Road Deaths
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There is an ever lasting drive to reduce 'Road Deaths', which is universally accepted by all to be 'Unacceptably High' Or, So they say. Nobody is standing up to the view that reductions in those levels affect people's private behaviour. The nanny state is born, safety belts are enforced, and so on, and so forth. Human Life, Human Activity, causes incidents where Humans Die. Who decides what is Acceptable. Who determines the Overal Cost of these measure. The Bottom Line is, No Trafic means No Road Deaths. The more you allow it, the more deaths will occur. I think we have already found a 'Happy Medium' Why is it decided that Road Death levels are 'Too High' :)
Bram van Kampen
Bram van Kampen wrote:
Why is it decided that Road Death levels are 'Too High'
There is a growing segment of our society that believes in the fiction of a risk-free existence, and a great many politicians who are only to happy to feed their fears and promise instant fixes. So long as people continue to elect con men to high office, and continue to watch mainstream news (which thrives on creating fear), the trend will continue. By the way, the only way they were able to pass a seatbelt law in California - the first, I believe - was to promise that it will never become an offense that an officer could stop you for. It was to be enforced only if you were stopped for an unrelated offense, and the cop happened to notice that you weren't wearing a seat belt. That, like all such promises, lasted only long enough for the voters to forget the promise, about two election cycles. Such is the value of all promises to limit such "small restrictions" on liberty. The end goal is to control every aspect of our lives, and the bad guys are going to win in the long run.
Will Rogers never met me.
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
Why is it decided that Road Death levels are 'Too High'
There is a growing segment of our society that believes in the fiction of a risk-free existence, and a great many politicians who are only to happy to feed their fears and promise instant fixes. So long as people continue to elect con men to high office, and continue to watch mainstream news (which thrives on creating fear), the trend will continue. By the way, the only way they were able to pass a seatbelt law in California - the first, I believe - was to promise that it will never become an offense that an officer could stop you for. It was to be enforced only if you were stopped for an unrelated offense, and the cop happened to notice that you weren't wearing a seat belt. That, like all such promises, lasted only long enough for the voters to forget the promise, about two election cycles. Such is the value of all promises to limit such "small restrictions" on liberty. The end goal is to control every aspect of our lives, and the bad guys are going to win in the long run.
Will Rogers never met me.
I would be curious to see statistics on head injuries from motorcycle crashes in the US... it's been an offence to ride without an approved helmet here for as long as I've been riding (probably as long as I've been alive), yet over there it seems to be optional at best...
Reminiscing just isn't what it used to be!! Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
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Luc Pattyn wrote:
society as a whole isn't getting any better from them.
Not necessarily true. While the cost may be high, the value of removing idiots from the gene pool is inestimable. We should probably, if anything, lower the legal driving age to allow nature a few more opportunities to cull the herd before they can breed.
Will Rogers never met me.
That reasoning is OK with me as long as it only matters to the idiots themselves, but as soon as they might remove innocent people from the gene pool in the same crash, we're having a different issue altogether.
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There is an ever lasting drive to reduce 'Road Deaths', which is universally accepted by all to be 'Unacceptably High' Or, So they say. Nobody is standing up to the view that reductions in those levels affect people's private behaviour. The nanny state is born, safety belts are enforced, and so on, and so forth. Human Life, Human Activity, causes incidents where Humans Die. Who decides what is Acceptable. Who determines the Overal Cost of these measure. The Bottom Line is, No Trafic means No Road Deaths. The more you allow it, the more deaths will occur. I think we have already found a 'Happy Medium' Why is it decided that Road Death levels are 'Too High' :)
Bram van Kampen
FILETIME to time_t
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | WhoIncludes - Analyzing C++ include file hierarchy -
There is an ever lasting drive to reduce 'Road Deaths', which is universally accepted by all to be 'Unacceptably High' Or, So they say. Nobody is standing up to the view that reductions in those levels affect people's private behaviour. The nanny state is born, safety belts are enforced, and so on, and so forth. Human Life, Human Activity, causes incidents where Humans Die. Who decides what is Acceptable. Who determines the Overal Cost of these measure. The Bottom Line is, No Trafic means No Road Deaths. The more you allow it, the more deaths will occur. I think we have already found a 'Happy Medium' Why is it decided that Road Death levels are 'Too High' :)
Bram van Kampen
Bram van Kampen Dexter wrote:
I need to kill!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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There is an ever lasting drive to reduce 'Road Deaths', which is universally accepted by all to be 'Unacceptably High' Or, So they say. Nobody is standing up to the view that reductions in those levels affect people's private behaviour. The nanny state is born, safety belts are enforced, and so on, and so forth. Human Life, Human Activity, causes incidents where Humans Die. Who decides what is Acceptable. Who determines the Overal Cost of these measure. The Bottom Line is, No Trafic means No Road Deaths. The more you allow it, the more deaths will occur. I think we have already found a 'Happy Medium' Why is it decided that Road Death levels are 'Too High' :)
Bram van Kampen
Despite increased volumes Ireland in 2010 was one the safest year in alomst 50 in terms of numbers killed. That said the 'awareness' campaign does little more than terrorize the parents of young drivers - or at least it terrorizes me as the parent of a young male driver. Then there are suicides. Many of those single vehicle accidents where the lone male occupant is killed have nothing to do with driving and should not be counted among accidental road deaths. The car has merely taken the place of a rope, a river or a gun.
Ger
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There is an ever lasting drive to reduce 'Road Deaths', which is universally accepted by all to be 'Unacceptably High' Or, So they say. Nobody is standing up to the view that reductions in those levels affect people's private behaviour. The nanny state is born, safety belts are enforced, and so on, and so forth. Human Life, Human Activity, causes incidents where Humans Die. Who decides what is Acceptable. Who determines the Overal Cost of these measure. The Bottom Line is, No Trafic means No Road Deaths. The more you allow it, the more deaths will occur. I think we have already found a 'Happy Medium' Why is it decided that Road Death levels are 'Too High' :)
Bram van Kampen
Personally, I would ban driver seatbelts and airbags, and fit a compulsory very sharp six inch knife to the middle of teh steering wheel, pointed right at the driver. Add a big red warning "If you have an accident, YOU will die". After a few months, road deaths will go right down, and driving standards / politeness will improve drastically. Of course, in the first few months, we will loose a quite a few gene-pool-rejects, but think of it as "Evolution in Action"!
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
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There is an ever lasting drive to reduce 'Road Deaths', which is universally accepted by all to be 'Unacceptably High' Or, So they say. Nobody is standing up to the view that reductions in those levels affect people's private behaviour. The nanny state is born, safety belts are enforced, and so on, and so forth. Human Life, Human Activity, causes incidents where Humans Die. Who decides what is Acceptable. Who determines the Overal Cost of these measure. The Bottom Line is, No Trafic means No Road Deaths. The more you allow it, the more deaths will occur. I think we have already found a 'Happy Medium' Why is it decided that Road Death levels are 'Too High' :)
Bram van Kampen
If there was such a wish in the British govenment then they would not be looking at making the MOT biannual and would set a miniumum standard for road surfaces AND enforce it there is a idea that reducing speed will stop deaths, it will to some degree but the bigger point is that it doesnot have a big impact on the number of accidents it just means that those who would have died may now live as paraplegic/coma victims. the biggest cause of accident is always an driver exceeding his ability, that does not mean speeding as some drivers are very capable of exceeding thier ability well within the speed limits.
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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If there was such a wish in the British govenment then they would not be looking at making the MOT biannual and would set a miniumum standard for road surfaces AND enforce it there is a idea that reducing speed will stop deaths, it will to some degree but the bigger point is that it doesnot have a big impact on the number of accidents it just means that those who would have died may now live as paraplegic/coma victims. the biggest cause of accident is always an driver exceeding his ability, that does not mean speeding as some drivers are very capable of exceeding thier ability well within the speed limits.
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
Bergholt Stuttley Johnson wrote:
as some drivers are very capable of exceeding thier ability before they enter the car
FTFY!
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
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If there was such a wish in the British govenment then they would not be looking at making the MOT biannual and would set a miniumum standard for road surfaces AND enforce it there is a idea that reducing speed will stop deaths, it will to some degree but the bigger point is that it doesnot have a big impact on the number of accidents it just means that those who would have died may now live as paraplegic/coma victims. the biggest cause of accident is always an driver exceeding his ability, that does not mean speeding as some drivers are very capable of exceeding thier ability well within the speed limits.
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
Rosemary Smith once told a judge while on a speeding rap that she was safer at 80mph than he was at 40mph. Needless to say it didn't do her defence any good. I am more than 20 years driving accident free, and on occasion take my speed up to an over 100mph, but you will also find me doing 20 Mph's where conditions dictate.
Ger
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Luc Pattyn wrote:
we wouldn't want them to order pedestrians to wear safety helmets when crossing a road.
How about running, or cycling - oh wait they already do for that. While I agree with seat belts and almost agree with cycle helmets I do fear western civilisation is becoming a complete PC, nanny state. I'm a great believer in Darwin, you want to go car surfing, go right ahead, as long as it is fatal then I have no problems with that, the collateral damage and expense is a problem though.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
The problem isn't the idiots who kill themselves. It's those who kill other people, and those who almost, but not quite, kill themselves and end up severely disabled and living off of my tax dollars for the rest of their lives.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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I would be curious to see statistics on head injuries from motorcycle crashes in the US... it's been an offence to ride without an approved helmet here for as long as I've been riding (probably as long as I've been alive), yet over there it seems to be optional at best...
Reminiscing just isn't what it used to be!! Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
I'd like to see the stats here too. Morons are rolling back the helmet laws on a per state basis. Although as mentioned elsewhere I'm more concerned about the morons who end up severely injured or permanently disabled than those who successfully off themselves.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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Personally, I would ban driver seatbelts and airbags, and fit a compulsory very sharp six inch knife to the middle of teh steering wheel, pointed right at the driver. Add a big red warning "If you have an accident, YOU will die". After a few months, road deaths will go right down, and driving standards / politeness will improve drastically. Of course, in the first few months, we will loose a quite a few gene-pool-rejects, but think of it as "Evolution in Action"!
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
Tried to counter the uni. If I remember correctly, George Carlin had a similar idea.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" — Hunter S. Thompson
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Luc Pattyn wrote:
society as a whole isn't getting any better from them.
Not necessarily true. While the cost may be high, the value of removing idiots from the gene pool is inestimable. We should probably, if anything, lower the legal driving age to allow nature a few more opportunities to cull the herd before they can breed.
Will Rogers never met me.
Mountain climbing for toddlers! Spelunking tweens!!
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!" — Hunter S. Thompson
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Traffic accidents obviously have a big negative effect on society; they cause grief, loss of time, and loss of money. While some money is moving from one party to another (insurance companies, car repair shops, social services, hospitals), society as a whole isn't getting any better from them. Counting Road Deaths is an easy measure for the number and severity of traffic accidents, and it appeals to a lot of people. When the numbers are rising, or are higher than in neighboring countries or states, politicians see a need to take action. Which is mostly fine by me; of course there are limits, we wouldn't want them to order pedestrians to wear safety helmets when crossing a road. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
Well, In Northern Ireland, something like that happened recently. A Law was passed here some time ago by the Local Assembly, imposing a £ 50.00 fine on 'Cyclists' not wearing a Helmet. It was clarified that in the case of minors, the fine would be raised against the Parents. So,Here, my three year old Step Granddaughter is flouting the law by being on her tricicle on the footpath in front of the house, without a Helmet. It is just another example of polititians here not understanding policeing issues. There are no reports of incidences yet, presumably because even the PSNI considers it daft, but the reality in Northern Ireland is, that conceivably police, while executing a 'raid' at one house, could ultimately extend the raid on another, because a tree year old child was found cycling without a prescribed helmet. You will find this hard to believe if you live Outside Northern Ireland. If you live within it, yo will know EXACTLY what I'm On About. Our house was broken in to by police about a year ago. For what reason ? We are not Entitled to Know, Nor entitled to recompense for te damage they caused. We are NOT political Activists, we try and run a Local Business, giving employment to several local people, of all sides of the community. We have Always supported the Police (Often as the better evil). hence even when the Police did not Support Us, So, Where do you go! from there.
Bram van Kampen
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Well, I think as a whole society should be concerned about the (not so) hidden costs of traffic crashes - hospitals, time off work, rehabilitation, reduced work capacity in the long term etc... The advent of seatbelts has saved countless lives - even a relatively low speed crash can be fatal without a seatbelt on... probably not your best choice for an example.
Reminiscing just isn't what it used to be!! Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
Hi Well, your answer dodges the discussion, Namely, What is an Acceptable level of Road Deaths (Throw in Injuries Later) Take 0 PA, 10 PA 100 PA, Up to 100000 P.A., taking into account that each Road Safety measure taken has a cost to the community as a whole in increased prices for distribuion costs of goods, delivery of service, etc. As a Country we need a genuine discussion about the 'Trade Offs' between the options. The current populist move by politicians to reduce Road Deaths to zero, is both un-realistic, and comes at a high price to the wider economy. Regards, Bram. :)
Bram van Kampen
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Hi Well, your answer dodges the discussion, Namely, What is an Acceptable level of Road Deaths (Throw in Injuries Later) Take 0 PA, 10 PA 100 PA, Up to 100000 P.A., taking into account that each Road Safety measure taken has a cost to the community as a whole in increased prices for distribuion costs of goods, delivery of service, etc. As a Country we need a genuine discussion about the 'Trade Offs' between the options. The current populist move by politicians to reduce Road Deaths to zero, is both un-realistic, and comes at a high price to the wider economy. Regards, Bram. :)
Bram van Kampen
I didn't specifically avoid the rhetorical question you asked, I addressed the nanny-state issue of seatbelts... which have been proven to save lives... As a society, we will never, ever have a zero road toll while there remain people using roads - it's not physically possible. Should we strive to reduce road deaths? Yes we should. Should there be enforcement of road rules? Yes there should. Do I agree with speed cameras? No I don't. Do I agree with police actually intercepting speeding motorists, putting the wind up them and/or giving them a ticket? Yes I do. There you go. ;-)
Reminiscing just isn't what it used to be!! Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
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We should at least lower the limit of dangerous activities to just below the age a person is capable of breeding. That way, nature has a chance at them before they have a chance and propagating idiocy. :rolleyes:
This is not the age of reason, this is the age of flummery, and the day of the devious approach. Reason’s gone into the backrooms where it works to devise means by which people can be induced to emote in the desired direction.
There probably are many ways to propagate idiocy without procreating... I trust the Soapbox holds many examples. :laugh:
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
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I didn't specifically avoid the rhetorical question you asked, I addressed the nanny-state issue of seatbelts... which have been proven to save lives... As a society, we will never, ever have a zero road toll while there remain people using roads - it's not physically possible. Should we strive to reduce road deaths? Yes we should. Should there be enforcement of road rules? Yes there should. Do I agree with speed cameras? No I don't. Do I agree with police actually intercepting speeding motorists, putting the wind up them and/or giving them a ticket? Yes I do. There you go. ;-)
Reminiscing just isn't what it used to be!! Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
_Damian S_ wrote:
Should we strive to reduce road deaths? Yes we should.
Yes, as a General principle, I Agree. The question is, At what Price. You get your bread cheap in the local Supermarket, because it is delivered there at say 5 in the morning, by a van doing 45 mph. If he were to comply with the speed limits, the company would need more vans to deliver the same goods. What is getting up my nose in a big way, is a Local Advertising Campaign about being over the speed limit only a Little Bit. It shows a Police officer sitting in a chair asking what to say to the relatives of victims. " Am I going to say, He is only a Little bit Death, because the Driver was a Little bith over the Speed Limit..." I Class this as Absolute Bunkum. The first issue that arrises there is Accuracy of measurement. This was brought to a head some 10 years ago when a Driver in the Republic of Ireland desided to fight it All the way to the european courts. The courts found First of all, that Speed limits measured in MPH where inconsistent with european rules on weights and measures. Otherwise, MPH was NOT a Legal measure to define speed in. At the time it was also given a 10 year period in which to sort that, and they have, ROI Speed Limits are now in Kilometres per Hour. Furthermore, it was found that european roadworthiness requirements for vehicles included a 5% accuracy in speedometer readings. There is also another European requirement for the accuracy of Speed testing Equipment, of 2% It was noted that the MOT Test in Southern Ireland did not include a Spedometer Test,(As it equally does not in the UK) Bottom Line:- It will be a Hard job to convict anyone for doing 31 MPH in a 30 MPH Zone :) Bram
Bram van Kampen
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Bram van Kampen wrote:
Why is it decided that Road Death levels are 'Too High'
There is a growing segment of our society that believes in the fiction of a risk-free existence, and a great many politicians who are only to happy to feed their fears and promise instant fixes. So long as people continue to elect con men to high office, and continue to watch mainstream news (which thrives on creating fear), the trend will continue. By the way, the only way they were able to pass a seatbelt law in California - the first, I believe - was to promise that it will never become an offense that an officer could stop you for. It was to be enforced only if you were stopped for an unrelated offense, and the cop happened to notice that you weren't wearing a seat belt. That, like all such promises, lasted only long enough for the voters to forget the promise, about two election cycles. Such is the value of all promises to limit such "small restrictions" on liberty. The end goal is to control every aspect of our lives, and the bad guys are going to win in the long run.
Will Rogers never met me.
You got my point! Seatbelt laws wew introduced in Holland in i think 1972. It was seen by many at the time as the Thin end of the Wedge.I was Against it at the Time. Not the wearing of Seatbelts, mind you, (that is a Good Idea), but to make it a Legal requirement. Terms like " The Nanny State" were introduced that time. Politicians here get on the bandwagon about Road Deaths being 'Unacceptably High', promising between the lines that when elected, they will bring it down to Zero, or at least reduce it by 10%. As a society, we need to take a step back. We Need to decide, No Road Deaths, but Also, No Cars, No Horses, No Transport of any kind, Forbid people to walk, just in case they trip and break their neck, (This means, No Supermarkets, None of the things we are used to. That will All have to Stop.) Not going to happen, but No politician puts it that way. So, Let's have a world wide discussion about what 'Acceptable' Levels of Road Deaths are, (i.e. The Price we as a Society are willing to pay) and Injuries, and avoid stupid measures which criminalise sections of law abiding people, slows down the economy if people actually followed the letter of the law, and is nothing more than a Futile attempt, to bring Death and Injury rates down to Zero. It is proposed here now (in Northern Ireland) to start Prosecuting people for doing say 30.0001 miles in a 30 mile Zone. The Mantra is along the lines of: "You are a Little Bit over the Speed Limit. Will I Tell the Victims Family after an accident that the person is only a Little Bit Death" This is Bunkum designed by people who have no concept of the real world. Bram.
Bram van Kampen
