Why is it that we don't have a FairTax in the USA? Would it work in other countries too?
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Dalek Dave wrote:
I earn an extra £100, I get to keep £48 of it.
but you already kept 100% of the "extra" money from the bracket that that other "someone" didn't earn enough to break out of. right?
No, I earn over the upper threshold, so pay 40% on that, plus 12% National Insurance, thus losing 52% of any more money I earn.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
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fat_boy wrote:
Dont forget some products are alreay VAT exempt because they are basics.
Not o'er here, lowest VAT is 6%, and that goes for basic stuff. The proposed plan was to abandon the lower rates and put a 19% on everything.
fat_boy wrote:
All that needs to be done to keep the tax fair ist to set the goods that are exempt at a reasonable level. Basic food stufs, medcines, hygene products and so on.
..you might also want to explain how you think that's more fair than the current system. Next, I'd like to see you talk your way out of inflation.
fat_boy wrote:
The rich wont be let off either sicne the products they buy, big cars, boats, big houses, eating out and so on are going to get a big increase in price.
However, because of the self collecting nature of the tax there will be no more tax evasion.
You're certainly not Dutch! You can build a career on tax-evasion here :)
fat_boy wrote:
Its a good system, do the maths, set the figures as required and everyones happy.
Yes, for a while - until the worker notices that the rich man doesn't pay the taxes when buying that yacht - it's simply leased and billed to the wifes' company. ..and that's when the guillotines come out :)
I are Troll :suss:
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
..you might also want to explain how you think that's more fair than the current system. Next, I'd like to see you talk your way out of inflation.
I am not saying its fairer, I am saying its cheaper. One tax, one agency, 95% less paperwork and staff involved. You can see the obvious saving here. As for inflation another idea I have is to have a compulsory payment into a personal pension scheme, owned by you, that cant be taken away. The amount paid is variable, set by the government, and is a way of absorbing excess M3 (money in peoples pockets) that leads to inflation. Current thatcherits, Reganite ecconomics uses interest rates to do thi, but that is stupid because it needs an indebted public.
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Yes, for a while - until the worker notices that the rich man doesn't pay the taxes when buying that yacht - it's simply leased and billed to the wifes' company.
Not so, you cant buy the yacht without paying VAT on it. Whether it is a company that buys it or the man himself it makes no difference (because the company could pay the man a dividend, which would be tax exempt under the new scheme). Also paying tax or not is voluntary. If you choose to live frugally, you dont pay tax, if you chose to live luxuriously, you do. How much more fair can you get than that?
Dr D Evans "The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s" financialpost
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Someone earns an extra £100 a year and gets to keep all of it. I earn an extra £100, I get to keep £48 of it. Hardly fair, considering how much tax I am already paying. If there is to be fairness, then tax all at the same level.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
Someone earns an extra £100 a year and gets to keep all of it support himself and his family on less than you have to live on.
I earn an extra £100, I get to keep £48 of it yet another £48 more than the other poor sucker and his family.Dalek Dave wrote:
If there is to be fairness, then tax all at the same level.
Which means that the lower wages will have to rise, to prevent poverty and starvation, so prices will rise dramatically (and disproportionately, because prices greedy w@nkers will always put prices up more than they need to -- because they deserve the extra, free money, obviously), and you will end up paying a lot more for goods and services than you do now. For an accountant and politician, you're pretty piss poor at basic economics.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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No, I earn over the upper threshold, so pay 40% on that, plus 12% National Insurance, thus losing 52% of any more money I earn.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
losing 52% of any more money I earn
Paying taxes != losing money. Taxes pay for the roads, the schools you send your children to, the soldiers that defend your freedom, the courts that defend your rights, etc. Tax is an investment in society, not a loss.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Dalek Dave wrote:
losing 52% of any more money I earn
Paying taxes != losing money. Taxes pay for the roads, the schools you send your children to, the soldiers that defend your freedom, the courts that defend your rights, etc. Tax is an investment in society, not a loss.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
I have no problem at all with paying for Policemen, Firemen, Doctors and Nurses, Soldiers and the Legal system. I object to BILLIONS being given to countries that have nuclear weapons or space programs, BILLIONS being given to the EU so that they can compete against us, BILLIONS being pissed away on social security whilst there are still job vacancies for the indolent, supine masses. If you like giving to these people, then do so from a charitable standpoint, do not have the money stolen from my pocket to give to those that cannot be arsed to do something to help themselves.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Someone earns an extra £100 a year and gets to keep all of it support himself and his family on less than you have to live on.
I earn an extra £100, I get to keep £48 of it yet another £48 more than the other poor sucker and his family.Dalek Dave wrote:
If there is to be fairness, then tax all at the same level.
Which means that the lower wages will have to rise, to prevent poverty and starvation, so prices will rise dramatically (and disproportionately, because prices greedy w@nkers will always put prices up more than they need to -- because they deserve the extra, free money, obviously), and you will end up paying a lot more for goods and services than you do now. For an accountant and politician, you're pretty piss poor at basic economics.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
So if all the business men think it is not worth the effort, who will employ these wonderful magic people at the bottom, the salts of the earth, the generators of so much wealth for the country? Oh yes, no-one. So then who will pay for them? It is cheaper to have them working than doled.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
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So if all the business men think it is not worth the effort, who will employ these wonderful magic people at the bottom, the salts of the earth, the generators of so much wealth for the country? Oh yes, no-one. So then who will pay for them? It is cheaper to have them working than doled.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
For me, anyone whose credo is "What's mine is mine, and **** everyone else" has no place in civilised society. The right wing should buy their own planet, somewhere else, where they can steal from each other, sh1t on each other, and stab each other in the back to their hearts' content.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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For me, anyone whose credo is "What's mine is mine, and **** everyone else" has no place in civilised society. The right wing should buy their own planet, somewhere else, where they can steal from each other, sh1t on each other, and stab each other in the back to their hearts' content.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Despite your politics, you should still learn to use maths. Employing people is still better for the country than havin them on the dole. Firstly, there is the not paying them the dole and other benefits, secondly there is the direct tax from their salary and thirdly there is the indirect taxation arising from their purchases and provision of others salaries. This more than offsets any small percentage increase in the salary of those who can employ them.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
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Despite your politics, you should still learn to use maths. Employing people is still better for the country than havin them on the dole. Firstly, there is the not paying them the dole and other benefits, secondly there is the direct tax from their salary and thirdly there is the indirect taxation arising from their purchases and provision of others salaries. This more than offsets any small percentage increase in the salary of those who can employ them.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
Dalek Dave wrote:
Employing people is still better for the country than havin them on the dole.
So if you pay five million low-paid people 100 more per year, you can almost certainly guarantee that they will spend their money in this country and pay taxes on it, whereas if you instead give all that money in huge amounts to fifty people who are already stinking rich, you can absolutely guarantee that they will hide as much of it as possible from the tax-man, off-shore huge chunks of it, and spend the bulk of it on foreign goods and services. Lots of people buying lots of products is what makes an economy strong. Maintaining huge gaps between the rich and poor, and large numbers of poor, impoverishes not only the ethics and morality of the society, but screws up its economy and makes it a less safe place to live -- the worst crimes are committed by people who have nothing to lose. Of course, you only ever hear the tory side of things, so you probably actually believe the cr@p you're spouting, but that doesn't make it right, and doesn't make it make sense.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Employing people is still better for the country than havin them on the dole.
So if you pay five million low-paid people 100 more per year, you can almost certainly guarantee that they will spend their money in this country and pay taxes on it, whereas if you instead give all that money in huge amounts to fifty people who are already stinking rich, you can absolutely guarantee that they will hide as much of it as possible from the tax-man, off-shore huge chunks of it, and spend the bulk of it on foreign goods and services. Lots of people buying lots of products is what makes an economy strong. Maintaining huge gaps between the rich and poor, and large numbers of poor, impoverishes not only the ethics and morality of the society, but screws up its economy and makes it a less safe place to live -- the worst crimes are committed by people who have nothing to lose. Of course, you only ever hear the tory side of things, so you probably actually believe the cr@p you're spouting, but that doesn't make it right, and doesn't make it make sense.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Without the people employing them, they won't be getting the £100 per year more, will they? Despite what your communist brain-washers have told you, high earners create jobs and wealth. What happens when they are over taxed? Look what happened in the 70's when Labour once more went on the Tax-Theft spree, the brain drain, money moving out of UK, tax take reduced, unemployment, and Britain runs to the IMF. Low taxation is the key to a successful economy. People get their education for free, some work hard, some doss about and act like wankers. It is their choice, so at the end of it some people will earn more and some will earn less. Like all things in life, the harder you work, the more you get. To sit on one's arse and expect society to pay for your wastrel lifestyle is wrong. I wasn't born into money, I had to earn it, but by hard work and dedication I have. If others don't wish to do that, so be it, but why should I pay for it?
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]