reading? I myself will spend at least a few days and probably read over 200 websites and blogs/posts/tutorials before giving in and asking for help. Would it really kill some of these lazy people to read at LEAST two or three? Yeah I know I'm ranting and beating that dead horse with that same ole stick, but I read a new one this morning on CP that had two different back to back "gimmes" and it really pisses me off because I try to LEARN what I'm doing not just hack together blocks of a dozen other peoples code to make something work.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
Never be ashamed to be a noobie. Even the most experienced of us still need to ask noobie questions when learning a new paradigm. There is a vast difference between "Gimme codezz" and "This is what I have tried, but the documentation does not seem to address this case; Can anyone share any insight?". Better results will be obtained by providing a brief code sample to show what your understanding of the problem is.
Fletcher Glenn
-
Seriously, I know this has been talked about over and over here and on many other forums. But the amount of "gimme code" posts I see now make me ashamed to be considered a noobie to programming. It makes me ever more hesitant to even bother to ask a question myself because I hate to be associated with that behavior. I mean it's horribly lazy, insulting and just pure ignorant to try and grab a block of code , cut and paste into project, and then say "your code didn't work, why?" Is it so terribly hard to do a little reading? I myself will spend at least a few days and probably read over 200 websites and blogs/posts/tutorials before giving in and asking for help. Would it really kill some of these lazy people to read at LEAST two or three? Yeah I know I'm ranting and beating that dead horse with that same ole stick, but I read a new one this morning on CP that had two different back to back "gimmes" and it really pisses me off because I try to LEARN what I'm doing not just hack together blocks of a dozen other peoples code to make something work.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
guys when I posted this rant I expected maybe a couple of "sure they are a pain" responses. I did not expect all of this. It really made me feel good to have this kind of supportive responses and this is why I will be CP for life more than likely. And publishing in the newsletter? definitely did not expect that. Thanks everyone for your support and please feel free to ask for my assistance in anything you might need. Assuming I have a clue how to help I will be more than glad.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
-
Thank you and I look forward to the day I can actually contribute something to this great website. So far I mainly keep shut since I feel my advice is shaky at best and probably dead wrong at worst.. lol Its tough changing careers at my age but I enjoy it and love the challenge.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
Gavindon: I have been at it for years and still feel very uncertain when *giving* advice, so join the club. Obviously you are not a 'kodz-pleez' grabber, so don't worry about it. If someone does supply code, ask as many questions as you can as to WHY they did it THIS way. I find you get some amazing insights from why a programmer chose a certain direction, maybe as much as from the code itself.
-
well I didn't even want to be associated with even Typing those words... lol I've been a member at CP for a year and half. give or take a couple months. I just recently started to even poke my head out of the sand as I just graduated in December. I now work at my first job(in IT) and managed to land a job where I am the ONLY developer at this company . seriously not one other person who even knows what code looks like. I have to design, write the code, build the database etc etc..So yeah I'm in waaay over my head but have managed to get projects done and they work. Even though I'm pretty sure my code comments would drive a real programmer crazy and that I have tons of spaghetti logic. I do spend lots of time on CP, There are some great articles and great responses by some of the people here and I have learned a lot just by reading instead of asking. When I ask a question it might seem simple or maybe even stupid to some of you guys, but I promise when I ask one I am well and truly stumped.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
gavindon wrote:
well I didn't even want to be associated with even Typing those words..
There's a difference between being a newb and being a douche ;)
gavindon wrote:
I now work at my first job(in IT) and managed to land a job where I am the ONLY developer at this company .
Been there. Going from simple college projects to being responsible for getting code running in production, in a new language no less, is quite a challenge. It's a tough road but it's the fast track to being a senior level dev. At times I felt like I learned more in a day than some of my peers at other jobs learned in a month. The harder you work for the knowledge the stronger you'll retain it and the better you'll be at applying it. Don't worry too much about the 'gimme code' folk they're probably not going to get very far.
-
Just to give you hope... I gave my Dad his first computer when he was 76. After a couple of years playing around with it, he decided he was going to learn Office. So he went to college (1 day, 1 night) for two years and learnt Office, including Access. At 80, he decided he wanted to know more about the machine itself, so he did another 2 years at college learning how to build them. He now goes round maintaining his mates' machines. He's now 88!
No matter how long you've been doing this, you'll always be a noob at something. You're aiming for a dynamic list of moving targets that refresh themselves on a regular interval. I also find myself in the same position as you... I'm the only developer at my company. I suggest highly that you do some arm twisting and have your company take some money out of their training budget for you. Then, subscribe to an online training service that allows you to ask questions in a forum. I recommend PluralSight: http://www.pluralsight-training.net/microsoft/olt/Courses.aspx[^] That way, you have great examples and a forum that full time paid professionals monitor to help you over the hurdles. Its hard being a lone-ranger developer even when you know everything. There is much value in bouncing ideas (design, functionality, etc) off another person so I feel your pain.
Joel Palmer Data Integration Engineer
-
Seriously, I know this has been talked about over and over here and on many other forums. But the amount of "gimme code" posts I see now make me ashamed to be considered a noobie to programming. It makes me ever more hesitant to even bother to ask a question myself because I hate to be associated with that behavior. I mean it's horribly lazy, insulting and just pure ignorant to try and grab a block of code , cut and paste into project, and then say "your code didn't work, why?" Is it so terribly hard to do a little reading? I myself will spend at least a few days and probably read over 200 websites and blogs/posts/tutorials before giving in and asking for help. Would it really kill some of these lazy people to read at LEAST two or three? Yeah I know I'm ranting and beating that dead horse with that same ole stick, but I read a new one this morning on CP that had two different back to back "gimmes" and it really pisses me off because I try to LEARN what I'm doing not just hack together blocks of a dozen other peoples code to make something work.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning.
I like your tag line. Didn't you just answer your own question?
gavindon wrote:
so far... the universe is winning
Do not be ashamed! Yes, it is embarrassing to admit your a noobie, because it feels like you are in the same class of people who want things handed to them. Stop being embarrassed. You are NOT in the same class. I'm 57 and I always seem to find something to be a noobie at. It seems to be easier and easier to be one, as time goes on. (Most of the stuff I knew, seems irrelevant to most people. I find, knowing it helps you see the origins of new things and makes picking up new items easier.) You are on the right path. Research what you can, put that work into the project and it will start showing up later. Don't be afraid of asking questions. You'll brighten someone else's day when they can help someone else who has done their homework. (I will give a snarky reply to someone asking for a gimme.) You will find you appreciate the knowledge and help from others while the "gimme" people never seem to do so. A while ago, I signed up for classes because all my mainframe knowledge wasn't getting me a new job, and I needed to ramp up quickly in new technologies. My fees bought me my books, lab time whenever I wanted, and classes. The importance to me: 49% books, 49% lab, 2% classes. Books gave me the knowledge I needed, the lab gave me the physical interaction of the computer application I was learning, and the classes just verified what I already knew from the books/lab was correct and that I was on-track in my learning curve. The most important help I got from a teacher was when I was flat out stuck. That took 30 seconds of his time, 20 for me to ask, 10 for the answer. I was trying to update text boxes with intermediate results in a problem that had nothing to do with class and the boxes weren't showing my changes. His answer: "Oh, windows have to be idle to render changes, try threading and delegates." I had read a Windows book, cover to cover, and never knew that: "windows have to be idle to render changes". Note that he didn't hand me code, he handed me concepts. Probably because he saw I was mainly ignoring the code he was typing up on the screen when he was "teaching" class, and typing much more than what he was doing. (Monkey see, monkey do classes. I'd pay close attention in class when he covered something I hadn't read, or didn't quite get the concept of what I read)
-
OK, I'm late to the party and all the comments I might have made seem to have been made already, but well done you! I see you were a crane operator: bring the professionalism and attitude you learned in that job to your programming and you won't go far wrong.
gavindon wrote:
I mean it's horribly lazy, insulting and just pure ignorant to try and grab a block of code , cut and paste into project, and then say "your code didn't work, why?"
I'm a Chartered Engineer, not a professional programmer. What you need to do is apply the old engineering adage: If you're going to steal an idea, make sure it's a good one.
gavindon wrote:
Is it so terribly hard to do a little reading? I myself will spend at least a few days and probably read over 200 websites and blogs/posts/tutorials before giving in and asking for help.
Well, yes, it would seem so. For most of my career, I was in much the same position as you are in. I was - for at least part of the job - the 'expert' and I was expected to be fount of all knowledge in my field. Yes, it is harder than having everything handed to you on a plate, but at the end of the day it's rewarding too. And bear in mind for the most part I too am talking about the pre-internet era, so it was a lot harder then. From what I've seen of CodeProject, and you can see from the responses to your post, if you ask an intelligent question and show you've done some research, then - thanks to all those who are much better programmers than I'll ever be - you'll get loads of good free advice. Good luck, and have a 5 for attitude.
Really good points. I liked the adage
BarrRobot wrote:
If you're going to steal an idea, make sure it's a good one.
I graduated in Mechanical Engineering. That seemed to mainly deal with what had been written before and learning the ideas that are important to know. I'm not exactly sure how to do ANYTHING without using an existing idea and tweaking it to fit the case, and sometimes that's because you don't know that the exact case you are working on has already been solved. How often do you build something that someone hasn't told you to do? Aren't you "stealing" their idea and using it? Did they come up with that idea all by themselves in the first place? Just yesterday I was playing around with SSRS, made a bonehead change because the book wasn't too clear about what it was asking me to do. No idea that I had done something severely wrong, until I "previewed" my change. Whoops. Tried to undo it. Not happening, my changes were compiled and saved. I had an idea. No one else told me about it, so this is completely my idea: Wouldn't it make sense that if you are going to "preview" something, to have a way to NOT accept the change? Do I think that idea is original? No. Am I going to complain to MS about it? No. I don't feel like hearing about another design "feature" they have. The first time, it sure felt like a bug to me. In SQL 2005 that "feature" was gone and the code worked like I thought it should have in the first place. Did they ever make a mistake? Nooooo, it was "designed" to do what it did, they just "thought" up some "improvements".
-
First, let me tell you you are not a noob, you are a newb (or newbie). The former is a derogative term normally used for people who not only don't know about things, but also behave in an unappropriate way considering their lack of knowledge. The latter may know just as little, but strives to improve and do things right within the limits of his abilities. That's what you do, and there is nothing to be ashamed of - everyone started out as a newb at some point. And I am quite sure nobody here has any problems helping out someone willing to learn. Ok, that may just be one way of interpreting the variant spellings, but I found that this understanding is generally widespread. I do agree that many of the questions I see posted could be answered satisfactorily by a simple search on CP or the interwebs. That said, sometimes, when I have a question about a field that I have absolutely zip knowledge of, I find it hard to select the relevant answers from the hundreds of pages of search results, leaving me confused on a heap of contradictory and often misleading information. As a result, I do find it easier to ask on an expert forum such as CP and discuss the answers with their authors to better understand the reaasoning and help decide the value of the information. Also, I grew up in a time when there was no internet to search for fast answers, instead I had to read books and manuals, and sometimes even check out a library :omg: ! But I do understand that nowadays children grow up with the knowledge that the internet is just around the corner, and the answer is just a posting away. That is quite a different mentality, and I do not claim I completely understand the way these 'young people' think, but it appears many of them grew up with the realisation that asking on a forum gets more relevant results, and with less effort than searching the web. For these reasons I do feel some sympathy even for requests like those you mentioned. When I do post answers though, I usually try to give an explanation rather than an actual solution (although I might do both). Probably I'm more tolerant than others. I tend to assume the best intentions, and even if appearances hint otherwise, I might take the time to point out how best to search for appropriate answers, or why many people may find their way of asking offensive. (ok, you may find little of that from me on this forum, I'm just not very active here, but that's what I do just about anywhere else)
Stefan63 wrote:
realisation that asking on a forum gets more relevant results, and with less effort
Hey, maybe you hit the nail on the head. Sticks and stones... So, call me a boor or another "b" word that rhymes with noob, I'll get my answer before you! That is the difference. Young people want answers. I need to answer a test correctly, gimme the answers. Gimme the answers to the questions I'll get in an interview. I'm good at getting answers, gimme the job. (OK, I'm a little guilty here too.) When I grew up, understanding was important. Now, it's why should I understand, if I can just get the answers. PS I'd seen the different spellings of noob, before. Didn't realize there were different connotations based on behavior, just thought the behavior was bad (and normal.) for a lot of newbies. Thanks.
-
Stefan63 wrote:
realisation that asking on a forum gets more relevant results, and with less effort
Hey, maybe you hit the nail on the head. Sticks and stones... So, call me a boor or another "b" word that rhymes with noob, I'll get my answer before you! That is the difference. Young people want answers. I need to answer a test correctly, gimme the answers. Gimme the answers to the questions I'll get in an interview. I'm good at getting answers, gimme the job. (OK, I'm a little guilty here too.) When I grew up, understanding was important. Now, it's why should I understand, if I can just get the answers. PS I'd seen the different spellings of noob, before. Didn't realize there were different connotations based on behavior, just thought the behavior was bad (and normal.) for a lot of newbies. Thanks.
KP Lee wrote:
PS I'd seen the different spellings of noob, before. Didn't realize there were different connotations based on behavior, just thought the behavior was bad (and normal.) for a lot of newbies. Thanks.
Check out the urban dictionary on 'newbie'. I believe the variant spellings (and implied name callings) are particularly common in online games and forums dealing with games, i. e. in environments with lots of ... unqalified contributions. In technical forums the use of these terms is generally discouraged; not that there are specific rules about them, it's just that the people who know the difference are aware of the potential misunderstanding even when using the neutral variants, and those that don't generally only know of the more or less derogative meaning, and - being civil people - avoid using them at all. :)
-
Stefan63 wrote:
realisation that asking on a forum gets more relevant results, and with less effort
Hey, maybe you hit the nail on the head. Sticks and stones... So, call me a boor or another "b" word that rhymes with noob, I'll get my answer before you! That is the difference. Young people want answers. I need to answer a test correctly, gimme the answers. Gimme the answers to the questions I'll get in an interview. I'm good at getting answers, gimme the job. (OK, I'm a little guilty here too.) When I grew up, understanding was important. Now, it's why should I understand, if I can just get the answers. PS I'd seen the different spellings of noob, before. Didn't realize there were different connotations based on behavior, just thought the behavior was bad (and normal.) for a lot of newbies. Thanks.
KP Lee wrote:
When I grew up, understanding was important.
It still is. That is why I sometimes even answer 'gimme' postings - not to actually give a finished result, but to explain how to make it. In part that's also because I'm ususally too lazy to fire up my IDE, create a new project and check if the code I have in mind actually works. :) The OP might ignore such an answer and wait for others that provide the working code, but it's always possible someone else checks out the thread in search for an answer to a similar problem, and for the benefit of these people I find that it's worth spending a few minutes explaining the basics.